Event idea: 'The Anethionean dominion'

Ah, glad to hear I could help Valestrion. And of course it could be extended to Maelmoor and the Lightbringers if he wishes. Though that'd be rather amusing since it'd mean TSS would be the only "church" guild that becomes hunted by the chapter... and we're the least church-linked of the three guilds...

As for modern day parallels. I'm not sure they're apt. There is however a very striking irl parallel when the church leadership was exposed as massively corrupt and radical religious movements did take over in large parts of the world.
Maybe you've heard of it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation

I can dig up Arkson for this, he will speek out and stand up for peace and the virtues, even if it leads to a pyre.

hmm cartel involvememnt!! my fritseni will be online some!

Ledgic Caan wrote:As much as I love the sound of this entire idea, I really can't get over the fact that the "populace" of Stormwind would have to be reaching new levels of stupid to turn to the chapter, or indeed allow them to start running the show.

I really think you overestimate people.

Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervour, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.

And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so.
How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar. - Anonymous

Fear is the most powerful motivator there is. The 20th century is littered with dozens of examples of ridiculously stupid decisions made by entire populations simply because they were manipulated by incredibly base emotions.

This isn't the 20th century though. In a medieval society, it wouldn't even occur to ordinary people to change their religion, and most of them are unlikely to distinguish between two different variations of the same religion.

That... isn't quite true Valestrion. I already pointed out the reformation, which is a massive and very violent movement that happened at the end of the middle ages. But there's plenty more examples, such as the Hussite Wars (a precursor to the reformation) in Bohemia and the Cathars in Occitania (southern france), both were even targets of crusades.
Prior to this we also had the massive catholic, orthodox, arian feud throughout christian europe in the vaning days of the roman empire.

And that's just the largest christian things. It has happened in all parts of the world, with all religions and especially in times of difficulty when the leadership of the old ways fails to do what's expected of them.

Islam to.

Doesn't having all of the major church guilds protected make this event... pointless, to say the least?

I mean it bothers me somewhat to see Valestrion take this event so negatively to the end of stating his guild will be protected from any consequence of it before the pre-events to this event even begins. Yet we have to gain support from the entire community for it to work. It's like building a jigsaw with only 2/3 of the pieces.

I'll just... put this here.

Spoilers!

Geldar, have your say. This is what this thread is about...

Valestrion speak with me why you object to this. You say DoL would lose public respect if they participate. How? They'd be reprimanded, interrogated, branded clean or corrupt and then let go if clean or judged if corrupt.

The way you object to this so much gives me the suspicion that DoL are actually corrupt (I know right) and you don't want to be discovered yet. What other reason would you so defensively protest over about 4-5 pages on this thread.

Aldric Essalus Helmfrid wrote:The way you object to this so much gives me the suspicion that DoL are actually corrupt (I know right) and you don't want to be discovered yet. What other reason would you so defensively protest over about 4-5 pages on this thread.

It's not corruption, it's just a OOC fear of any conflict.

Well if DoL cowers away and Chapter takes the scene, it won't be long till the Chapter starts going ballistic and torture anyone for glancing oddly at them.

Which means DoL can raise from the underground and beat them back and be praised heroes (and thus the church's light too, rather than anethion's) of Stormwind and all will be as it used to once the event is over.

I was imagining the regiment being strongly against Anethion takeover but now with the recent happenings and Samian getting his fat ass court marshalled, it could go for an intresting turn.

All in all there is so much tension going on regarding the church, I think it should explode, implode and be splattered all over the streets

Faralan wrote:Well if DoL cowers away

But we won't. I sometimes get the impression we are seen and placed as a "politically correct order of the Light" but we are not. We are, first and foremost, a religious order. We follow our ideals and fight for the people with a dedication rivaling any religious fanatical order. The difference is we don't need to paint things in black and white and burn people to serve our goals. We will fight for them with equal dedication, sacrifice and without a second of doubt. We. do. NOT. yield. We work with diplomacy for our purpose is to serve the people we protect, not the glory of slaughter or victory.. or fame for that matter.

The only way you'll get us out of the way, even poor little JP, is overpowering them. But you'll need numbers for that. Numbers we just might match. An alternative is surprise, or simply catching us off guard. If we find ourselves outplayed before battle begun, then our approach would be quite different.

Few of the propositions I have seen work with what we are. The reason is simple: the Chapter wishes the 'guarantee' a certain level of success in order to get the event working. A level of success that already assumes a certain position of people, which conflicts with our position.

But so far, "that's alright". What I object against is how we are becoming a "very exceptional" case. I hear things like "political immunity" and other trump cards that would offer us god-knows-what special treatment. I may be arguing against my own case, but for the love of roleplay, let's steer away from that crap. Might as well claim "Diplomatic immunity" *shrug*

I feel this is a fun and interesting idea that is launched. OOCly I encourage this event and I would find it a sad thing to see it ruined with special cases and immunity cards. If you cease the predefined assumption of "how DoL" (or any group for that matter) is outplayed, then you cease to need an answer for that. Play it out!

If you show up in the Church, unannounced, with 20 Chapterites.. then I doubt we'll be sufficiently prepared to stop you. You'll probably find every Disciple (and others) nearby willing to fight back, and fight hard... But you wouldn't want to win this without effort right?
Surprise us, outplay us. In the struggle you may capture a few DoL's. The rest will find themselves crippled in numbers, and will be forced to find an alternative route to serve the people to the best of their abilities. How you launch this event may very well determine our position.

I'd encourage to let the roleplay determine the way it goes. I approve of this event, no matter how it turns out and is decided. I'll play along, whatever the OOC agreement is. But I truly believe that letting the RP decide things might increase the immersion and reality of the situation.

Jeanpierre/Ragnilde wrote:

Faralan wrote:Well if DoL cowers away

I sometimes get the impression we are seen and placed as a "politically correct order of the Light" but we are not.

Given my experiances that is how Valestrion usually presents you.

That said, I loved the post JP, and I think that's exactly what the Chapter wanted to see. At the very least it's the response I wanted to see.

I wasn't the one who suggested immunity. I just agreed that it's one possible avenue. Actually, I prefer the option of us setting up a base in Elwyn and caring for the victims.

I am not against this event as such. There are things, however, that I consider important for an event. Firstly, it should be realistic. Secondly, it's up to the Disciples to make major decisions about the Disciples. I'm happy now on the second point that we can find a satisfactory way for the Disciples to be involved, but I'm not yet convinced on the first point.

Indeed, suprise us.

Shock and Awe tactics!

I Have to say, even though probably wont be taking part in this, being a northern guild, it sounds like an amazing idea. As RP around this time of year as we all know can be quite low. Having a Guild try to control the church and even terrorize citizens they believe to be heretics would make people more inclined to keep coming online to take part in this.

As well as that it could increase the membership in the guilds taking part which would be good for RP all around for everyone.

there were also cases in medieval history there were newmerous pesent revolts all against the kings of the times.. usualy they all got executed for treason.. but it never stopped them guy faucs also spent a long time hiding gunpowder under parlement.. had that baby gone off thwre most likley will have been a civil war.. history is litterd with odd and strange occurencies where civilians did what was against there own interest not just modern times but in times gone by

Aldric Essalus Helmfrid wrote:Geldar, have your say. This is what this thread is about...

I kind of already did, do not see any other issue that needs addressing right now.

Right. Do you want to discuss any of the issues regarding the council OOC, or see what happens IC?

When Fortesgue tells us the ideas he had, sure.

Geneviève wrote:
Given my experiences that is how Valestrion usually presents you.

His efforts serve the well being of the guild and people, and political correctness is an effective tool to accomplish that but don't let that mislead you. Even Valestrion once threatened to pull the plug out of a military operation to defend the Elves because they tried to push us against one of our principles. Oh how we shed tears of pride that day...

But yes, I think Valestrion's concerns are fair. I also think we have a fair answer. I only hope it will be less scripted. "IC" our stance will still be to avoid such a situation from happening, stopping it by force if we must. I hope Anethion will whoop out some clever tricks, or brute force to overcome that challenge. OOCly I'd encourage it, anyways.

I love the idea.(of course)

On the Disciples, I think that no matter what happens with this event the Disciples are going to come out in a very very positive light. The whole event, I doubt would be quite long. Power corrupts and so on, the chapter would last a short time before people revolt.

And as such the Disciples who naturally oppose the chapter, regardless of what happened to them during the event would be vindicated.

Example: Say the Disciples attempt to rally the people against us, however the people have no time for the blasphemers of the church, well then for that time the people lose faith in your order. However as soon as they see the Chapter are a much worse group of people to decide matters of faith, they would run back to the Disciples.


One concern: A question I would like corleth or a chapterian to answer, how do we avoid getting obliterated as a guild after this event ? Because surely we will have broken countless laws etc during the whole event ?