Re: [Community] Griefers solution

[Ixirar]

this isn't about anyone ordering you to do something.

It is more of an obligation

Does not compute.

[Drustai]

I will repeat my suggestion: Turn of the " Appear on the Map" option in TRP2 when rping ouside. This because the harrassers are using them to track us and hunts us, hence the surprise attacks every time.

I think this is a more contructive suggestion than blueshielding, eventhough I aggree with it and have ordered the wardens to rp at the Acherus

/who on an alt, works just as well.

Then they have a zone name and number of player, but no specific location, marked like an X on a Treasure map

They use tracking food and hunters to locate players in that zone.

ABoC has three things really going for them:

1) The inability for players to flag 'anonymous' and not show up on /who
2) The ability to track other players
3) Flying mounts enabling rapid scouting of zones

ABoC would not be an issue if not for these. Sure, they'd still be able to gank, but it'd require a much greater workload to do so. TRP2 map tracking makes it even easier, sure, but disabling it does not make them unable to find your exact location.

Heck, even anti-tracking options do not ultimately stop them. The other day the Draenor RPers were caught in Zangarmarsh despite me having prepared anti-tracking potions for the lot of them. /who revealed we were there, and aerial scouting revealed our location.


Now, to get some thoughts I've been having about the ganking issues off my chest:

Regarding the 'proposal'. I don't see the point in being dramatic about it. I'm sorry, but this is not a war campaign. It is not something that you can achieve victory in. ABoC as a guild has grown too large, it has a very active and charismatic leader, a good 'spy network', and there is an expansion coming in a few months that will expand the amount of world PvP available due to cross-realming. ABoC does not need to kill RPers to continue to exist.

Can you reduce their ability to gank you by staying in blueshielded areas? Yes. But that is not going to make them 'go away'. You're going to have to learn to live with them. This means keeping event organization to in-game, instead of the forums (and even this is not guaranteed to work) and reducing the global amount of contested-region RP. It is largely hubs that get ganked, rather than lone contested RP events (unless they are announced and/or taking place in those hubs). Thus, the less people RPing in a contested region on a regular basis, the less reason ABoC will have to continually check them... for example, the draenei were able to do several weeks of gank-free Zangarmarsh RP because it had not been an 'active' zone and therefore ABoC had no reason to check it. Now that they are regularly checking it, we are leaving the area for the time being to allow things to 'cool down'. Therefore, cities should be the daily RP hubs, the headquarters of each guild. Contested region RP can still happen, but it should only be for specific goals, not as a regular thing.


As far as IC response to the ganks: I agree with Amaryl on this. As much as I do not like fighting OOCers as it is boring (if I want straight up PvP I'll go to a BG), I do miss the days when every enemy attack was seen as IC, regardless of which guild was directing it. Not only did this add 'spice' to the RP scenario, but it meant that, in the event of you being defeated, you had either A) IC reason to call reinforcements, or B ) IC reason to retreat. At the moment, we either call reinforcements OOCly or retreat OOCly, both of which break immersion far more than the actual ganking itself. I do not agree with ABoC's ganking, but I do agree with their comments on the fact that we have become far too stiff in regards to what we are willing to accept in our RP. The community has grown far too scripted over the years. Gilneas and Arathor should be RPing as if their lands have been beset upon by a massive Horde invasion, and been forced to retreat to allied ground to lick their wounds and prepare a counter invasion. Instead, the withdrawal is completely OOC and disconnected.

In my opinion, if you are in a contested region, you should be expecting to get attacked. You should be willing to respond to an attack as IC, attempt to repel that attack IC, and, if you cannot repel it, then retreat to safe ground IC (there is no shame in retreating from a battle you cannot win) even if it prevents the completion of some scripted event, as the withdrawal itself can be fun RP. Additionally, people need to learn to level/grind PvP gear and, more importantly, learn to fucking transmog already (God, I hate RPers who still do not do this and then bitch about being ganked). Most of the time, ABoC easily manages to take out groups of RPers much larger than them due to those two simple facts (not to mention, people who just roll over and allow themselves to die instead of fighting back). Sure, you don't have to keep fighting back if you lose, you can retreat if you're beaten, but at least try to repel the first attempt instead of submitting and allowing yourself to die.

Note: I am not proposing a 'fight back' mentality against ABoC, and agree with the general idea of daily RP being relegated to 'safe areas'. Merely that if you do RP in a contested region, then don't be silly about it--learn to defend yourselves, and be willing to accept the attack as IC so as to limit the disruption caused.


Regarding blueshielding: Frankly I loathe it. There was a time when blueshielding was seen as a major taboo on this server. Nowadays, hardly anyone flags and this actually causes more damage than everyone flagging. I can't count the amount of times I've been ganked and killed by a lone rogue because everyone around me simply 'ignored' it and left their blueshields on. That's the only reason I no longer flag, myself--I was tired of my own allies allowing me to die.

If people want to not blueshield... then more power to them. They should not be forced to blueshield if they do not want to. It's their choice. This proposal is not a directive, not an order. It is a suggestion. People do not have to follow it. A couple people not blueshielding will not make ABoC 'not leave'. They are going to be staying on this server, like it or not. This proposal will not force them off, it will only limit the damage they do. If people wish to 'take the risk', then they have every right to. They are not 'jeopardizing' the community, or the proposal.

[Krogon Devilstep]

All this debate is wonderful.

However, mis-placed. This Thread wasnt born to give you somewhere to discuss differing opinions on the matter, it was created to give some suggestions to people who cant cope with the constant ganking and RP interuption.

believe it or not, i dont enjoy having every event i create ruined, every Social grouping we organise delayed or interupted, i dont enjoy corpse running constantly Because a small minority Hide behind the server rule set and launch a personal crusade Against Roleplayers with the intetion of purely disrupting roleplay. Day in, Day out, every single night for weeks now, Its Not w-pvp... please understand this, W-pvp is player Vs player, This is Idiots Vs Roleplay.

I and many others dont want our Roleplay disrupted anymore, so we adapt.

And if nobody else wants to go through this, and your suffering the same way as some northern guilds, Consider the suggestions in the original post.

If you arent effected by this, do whatever you like.

[Raenmar]

Sup with the selfish attitudes towards WPVP? Not blue-shielding in a non-contested zone means even the people who go to non-contested zones so their RP isn't fucked up end up with Horde running around and the people they're RPing with getting killed and having banners planted in them.

[Ixirar]

Make an initiative to not RP with PVP Flagged people then! Please! Do it! Split the community up EVEN MORE.

I bet Faylum isn't reading all of this. I also am sure there's no way he's laughing his ass off at it because you're being fucking pathetic about this.

[Krogon Devilstep]

Make an initiative to not RP with PVP Flagged people then! Please! Do it! Split the community up EVEN MORE.

I bet Faylum isn't reading all of this. I also am sure there's no way he's laughing his ass off at it because you're being fucking pathetic about this.

or you know, calm down.

your being far too dramatic...

[Vaell]

Make an initiative to not RP with PVP Flagged people then! Please! Do it! Split the community up EVEN MORE.

I bet Faylum isn't reading all of this. I also am sure there's no way he's laughing his ass off at it because you're being fucking pathetic about this.

<-- Blue shield
<-- PvP flagged.

I rest my case.

[Raenmar]

I bet Faylum isn't reading all of this. I also am sure there's no way he's laughing his ass off at it because you're being fucking pathetic about this.

Clearly we're the ones being pathetic.

Calm the fuck down.

[Aweng]

I and many others dont want our Roleplay disrupted anymore, so we adapt.

And if nobody else wants to go through this, and your suffering the same way as some northern guilds, Consider the suggestions in the original post.

If you arent effected by this, do whatever you like.

Exactly the point of this discussion! Seiken, the wardens are down! And I suggest you use your imagination and come RP at the hold, pretending it is Stromguard. For the sake of northern RP *puppyface*

< Signed, Hage Timberston, High Warden of the Blade >

[Grufftoof]

<Absolutely every single one of you:

Stop.

Do what you want in game with regards to this initiative.

But do try to learn to discuss things. Which means talk AND listen.

This whole thing has degraded for more than a few into spats, whines, arguments and an utter failure to contemplate any view differing to your own truths.

This is a last warning shot across your bows as a whole. The next will be in a PM. And that won't be as pleasant and fluffy as this.

Division was never much fun in maths. Division here is even worse.

Take care of yourself, and each other.>

[Beladon]

If your all knuckling down and hiding in friendly zones I strongly suggest we get the Rugby Tournament idea on the go, I was thinking 4 people per team. One team per guild

[Amaryl]

I'm not going to continue discussing it because you only take in your points. I'll give the three points I said again.

1. I am a DoL member, as you know, I enjoy PvP. This isn't 'my' way. This is me stepping back and accepting that this is a community.

You being a DoL member has nothing to do with the discussion. I understand your point. I really do, you think that pulling back, will create more RP now, and even better Rp later down the road when aboc are gone. but its based on nothing. There's no reason to believe the RP will be better suddenly when aboc is gone, if they are gone even. The only reason, to blue-shield and to get out of uncontested zones, is if you feel that you can't enjoy the game otherwise. and that's a perfectly good reason to do it, by all means you have to get the most enjoyment you can out of the game, or do something else, since this is a game.. You want the people that get ganked to have fun too, so do I.

but the thing with communities, you should be able to play together while having different interests, different goals, different standards, by doing the things that unite you, and that is in this case RP. I am a part of this community because I can play the game my way, with others who play it their way. I'm not part of this community so that others can obligate me to RP a certain way that I do not enjoy, that's selfishness of the many. its bloody elitism. If you honestly think that the best way to get rid of aboc is to blueshield and cower in places you'd rather not be, then do it.

Though there's no reason to believe that this will actually get rid of ABoC, none at all. it might, but its doubtful, there's a reason they transferred back.

This is a game, others shouldn't make you feel obligated to something you don't like. You should only adapt if you truly think its the best thing for -your- playstyle and enjoyment, as Seiken said.

2. 'Griefed' is how it is. I have, from day 1 on this server, said that PvP does not count as griefing - it may be griefing - but it doesn't count under the rules. I used the term griefed last night because that is exactly what they did to DoL. Flags, dancing, pulling guards onto the tables in front of them etc. You would have known if you were there.
^ This leads on to the point at hand. They want to grief you; if you're blueshielded, they'll grief to do so - giving you a chance to officially report.

You wrote:

Last night, DoL turned off their blueshield and at least 1 member - perhaps 2 - sent off screenshots of Aboc geniungly griefing the Garrison to Blizzard complaints.

So how am I to understand that those are completely disjointed statements in the same sentence? You start with saying they turned off their blueshields, why would I assume that the second part of the sentence isn't the result of that? Since I reckon its annoying as fuck to have horde dancing around you while you're rping safely inside your

If you get "harrassed" by flag, trains and the like, that you can report.. it won't help but it has a chance of succeeding.(but gms are soo busy it won't matter, and its not like they're going to be banned for it)

[quote=Vaell]
3. People didn't join the server expecting THIS WPvP, as I have said, this happens nowhere else and if it does, it is for a day or two. Paying 15 quid to play elsewhere is over the top, this is a logical conclusion to anyone who is here for role-play. [/quote]

When did you join wow Vaell? I've levelled in STV, i've levelled up in Hillsbrad during vanilla, I fully expected to be corpse-camped for hours on end when joining this server, or atleast didn't mind the possibility of it happening. The rules never changed, just because its easier to do stuff without travelling doesn't mean campers suddenly stopped dissappearing.

throughout DB-history there has always been a ganking-camping guild. Always. some suck, some are good, but the results are the same.

Sure nothing that matches the hilarity of the Serenity Now Raid in TBC on that funeral on some other server, but if people didn't join this server expecting Pks... well, you didn't do your research properly.

[Krogon Devilstep]

If your all knuckling down and hiding in friendly zones I strongly suggest we get the Rugby Tournament idea on the go, I was thinking 4 people per team. One team per guild

I'm considering organising a sort of... .... ...Wow Alliance side 'olympics', with archery, javeline, running, horse racing, swimming, boxing and so forth... Rugby you say?

Well i know the red blades have a similar sport we call 'battle ball', and thats dammed fun. i'l see if i can PM you the rules if it helps.

events and stuff like this rock ^^

[Lexgrad]

Yeah argue with Spock. If you all Blue shield then we can "try" starvation. If one guild feeds them then it has already failed. I know it makes you think that "stuff" shrinks when you Blueshield but it really doesnt.

OMG but i have blue shielded for x months.
OMG Im way to macho to blue shield.
OMG This is Seikain trying to take over the world one server at a time.
OMG this crushes my freedoms of speach!!!!!!

You can one day re-unblue shield.
Are you macho enough to put your ego behind unity and the good of the server
No, it was a community meeting that decided this. If I wrote the thread then the same argument would be used against me, if you wrote the thread the same argument will be used against you.
This isnt the american war of independance nor a restarting of slavery, it is just a community, asking you to turn off your PvP in the hope it makes campers bored.

Finally, the reason starvation has a good chance of working.... To get the WPvP eithout RPers will mean trollish, broken, "dark and edgy" Ganker GMs will need to work together..... Yeah.

So Turn it off, or enjoy RPing in SW forever more.

This is the bottom line, cos the Lexadin says so!

P.S. William Shatner is the best actor ever!!!!

[Lexgrad]

YES Blood bowl!!!!!!

[Krogon Devilstep]

YES Blood bowl!!!!!!

...Two Death knights enter, one Death knight leaves? This isnt the horde!

It'd be more like... Two paladins enter, one paladin leaves... the other is carried out while waving a handkerchief in a feminine manner.

but yes, a sort of sports day.

[Lexgrad]

We could get the KT to ref it.... damn neutrals.

[Jeanpierre]

No new arguments have been expressed since the third or fourth page. I doubt there's need to repeat them. There's only one thing I'd like to point out. I'm quite disappointed by the aggression and hostility displayed in this thread at times. It's almost as if they are treated like an enemy.
I can give my support to a community initiative. I can give my support to a person's own free will. But I can't give my support for the aggression towards some people for making their own choice, whichever side that is.

DoL has made a gesture towards its members, respecting their individual freedom in this initiative. If anyone has an issue with this, feel free to whisper or PM me. I will stand behind my guildies and their choice, Vaell and Amy alike. But I will not accept them being harassed for playing the game proper... And both blue-shield and PvP flag offer proper ways to play the game.

[Lorainne/Bridlington]

Amen, Jeanpierre.

[Ledgic]

The idea of stomping on anyone and saying "Play by these rules for now" is a silly one, and it was one that has never been the intention as far as I can see.

As for whether or not we're displaying unity if people choose to keep themselves flagged/RP in contested areas; I think people are going just a tad far.

Yes, I know the current situation is poor. Yes, I know we're looking for answers as to how to remedy it, but ah... I don't think we should be saying our "unity" is destroyed if some people choose to do as they've always done.

The fact is, we all have issues with what is going on currently. We're unified in that sense and I doubt we'll need much more than that. I'm all for what was discussed and defined and I'll be sticking to them as much as I feel I want to.

Still, people have gotten very ratty throughout this thread and I think all we're really doing is displaying the opposite of "unity". Stick together, play how you want to play and help those that might need it in the future. That really is all there is to it.

[Grufftoof]

... robe fiddling ...

Bridlington, I second that Amen. Padre JP has it.

Can we get a Hallelujah?!

TESTIFY.

[siegmund]

YES Blood bowl!!!!!!

...Two Death knights enter, one Death knight leaves? This isnt the horde!

It'd be more like... Two paladins enter, one paladin leaves... the other is carried out while waving a handkerchief in a feminine manner.

but yes, a sort of sports day.

We aren't Blood elves!

It's two Rogues enter, One Rogue leaves... The other is dragged out uncontentious because of food poisoning....

....Yes the other rogue poisoned the mans food, What are the odds?

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

YES Blood bowl!!!!!!

...Two Death knights enter, one Death knight leaves? This isnt the horde!

It'd be more like... Two paladins enter, one paladin leaves... the other is carried out while waving a handkerchief in a feminine manner.

but yes, a sort of sports day.

We aren't Blood elves!

It's two Rogues enter, One Rogue leaves... The other is dragged out uncontentious because of food poisoning....

....Yes the other rogue poisoned the mans food, What are the odds?

Two rogues enter, we're still here 2 hours later because they don't get out of stealth.

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