Re: DefiasRP: For Community or Moderators?

[Zalissa]

vaell's post = /thread

Also Amaryl, saying that this forum isn't democratic is a load of balls. It's called Defias Brotherhood Community Forums, not Saihna's DB Forum, she just made it for US to be a living breathing community that bands together to make RP on our server more enjoyable, get a grip.

[Grufftoof]

I informed Torradon/Ephitos that he can continue to post for RP through people he chooses (I suggested you in the PM, Gogol). However he cannot post himself.

I didn't really wanna use the word "privilege" but being a registered member and being able to post is a privilege. One Torradon/Ephitos has lost. Amaryl is right for the main. Including the love of drama, for good and bad, that this community shares.

The House of Goodwyn RP is something that is moving, interesting (seemingly) and creative. I've no interest in stopping that. The moderators have no interest in stopping that. Because it is not just about Torradon/Ephitos. It's something others are part of too.

[Rae Wulfgnar]

Can you please answer my questions, Grufftoof or "mod team".

[Rmuffn]

People has to stop confuse providing RP with the reasons to provide.

Ephitos has a background of wanting/needing to be the top-dog, from where he can step on as many people as possible. And since that's happened on more than one char, the pattern also implies OOC involvement rather than IC.

Yes that's RP, but is it really good RP?

I don't think he deserves to be on these forums for one simple reason - He broke the rules more than twice, what's the point of rules if they're not followed? If someone can do wrong and then come back without consequence, why do we have these rules, these moderators etc?

Either you keep to the set rules, or we don't have any. But no slithering inbetween.


I don't know if he's changed, I don't believe he has, and I'll wait to see if he has.
But he made his choice regarding this forum a long time ago.

[Amaryl]

vaell's post = /thread

Also Amaryl, saying that this forum isn't democratic is a load of balls. It's called Defias Brotherhood Community Forums, not Saihna's DB Forum, she just made it for US to be a living breathing community that bands together to make RP on our server more enjoyable, get a grip.

Unfortunately:

http://www.defiasrp.com/t936-forum-rules

This is a privately operated forum, meaning that if we see the need we’re free, and feel obligated to, act accordingly. Anyone breaking the rules or behave in what we consider unacceptable ways will be made clear of this, repeated offenses will likely lead to a (temporary or permanent) ban and/or removal of certain forum priveledges (for example: Avatars, Signatures, PM rights). The goal is to facilitate DB RP, and we are open for people with shared interests to join. But remember you do not have an inherent right to be here nor is this a democracy, if you disagree with us wanting to keep this forum clean of trash as much as we possibly can, you’re free to leave, but as long as you are here, act accordingly.

We can debate about the lack of enforcement for the other rules but to claim ignorance is not an option.

[Zalissa]

Eranth, I think that's rich considering you merrily plodded down to his event yesterday.

[Muzjhath]

I was there when Ephios got his first ban. It was not due to him catching people ERPing. It was because he acted like a total dick to anyone who critized him. And didn't drop it.

Again, there's been two reasonable posts here. From me and Amaryl.

They amount to this:
"Don't say yes, don't say no. Give him a chance to show it. Either on this forum, the realm forum, or in a conversation with the mods somehow"

[Feydor]

I don't see the big problem with winding up a mod. I'm sure I've probably winded up other roleplayers in the past. Mods and the rest of us are equal. Sure, if he joined again and continued to harass people then yeah, ban him. The way I see it, these forums should be for the community, and mods are 'public servants' to phrase it as such. I've never had any problems with Ephitos, but from what I've heard from the overwhelming majority of people is that nowadays he is a chill, RP producing guy. Surely it is in the communities benefit for him to have access to a forum which is a valuable tool to help propagate more RP

And sure, technically, it may be an individuals forum. But what would this forum be without all of us, the community? Fuck all.

[Cathee Norris]

As I am currently inactive both in game and for the most part on the forum due to studies, I am not going to, at this point, get involved here.

However, I would like to ask people to please tone it down a bit. I promise that the moderators are not out to get you. They are here to try and make the forum as good as possible. The issue is still being discussed regarding pro's and con's. We do want your constructive criticism- and we're working on a few ideas to make this even more possible so that you as the community get your thoughts and ideas through, as well as up to date and proper rules, and better ways to handle issues like this. This forum holds a lot of members now, and it is really hard to please everyone, the only thing we can do is try to make a enjoyable environment.

The thread was opened again for a discussion, so lets keep it as calm as possible so that we can keep it open.

[Ixirar]

Personally if it was me, Give him another chance, and we'll see if he cocks up again or not, its been 2 maybe 3 years now. We all grow up.

This would be a reasonable plead if he hadn't been given "another chance" like a million times and butchered every single one of them. Heck, it's just a couple months ago Ephitos was running around causing drama in the scourge guild on Prologue because the GM didn't want to lead the guild in a way that pleased Ephitos. This is the impression I've gotten time and time again from the guy and it feels like I'll never stop getting that.

I don't see why Ephitos is a subject worth fussing so much over. Rules are rules and Ephitos has been given so many unfair advantages in his dealings with them that the fact that he still managed to get himself banned every single time is quite frankly nothing short of amazing. You guys like to claim that Geldar and Co. has some hidden vendetta against Ephitos, and that the only reason that "other people" (I do feel like I qualify for being "other people" quite often in this context) are still around while Ephitos isn't is that the mods hate him and won't treat him fairly.

But imagine a system where no matter how many times Ephitos butchered his "another chance" to join DefiasRP, he's just be able to go "I made a new RP guild and I claim to be grown up now so you gotta take me in" and his ban be remedied. Imagine a system where the mods just unbanned anybody they wanted on the forums. This way, you just gotta make friends with the mods ingame and you have free unbans whenever you wanna.

Volusia and Celltrex were banned from here for much the same reasons that Ephitos was (I don't actually know if Volusia ever signed up but I'm fairly sure he's not welcome here if he tries now) and I don't see anybody yelling to get those 2 unbanned. Call the mods unfair all you want, but THAT is the act of a hypocrit.

[Vaell]

But you must understand that nor is this some sort of dictatorship. I appreciate whoever set up the forum, it has been a welcoming change from having to use the realm forums. They're doing the realm a great justice by providing a place for others to come together, yet to continue having this as a five star forum, you need to keep an open mind.

I see two options which would benefit the majority:
1) Give him a second chance.
What's the worst that can happen? He gets wound up/winds someone up and he is back in the pan. He was younger when he was banned, I think he is like 18 now? So a change is highly possible.

2) Seperate the OOC and IC of the forums!

[Ixirar]

He already got so many second chances I couldn't count them if my life depended on it.

[John Helsythe Amaltheria]

I say give him another chance. Who cares. Alot of people say he's good now anyways, Gogol has some strong points and what I'm seeing from the sideline (his events/guilds and plots) are looking good, too.

At the same time we can ban Raelan, Swindle and Feydor. This forum would be a much better place then.

[Quin]

I say give him another chance. Who cares. Alot of people say he's good now anyways, Gogol has some strong points and what I'm seeing from the sideline (his events/guilds and plots) are looking good, too.

At the same time we can ban Raelan, Swindle and Erahn. This forum would be a much better place then.

Fixed.

[Feydor]

From my vantage point people are calm and are coming up with interesting ideas and constructive criticism.

Seeing as this is an issue which seems to be quite divisive for the entire community, why not hold a vote/poll regarding this issue?
Then it will be easy to see how the entire community feels (or atleast a proportion, it's easy to tell your guild to go vote on it if they care) and then perhaps, just perhaps, a judgement could be made to reflect the wishes of the 'Defias Brotherhood Roleplaying Community'.

[Zalissa]

From my vantage point people are calm and are coming up with interesting ideas and constructive criticism.

Seeing as this is an issue which seems to be quite divisive for the entire community, why not hold a vote/poll regarding this issue?
Then it will be easy to see how the entire community feels (or atleast a proportion, it's easy to tell your guild to go vote on it if they care) and then perhaps, just perhaps, a judgement could be made to reflect the wishes of the 'Defias Brotherhood Roleplaying Community'.

I vouch for this

[Vaell]

He already got so many second chances I couldn't count them if my life depended on it.

then go for my second option. Rejecting the guy completely seems unfair. He didn't really hurt anybody when he got banned, it isn't like he is committing serious crimes. Another chance might lead to a mean post, but that is all it'll do. I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

[Dréfurion]

I say give him another chance. Who cares. Alot of people say he's good now anyways, Gogol has some strong points and what I'm seeing from the sideline (his events/guilds and plots) are looking good, too.

At the same time we can ban Quin. This forum would be a much better place then.

Fixed.

Fixed.

[Ixirar]

I say give him another chance. Who cares. Alot of people say he's good now anyways, Gogol has some strong points and what I'm seeing from the sideline (his events/guilds and plots) are looking good, too.

At the same time we can stop fucking about because this joke isn't funny. This forum would be a much better place then.

Fixed.

Fixed.

Fixed.

[Gogol]

Dont work to get this topic locked and removed please, it is just about to become really intresting.

[Feydor]

He already got so many second chances I couldn't count them if my life depended on it.

then go for my second option. Rejecting the guy completely seems unfair. He didn't really hurt anybody when he got banned, it isn't like he is committing serious crimes. Another chance might lead to a mean post, but that is all it'll do. I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

Indeed, a utilitarian approach is an interesting one. Let's consider a scenario where the community votes and the votes for outweigh the against, and Ephitos returns.
What positives could happen? He keeps the community up to date on his recent RP projects, announces events, has a great communication medium to take into account others ideas, and shape the events and such accordingly. He can easily contact other people to work together to produce more RP and events.
The negatives? He starts insulting people, riling folk up, acting like a cunt and then gets banned. Maybe some peoples feelings get hurt ( ). The mods get to wag their finger and say 'I told you so', and the forum returns to normality.

Is anyone else in favour of a vote?

[Cid]

I have not strong opinions on Ephitos one way or the other, but if he's been banned for a time equivelent to what he did to deserve it initially then there shouldn't be a reason to keep him out I suppose?

This, basically. Water that passed under many bridges long time ago. Don't build a dam to keep up grudges, let them disappear with the current. I would even give Krogon a new chance if he got banned for something, despite what I generally feel about the dude personally. I'm better than that.

[Cathee Norris]

Your suggestion has been noted, Feydor. We're discussing that and other thoughts. If there are more thoughts and idea just go ahead and post them, we do keep our eyes on this thread currently.

[Quin]

tbh I agree that these forums are not a democracy and the mods should and are in control. That said I think Eph should be able to talk for himself especially in this thread so everything can just be discussed including all the lolerp mentions and the previous "chances" he has gotten(though I guess odds are that'd end in a flame war regardless)

At the same time we can stop fucking about because this joke isn't funny. This forum would be a much better place then.

Really comical dolan genius? REALLY?

[Dréfurion]

I currently have no reason to change my (negative) opinion of Ephitos.. But he could've aged and gotten wiser. Now I (and many others) who do not typically RP in the human realms will have no run-ins with him, but we do use these forums. For us to have some experience with the supposed new Ephitos we'd need some other way, and as they say the taste in the pudding is in the eating, so I suppose some form of trial as previously proposed is the best way.

That said, I think the trial should be rather strict, as Ixirar rightfully points out, he's probably been given more chances than he deserved at the time.

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