Event idea: 'The Anethionean dominion'

okay i get it, so we'll have to run free with some poetic liscence and such... i'm game ^^

Another possibility is that the people of Stormwind probably know little about the Draenei except that they are followers of the Light. The people might prefer to the benevolent Draenei than the Chapter zealots.

Seiken wrote:i have to raise this point but...

to control the city, the chapter would first need a majority force to enforce control, AND a political majority...

they currently form a minority nuisance and hold no political majority as nobody likes them...

Excellent event idea, but, er, floors.

Corleth wrote:This unique event can create great opportunity for the Chapter of Holy Anethion, to seize power over matters of faith in Stormwind.

I like the idea. Will definitely generate some interesting RP

Right, and whichever scenario will actually happen is up to the players, since we cannot actually speak on behalf of the "general populace", but only speak trough individuals in said populace. I'm game with the Chapter filling the whole the Archibishop's betrayal left behind, but I would like to see it justified as well as possible trough IC means. I'm willing to brainstrom as to how to make this possible but as for now I'll remain skeptical, seeing as the opion of most players that roleplay civilians and citizens about the Chapter isn't exactly stellar at the moment.

Valestrion wrote:Another possibility is that the people of Stormwind probably know little about the Draenei except that they are followers of the Light. The people might prefer to the benevolent Draenei than the Chapter zealots.

*cough* eurm... tell me... wasn't there.. just recently, I might add... a case of a matriarch... of the Draenei Community... a leader, no less... killing a man.. in full public view? Word does get around...

Though I still think that the Chapter should rule the city in light (ehehehe, get it?) of the Bishops betrayal. Afterall, from one of my characters points of view, it would seem that the church has fallen, the only people who are capable and pure enough to step into the limelight and fix the problem are then forced out by the council, the king, and the nobles... its all a large conspiracy to convert us to the Old Gods, i tell you!

Okay, rushed replies as I need to get some lunch in a sec.

"To make a claim that they are supposedly widely accepted by the voiceless NPC mob is a bit of a stretch.[...]If there is to be any unrest, it should come from the players, and not from the voiceless mobs."

I think an event in which we ask people outside the guild to roll level one humans with us who storm, loot and vandalize the Cathedral of Light would be a solution. It would be a good event to illustrate this unrest. I don't think we can demand from people to do so with their main characters, as those are often played as either nobility or the 'good guys'.

Valestrion wrote:1. The people assume that there is a rational explanation, such as the whole thing being some kind of ruse by the Archbishop, or he is the victim of some kind of possession.

2. The people understand that it is the Archbishop as an individual who has betrayed them, and not the Church as a whole.

3. The people believe that the Church of Light has betrayed them and turns to other Light-based Orders. This may or may not be the Chapter depending on perceptions as to what Orders are considered sufficiently independent of the Cathedral. It's possible that they might turn to Fortesgue for leadership as he is independent of the the Bishop at the Cathedral, or to JP who works with the Cathedral but is not a member of Cathedral staff.

4. They may blame the Light in general and look for new religions such as the Titans or Elune.

All these scenarios, while plausible, would not do the whole Archbishop storyline justice. The Chapter aim to capitalise on what is quite dramatic plot for Stormwind RP and shake up the status-quo of the community. I understand there some people who don't like the status-quo being shaken, but in my eyes; and in the eyes of the Chapter members whom have helped contribute to the idea of this event, conflict is good for RP and the Chapter will try, through this event and the support of the community, to cause this conflict resulting in an event more dramatic and intriguing than sweeping the Archbishop storyline under the rug with the notion that he was just 'possessed' or any of the other safer theoretical situations posted.

I should also add that point two, three and four could possibly be an outcome too. The Chapter will definitely not be in control for ever. We aren't stating that this will be the only outcome from the Archbishop storyline, but it is one of them that will hopefully get the ball rolling and influence all other decision and events after it.

Well, from what I'm gathering, the chapter wants legal authority to purge the Fallen from the church. and not usurp the legal authority in stormwind through force.

So what I see that they need is this:
- Having the Minister of Faith under their control.
- Recieve Guard rights, so they are able to "arrest and interrogate" and keep the regiment out of the loop on church matters.
- have the backing of the courts to protect their backs from all the injustices they're committing.

but for this to happen their rise to power needs to be legal, for it all to make sense. and imo, to me that's pretty plausible to achieve.

Any time power is taken it is a fight between those with power and those who want it. Popular support helps however the proles are simply tools for the use of the other two parties.

With the House of nobles backing the chapter and provided they do there best to slight the old church and go a good spin on there own then it should give them the push needed to secure some measure of power in a state of vaccum.

It would also need a loss of faith inside of the council perhaps or a split in inside it, maybe caused by Forts position (if he does go or not it could be a cause of internal stress).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_and_Practice_of_Oligarchical_Collectivism

Anethioneanism is the only other Light based religeon that is not influenced by the Church of the Holy Light within Stormwind that is widely accepted.

As the Great Elder of the Arathorian Ancestral Faith, I deny this claim. *sticks out tongue*

4. They may blame the Light in general and look for new religions such as the Titans or Elune or the Ancestors like the amazing Arathorians!.

Ok, plugging aside. I honestly think this is an amazing concept and should definately go ahead. I disagree that the Council couldn't be influenced by the House of Nobles, frankly I think that if any political body was put under so much pressure by another, something would give. Furthermore, when and if, the news gets out about Bishop I am one hundred percent sure that it would harm the image of the Church, not just him.

I will ask though, for the sake of my own Character's knowledge, what is the deal with knowing this IC? Is it common knowledge yet or what? :s

I think the idea is awesome and would love to see it happen.

And to be honest, the logic behind it is rather sound.

While it's unlikely that people lose faith in the church as a whole because of the archbishop, the highest echelon is at best suspicious. That means all senior clerics will be suspended from any position of influence. That is to say all official bishops, all official court and military chaplains, all abbots.
Not permanentaly, just pending a major SI:7 investigation. We're talking "suspend all other operations and focus on background checks and evaluations full time"-level.
The archbishop might very well be acting alone. But anyone with even a little political support is going to want this proven.
What the common people thinks here is of no relevance (though if they agree then the ones demanding it will have a lot of support for their demands).

The chapters main advantage is because they're pariahs of the church. Noone wants to deal with them. This means they're less suspect since they have no position of authority in the church, thus a grand conspiracy is less likely to have spread to them.
Their less than stellar reputation have recently gotten the best defence ever. Thanks to a certain murder they and their supporters can spin it as self-defence against religious persecution. And it'd work. It's no secret that a lot of people dislike them and that their violent nature comes from defending themselves isn't a hard sell... especially if the church leadership is in question.

This is the opportunity.

Who would use it? The House of Nobles of course.
Why? Because it is no secret that they have some of their worst enemies among the king's own advisors (the council).
They would want someone telling the king what they want among his advisors... and hey... a spot opened up due to the holder's loyalty being in question... and better yet: the man in question is one of their enemies.

So they call for his resignation and for their own candidate to be put in his place. And yes... they do have the clout to make a rather good case at pressuring the council because:

1) They could ask for more than just Fort's resignation. Jarric is their man, so he have to do what they say or get replaced. Geldar and Omanos are both paladins and will have to think about their future careers very carefully. There's plenty of underlings who want their jobs, rest assured.

2) If the council refuses them. They'll just go a step up and petition the king about it. They do have access to him after all.

The only way for this not to work logically is to either state that: the council is a ooc organisation and thus unassailable or reason that the House of Nobles do not have that kind of political influence.
I believe noone is making a case for the former. As for the latter:
The House of Nobles refused the king the money to pay the Defias with, suggesting economic control´.
The House of Nobles' leaders were the regents of the kingdom, suggesting they may up the majority of the senior positions at court.
The House of Nobles leader was appointed high commander of the northrend expedition, suggesting major military influence. His mother was the grand admiral of the alliance.
Two out of four leaders of the seventh legion bear House of Nobles titles.
The lore traditionally refers to the House of Nobles as Stormwind's goverment.
So yes, they got the political influence.

And if nothing else they'll simply tell the king: "Yes, milord. We'll support your latest tax-raise for the war without protest. All we want in return is that you appoint this man as minister of faith".

All that is needed for this to work logically is making sure the new minister of faith is beholden to the House of Nobles. They'll give him the leeway he wants if he votes the way they tell him to.
And when he turns out bad... the HoN simply joins the lot demanding for his stepping down and withdraws their support. A few speeches and funded fairs laters and common people will think as well of them as always and only their political opponents in the council will remember...

It's a win win for them.

Hopefully this can be RPed out with simply using the threat of the king and we can ooc agree to back down at this point, I would rather not see people bearing the IC word of a npc king, keep it one point before this point.

And yes, SI7 havent ooc declared there position yet, which may be a good thing for the story ofc but they will be key to this. Jarric becomming a pawn to a few different groups will be fun to RP (ie HoN SI7 and trying to not make enemies in the council). Plus after this he will need to try and save his hide

I want to summarize and expand upon some of the suggestions made yesterday in guildchat. We were on to something there, so we should really explore the points raised further!

Out-of-guild militia

I felt that role-players should be able to both side with the Chapter and the rebels, and not get forced into either role (unless you're not human!) that's why I think a temporary militia is a good idea. People will not have to leave their current guild, but can still convert to Anethionism and support the Chapter during the Dominion. The Whitecloaks had a good concept, all it took was a white cloak to be recognized as one of them. I think we should follow that example and I have found an item which could substitute the white cloak and moreover, give our militia members anonimity and no immediate IC reprimandes from their guildmembers. I present to you the White Bandit Mask.

Pros

adds choice without immediate consequence
introduces people to the Chapter in a non-threatening way
it's temporary!
Cons

someone will have to coordinate this militia
the off-side chance the militia starts to outnumber the rebellion
whitecloaks 2.0?
The rebellion leader

I recall the we all agreed that in order for this to work, we need a trustworthy and capable (in an OOC manner) leader for the rebellion. Since the rebellion must be coordinated and events for the rebels must be organized (meetings, missions etc.) we need somebody that has A. organizational talent B. communication skills C. a consistent manner of role-play (non-whimsical). We seemed to disagree wether the rebellion leader can have his own motive or hidden agenda. I for one do not think that a hidden agenda or motive is bad, aslong as it doesn't interfere with the storyline directly. A rebellion leader who is secretively a member of the Dark Sphere is something that shouldn't be an issue.

Reign of terror

Tythalos and I had some funny ideas to frame the dominion. For instance, we could use propaganda to spin events in our favor (a simple assault turns into an attack by cultists e.g.); allow usurpers that convert after being captured to walk freely, while the others are punished; hang somebody in Cathedral Square on a daily basis; lecture in Cathedral Square on a daily basis; have a town crier go about town and spread the latest news in regard to the Inquisition.

Allies

It seemed that there was some strong agreement that the Chapter should lobby with the Stormwind Regiment for aid in our struggle to purge the city of corruption and deprivation. In return, we could agree to act firmly against the criminal organizations in addition to dissidents and unbelievers. This too could drive the criminals into the arms of the rebellion, and motivated them to pick that side to protect their hides and shady businesses.

Riots

This is purely my own idea in reaction to Thelos' reply "To make a claim that they are supposedly widely accepted by the voiceless NPC mob is a bit of a stretch.[...]If there is to be any unrest, it should come from the players, and not from the voiceless mobs." I think an event in which we ask people outside the guild to roll level one humans with us who storm, loot and vandalize the Cathedral of Light would be a solution. It would be a good event to illustrate this unrest. I don't think we can demand from people to do so with their main characters, as those are often played as either nobility or the 'good guys'.

Other thing with a mob of level one chars is that there could be a massacre!

And I know who should lead the rebels... Endmyn!

This sounds like a great idea to me. With the arch-bishop bailing(even though we might not be aware of what actually went down) it should still stir up plenty.

Gahalla's convinced me on the plausibility of the scenario. If you need players to play citizen schmucks or any other roles, I'll be very interested in playing something.

this sounds like fun thow sneeky thelos took off to sw without monrena... monrena was heartbroken.. anyway so monrena will be resonably safe till she comes looking for thelos to resume teachings then :p but sounds like a cool event

Best thing is I have a char in each camp... well one in one camp and many in the rebel corner

Shroud will come for you scarlets!

Thanks for all the support, criticisms and suggestions people. This is more than any of us would have expected and we hope it keeps coming so we can all mould this into something that is logical, fun and fulfilling for all parties involved.

On a side note - Death Knights are coming for Paladins, Priests and hunters up to their eyes in vials of holy water and blessed relics? Oooohh.. we're shaking in out boots XP

Nice to see some creative back and forth i must say!

Could anyone tell me how this "Dominion" would react to foreign nationals/races and how the Chapter would be 'forced out' of power in the end?

Aldric Essalus Helmfrid wrote:Thanks for all the support, criticisms and suggestions people. This is more than any of us would have expected and we hope it keeps coming so we can all mould this into something that is logical, fun and fulfilling for all parties involved.

On a side note - Death Knights are coming for Paladins, Priests and hunters up to their eyes in vials of holy water and blessed relics? Oooohh.. we're shaking in out boots XP

Like we havent killed holy people before

"The Warlord is comming"

Man the holy-water canons.

Spoiler:

Seiken wrote:Could anyone tell me how this "Dominion" would react to foreign nationals/races and how the Chapter would be 'forced out' of power in the end?

I've detailed how we will react to foreign races in another post in this thread, to summarise: they're very low down on the list of things the Chapter will attempt to combat.

How the Chapter are forced out is detailed in the first post. We will eventually loose all support from the House of Nobles and the rebel forces will be standing amassed with pitch-forks.

I'm thinking that the leaders of the rebellion would probably be the light based guilds, the Disciples, Strand, Lightbringers etc...

Hmm... you sure the church of light want to make a stand with rebels due to the eyes of doubt on them.