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The Battle for Alterac [RP-PvP][[1st of May]

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Melnerag
Krogon Devilstep
Lavian
LomenĂ¡r Nightsinger
Calisar
siegmund
Allonia_Miral
Samian/Bismack
Thelos
Rashka
John Silverweave
Seranita
Raenmar
Rammius
Diederich
Drustai
Helmut
Skarain
Vaell
erwtenpeller
Xen-tau
Coppersocket
Ralegh
27 posters

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Post by siegmund Wed May 01, 2013 11:29 pm

The Battle for Alterac [RP-PvP][[1st of May] - Page 3 Wowscr11

Not the best resolution, but scouting!
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Post by Drustai Thu May 02, 2013 12:34 am

Alliance After-Action Report

The Battle for Alterac [RP-PvP][[1st of May] - Page 3 Battelforav


  • During preparation, Areyah Conover divides the army into four task groups: Frontline, Recon, Support, and Healing. Each group is placed under a subordinate commander: Gilran Steelfist for Frontline, Helmut Spoon for Recon, Lomenar Nightsinger for Support, and Irys Grimrock for Healing. Frontline holds the line, support flanks them, healers stay in the rear, and recon scouts the enemy and hits their support from behind.
  • Each group leader is then additionally ordered to form A and B teams, in case portions need to split from the main group.
  • Each group leader is given a Gnomish radio, in order to facilitate ranged coordination.
  • Battle begins. The army moves down as one, but soon splits into separate divisions. Areyah takes the main division down towards Stonehearth Bunker, while a secondary division, comprised of Frontline and Range's B groups, move to take the mine and then hold position at Stonehearth Outpost. Recon group is ordered to scout out the enemy.
  • Main Division sets up by Stonehearth Bunker. Frontline blockades the path, while Areyah moves atop the Bunker to watch the battlefield with her spyglass.
  • Recon and Areyah spot the enemy, who has moved into the middle of the field of honor. After a short wait, the enemy attempts to flank Main Division by going around the Bunker's eastern edge. Areyah immediately orders Main Division to re-align to face east, putting Frontline into the enemy's path. The enemy engages Main Division, and is then hit from behind by Recon. Horde are outnumbered in this battle, and forced to withdraw.
  • Secondary Division is ordered to move south towards Snowfall Graveyard. Meanwhile, Main Division moves south towards Iceblood Graveyard. However, Recon and spyglass show the enemy perched in the hills by Iceblood, making an approach from this angle heavily favor the Horde.
  • To divert the enemy, Areyah orders additional troops from Frontline and Healing's B group to reinforce Secondary Division (this splits the numbers between Main and Secondary to about 17/16, with the remaining 7 in Recon). Secondary Division is then ordered to converge on the Horde from the direction of Iceblood Garrison. Though Secondary Division loses this battle, even with Recon's support, it opens the eastern cliffs for Main Division to push forward.
  • Main Division faces down the enemy from the east. After a brief standoff, the order to charge is given. The Horde, now in a central position, is set upon by Main Division from the east, Recon from the west, and a regrouped Secondary from the south. They are quickly overrun and forced to withdraw to the bottleneck between Iceblood Tower and Iceblood Graveyard, but the chaos of the battle (namely, both Main and Secondary were NOT supposed to engage at the same time due to us outnumbering the Horde, and so we had to spent some time fixing things) enables them to prepare a strong defensive line.
  • Secondary Division engages the Horde at the bottleneck, supported by Recon. They lose this battle, though it opens up the passage. Main Division attempts to exploit the opening by charging in, but open themselves up to being enveloped by surviving Horde from the rear and regrouping (rezzing) Horde from the front. Main Division is forced to pull back (gets slaughtered horribly).
  • Not all of Main Division withdrew. A handful have taken cover in Tower Point, along with some of Recon. They hold out until reinforcements from both the rest of Main and Secondary arrive and push the Horde back.
  • A moment of rest is taken to regroup and reorganize (so that we can start fixing the numbers problem). Main Division and Secondary Division are merged back into a single army. A small force of 14 is sent forward to engage the remaining Horde forces, who have prepared a defensive line. The attack fails.
  • The army moves forward. One half, commanded by Bismack Bronze, is sent ahead to engage the enemy, while the other half remains behind to serve as a reinforcement wave. Bronze's attack fails, but is immediately followed up by the reinforcement wave. Even then, the attack only barely succeeds.
  • The Horde withdraw to Frostwolf Base Camp, as the Alliance army assaults the outlying village. The Horde initially set up a blockade at the gate, forcing the Alliance to halt for a moment, but they eventually move into the general's fortress.
  • The Alliance engages the Horde in the fortress. Several attempts are made, each are unsuccessful in routing the Horde. The general manages to escape (due to Horde going under minimum required numbers, a countdown was started).
  • Ultimate outcome of the battle: Massive damage to Horde forces, but Horde leadership (the general) managed to escape to fight another day.
Drustai
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Post by Drustai Thu May 02, 2013 1:40 am

Alliance Review

Sustains:

  • Recon group. Easily the strongest force multiplier on the Alliance side, probably made our numbers look bigger than they were. Was the one group that we ensured took part in every battle. The one task group of the four that really functioned as cohesive unit (although, part of that is because numbers required us to split the other groups).
  • Communication was good. Could use some work, but for the most part the addition of established commanders really helps with coordination, and usage of IC radios ensures that directions and reports of enemy movements over Raid chat are actually done IC instead of OOC. An improve that could be made here would be to put one or two of these established commanders in command of secondary divisions. Keeping all of the commanders in the main division sort of limited how much individual authority they could provide due to the overhead (me) issuing all the orders for the group. Delegation delegation delegation.
  • Preparation and planning worked. Definitely can be improved and made more streamlined, but the basic strategies implemented mostly accomplished what they were supposed to accomplish.
  • Spyglass. Spyglasses are awesome.

Improves:

  • OOC organization. I focused 100% on IC organization and planning, that I didn't even think about the OOC. I figured I would take the battle completely IC, and figured numbers would be equal and we'd just fight it out. Having to do so much OOC organization really threw me off-guard.
  • Invites. Split off from OOC organization, the invitations were handled very messily. I misjudged how much of my mental resource time would be needed for my other jobs, that I didn't realize how stressful trying to also handle invitations would be. Though a few people were set as assistants, this was done in a very off-handed manner that didn't really require people to actively manage invitations. Lack of preparation here resulted in A) inviting low levels initially before realizing that war games can't have low levels, and B ) missing people like Greyford Company. The latter especially is very upsetting and something I feel very bad about. This area is something that definitely needs to be improved on. Recommending to myself to have a dedicated Invite Officer for any future events.
  • Scheduling. Event was scheduled for 21:00, but no mention was made of preparation time. Next time, a firm time must be established for preparation, either one or two hours before the event. Additionally, try and get guilds to arrive at the location the day before. The guilds that had the most luck in getting into the 'queue' were those who had traveled there the day before. Guilds that only arrived 'according to schedule' (Natures Grasp and Greyford Company) received very few slots in the raid.
  • Practice. Planning and leadership of Alliance forces went fine. Lack of practice however made it hectic, uncoordinated, and undisciplined. People were slow, unsure, and misunderstood some orders. Training needs to happen.
  • Personal critique. I spent 1k gold and part of my morning getting a helmet made for my transmog set, and then forgot to wear it during the battle.


Last edited by Drustai on Thu May 02, 2013 1:54 am; edited 4 times in total
Drustai
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Post by Guest Thu May 02, 2013 1:43 am

Drustai stop posting this shit now I have to post something like that.

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Post by Drustai Thu May 02, 2013 1:45 am

Sorry. <.< People were asking for a write-up of what happened, and I also felt it was important to write down what should be improved on for the future.
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Post by Guest Thu May 02, 2013 1:56 am

At least you've covered most things Drustai! Only big thing that was missing with the Horde was an IC build up to it, mostly because I was working..

Alas, history is there to be learnt from. The campaign in the coming months shall be better organized and hopefully after 5.3/5.4 the Horde won't be as disunited IC which means whomever else has currently been cut off from the 'action' (mostly ORB/SSM) can participate if they so desire.

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Post by Melnerag Thu May 02, 2013 9:19 am

I loved the event. Especially the STRATEGIC feel of it. Having a small group, being ordered to take positions. Excellent.

Idea for the future:
1. Choose zone(s). Position armies in the zones. Split armies up into managable units (10ish?).
2. Make a rule: all troop movements outside of battles are done at walking speed. Exception could be a 10-man Cavalry Unit (for fun)
3. Have two field commanders slowly move their units on the battlefield, taking positions, controlling bridges and fords and towers and trying to outfight and outthink the enemy. Avoid swimming to make Bridges&Fords mean something.
4. When a group is crushed, it has to fall to a defensible position they held before to regroup. Example: if Alliance Group started in Westbrook Garrison, and then went to fight the Horde trying to invade Westfall-Elwynn bridge and lost, they fall back and regroup at Westbrook Garrison.
5. Don't shy away from imbalanced fights and bigger engagements. Sometimes it is fair 10v10 or multigroup 20v20, but sometimes it can be 10v20.

I think this will combine a slow enough pace of the event that allows fun RP, with usually balanced w-PvP and actually make strategizing at warcouncils meaningfull. Since clearly, if to use above example, while Alliance fights horde at Westfall border, another Horde group sneakily claims Westbrook - then alliance group has to fall all the way back to Goldshire. OUCH!

Fun for soldiers, fun for wPvPers, fun for those who prefer RP over PvP and fun for those in command!

EDIT:

Setting war-goals and RPing around them can make such campaigns even more fun. For example, if the Horde attacks Duskwood from Deadwind pass, it is very important for them to hold Deadwind Pass or STV entrances. If they control neither, they cannot retreat if battle turns sour. Unless they want to risk encirclement, forget all about escape routs and attack. Regardless of outcome, the descision itself can be fun RP.

Likewise fortifications such as towers/keeps/ruins can be given meaning by allowing the defending party to respawn inside the fortification and regroup there instead of falling back. Which gives them another chance to repel the attacker....or the commander to send reinforcements. If Plot demands it, bigger fortifications can be treated as 3-tiered even. Imagine a battle first at the gates of Westbrook, then on ground floor, then on second floor just to take the place!

Information becomes important. If you know where enemy is heading, you can anticipate. Which makes spy-groups, vantage points on hills and towers and covert movement out of sight even MORE important.

No-swimming rule will add tremendously to the importance of bridges and crossings. To use Elwynn example, one could isolate Westbrook Garrison by blocking the two bridges to it. That way alliance garrison cannot easily be relieved (unless reinforcements secure a bridge in battle) and it cannot escape once defeated. RP! Tension! "Light have mercy, we are about to be captured or killed! SEND REINFORCEMENTS!!!"



Last edited by Melnerag on Thu May 02, 2013 10:03 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Thelos Thu May 02, 2013 9:24 am

I am very sorry I had to miss this, and look forward to participating in an event like it in the future.
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Post by Gilran Thu May 02, 2013 10:38 am

It was good event, just felt a bit awkward for me in the first place.

I managed to take a few screenshots, not much but it should give some little impression!

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Post by Odgan / Keag Thu May 02, 2013 10:56 am

Was awesome, I enjoyed the RP around and during the battle a lot as well.
The actual WPvP battles got fun for me after the destruction of Iceblood Tower, as before that, the group (secondary group) I was part of got send in as suicide runs. But I understand that and don't blame anybody for that, as it's indeed quite hard to balance stuff in such situations.

Looking forward to more!
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Post by Vaell Thu May 02, 2013 11:28 am

Was good fun, even though I had to rush off early. The only issue was lack of Hordies.
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Post by Maelmoor Thu May 02, 2013 11:32 am

Great work organizing this event and thanks for the summary Drustai!

There will always be some issues when you arrange something as big as this, all in all it went well, just a shame everyone couldn't participe due to the 40 player limit.
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Post by Krogon Devilstep Thu May 02, 2013 12:10 pm

All sounds jolly good, thanks for the write-up Drustai!
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Post by Feeniks Thu May 02, 2013 12:24 pm

This was so well prepared and planed, I felt like I was sliding down on silk! Absolutely fantastic! Best W-RP-PvP I have been in! Thanks Dusrtai for the review and good pointers there too.

Yes, it was a blast, but like Vaell, I also went off before all was finished. Perhaps we could start next time more early?

Perhaps, as Melnerag suggested, we could take this outside, so all can partisipate? Sure, this will mean biger armies, huge lag and that either side will be smaller.
Fighting in teams worked great. Good for commanding troops.

Yeah! War goals!

As for my part, even if my char had just been made head of Holy Brigade's Infirmary, I was actually happy that this had not reached ooc/ic organizers and Irys was tasked to lead, as she is more experienced in PVP...keep Irys in charge, unless she wishes othervice and let my char look at her and learn ic the ropes. Having to handle HB Inf. before and after battle, as just RP, suits my char fine. And HB Inf. and battle field healing are two different organizations, I think, so it's just logical to have other healer lead it.

And one more special thanks to Coppersocket for ooc help and tips *hugs*
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Post by Drustai Thu May 02, 2013 2:40 pm

Ildranor / Odgan wrote:Was awesome, I enjoyed the RP around and during the battle a lot as well.
The actual WPvP battles got fun for me after the destruction of Iceblood Tower, as before that, the group (secondary group) I was part of got send in as suicide runs. But I understand that and don't blame anybody for that, as it's indeed quite hard to balance stuff in such situations.

Looking forward to more!

I was just informed by Melnerag that when I sent reinforcements to join your group, they didn't actually... reinforce you during the battle. So I can see how you felt it was a suicide run. When Maelmoor/Disciples/some healers etc arrived with you guys at Snowfall, they were supposed to JOIN the battle with you. Not walk off elsewhere.

So here's another Improve I need to make: Assign better designations during the battle, since apparently it wasn't clear. Should have been calling them Main and Secondary during the actual battle.

Also, I need to assign more fluid groups next time. The four groups was based around even numbers between Alliance and Horde. Splitting into two divisions with those groups was very messy since they weren't planned to be split.
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Post by Samian/Bismack Thu May 02, 2013 3:25 pm

For the roleplayers intrested in travel rp the regiment and friends will be moving as the following:

Thursday night between 21:00 and 22:00(May 2nd, today) we will move from Alterac to Refuge point and stay there till Saturday/Sunday

We will then ride/march for Menethil where a boat is docked, on sunday night we will sail for Tol'Barad which means we will most likely rp on a ship for a day before arriving in TB.

Anyone is invited to come tag along.
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Post by Skarain Thu May 02, 2013 3:35 pm

Thanks for the holler. I'll see how it suits with our plans.
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Post by Maelmoor Thu May 02, 2013 3:43 pm

Drustai wrote:
Ildranor / Odgan wrote:Was awesome, I enjoyed the RP around and during the battle a lot as well.
The actual WPvP battles got fun for me after the destruction of Iceblood Tower, as before that, the group (secondary group) I was part of got send in as suicide runs. But I understand that and don't blame anybody for that, as it's indeed quite hard to balance stuff in such situations.

Looking forward to more!

I was just informed by Melnerag that when I sent reinforcements to join your group, they didn't actually... reinforce you during the battle. So I can see how you felt it was a suicide run. When Maelmoor/Disciples/some healers etc arrived with you guys at Snowfall, they were supposed to JOIN the battle with you. Not walk off elsewhere.

So here's another Improve I need to make: Assign better designations during the battle, since apparently it wasn't clear. Should have been calling them Main and Secondary during the actual battle.

Also, I need to assign more fluid groups next time. The four groups was based around even numbers between Alliance and Horde. Splitting into two divisions with those groups was very messy since they weren't planned to be split.

Well we took it all ICly, so when we arrived where they were supposed to be none was there and we lacked a radio device so had to send Copper as a courier to get updates! I think it's fair if such things happens when it's due to IC reasons!
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Post by Drustai Thu May 02, 2013 4:10 pm

Ah, if no one was there when you arrived, then yeah, sounds appropriate!

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Post by siegmund Thu May 02, 2013 4:17 pm

Instead of spliting healers-Frontline- etc. next time teams can be split with all included. Maybe a stealth team still together, but overall some teams that got someone in charge and more than just dps or just healers under their command. Would be a easier command chain. And the commanders (Hopefully got a clue about PvP or know how to flank at least) could do the job of IC moving forces. The main guy just tells where they may be needed or what tactics they could use. Seems easier to me.
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Post by Krogon Devilstep Thu May 02, 2013 4:19 pm

Eh, its war. not everything goes according to plan, actually I'm pretty sure that is a standard thing!
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Post by Drustai Thu May 02, 2013 6:02 pm

siegmund wrote:Instead of spliting healers-Frontline- etc. next time teams can be split with all included. Maybe a stealth team still together, but overall some teams that got someone in charge and more than just dps or just healers under their command. Would be a easier command chain. And the commanders (Hopefully got a clue about PvP or know how to flank at least) could do the job of IC moving forces. The main guy just tells where they may be needed or what tactics they could use. Seems easier to me.

Yeah, this is what I intend to do next time. I arranged it the way it was since I was expecting large, even numbers. Therefore it was organized for large battles rather than smaller ones. Next time I do any IC commanding, I'll likely be organizing in a much more fluid manner. One recon group since that one works very well, and everything else being 5-man holy trinity groups (1-2 frontline, 1-2 ranged, 1 healer) that can be repositioned a lot more smoothly.
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Post by siegmund Thu May 02, 2013 6:48 pm

Yeah 5 man sounds fun since then /party works great too!
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Post by Helmut Fri May 03, 2013 11:46 am

The Covert Operation, AKA. Sneaky Squad, AKA. Silent but Deadly (SbD), AKA. Chocolate Thunder, AKA. Prey on the Weak!
From left to right: Tachal, Fuzzy (Siegmund), Stormpike, Helmut, Nimble (Tjib), Longknife and Phineas. Most deadly force in Alterac and will be the most deadly in Tol Barad.

((Once again, you guys were awesome!))
The Battle for Alterac [RP-PvP][[1st of May] - Page 3 Scouts10
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Post by Krogon Devilstep Fri May 03, 2013 12:11 pm

Great bit of art!

however i dispute the most deadly force comment. As i'l be hunting -you- in Tol'barad. >Very Happy
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