Re: DefiasRP: For Community or Moderators?

[Guest]

Burgen did you read anything? Honestly the door is there if you don't like it here...You posted the same thing 3 times now.

[Vardrek/Burgen]

Burgen did you read anything? Honestly the door is there if you don't like it here...You posted the same thing 3 times now.

Cool story bro.

[Lavian]

Tbh I agree with Coppersocket on Geldar to an extent, only because my own personal experience with you, Geldar, is one that makes me bitter and quite frankly I think you're a hypocrite when you call out Gogol or Torradan by accusing them of preventing RP when you did it to me. That, and you're an overall arrogant arse.

But don't be insulting Saihna, being a mod is a pain in the arse job, I used to do it on an old RP forum prior to me even joining this one, it wasn't rocket science, but it was annoying, and the community back then was much worse in terms of insults and crass remarks. So beggars can't be choosers if someone volunteers to do it, I sure as hell wouldn't (if that's how it works). And it must be an even bigger pain in the arse job to host the forum nevermind moderate it.

But may I say, the mods who decided to not let Eph back on the forums, if you thought you were going to avert drama by your decision, well done on that epic fail.

pert, what kind of birthday party doesn't involve a family feud?

We definetely expected it. This is Defias Brotherhood afterall. Would be silly to not expect it.

[Vardrek/Burgen]

Are you dissing my glorious e-peen with the shines of a millions of silvery headed snakes?

Totally Amaryl that e-peen is so out of fashion these days perhaps you might wanna try the e-peen of a thousand nyan cats riding on the backs of rainbow pandamen that glitters golden in the rays of the violet moon.

[Aadaria-Ioanna]

The double edged sword

I didnt know the lad when he made me press a good friend into telling me who had accused me of Erping in the middle of a rppvp event with the dwarves up in Hillsbrad. The erp accusation was a wish to cause me trouble. Hard to do when it was guildies all around me when I was supposedly Erping -right outside the dwarven fortress with 4 other guilds present icly and nearby The problem was the pressure I had to put on a friend. He caused ooc trouble.. not ic trouble. BUT!! He have applogized. And I did accept it.

I have heard a lot of bad things about him during the years, read a lot, seen a lot.. But.. now to the point.

1. I can be a bitch, a real pain in the ass, unreasonable, unforgiving and what not. Heck I even call myself the Queen bitch. And I do know there are stories of bad to be told about me. Some true, some are not true and some are a bit in the middle.

He can be a pain in the ass, not just on ic levels.. So.. are a lot of other people here?^^

2. If this was my forum I would likely kick quite a lot of people to be fair.
I get why the mod's wont let him back in, at the same time, I have to say...

I would like them to give him a new chance. Why?
Because its very simple: He can be kicked out again... its not that hard.
Time have passed he may have changed, if not.. then lets just kick him to the curve? No big deal. And yes he may hurt some people on the way, stirr some trouble, but nothing that cant be fixed?^^

3. People do not have to get invovled with him, if they dont want too.

With this said.. This is really up to the moderators..
As even if we others, may not mind having him back, it is their -duty and their decision that will stand..

And why is that?
They are the ones needing to solve the issues he have caused in the past, they are the ones needing to make the decision of what they do think is the right for this forum community and we should respect that. Because ultimatly, it is they who are doing this work, they who keep this forum running, and their say.. Well lets face it people.. If this was your forum...

And your decision was not respected and argued on, the forum you spend hours to clean up, maintain and what not... You wouldnt like it...

So this is double edged sword.

So I just suggest people, that voicing your opinions is fine, the admins, mods, guild leaders, officers and what not everwhere need to hear people out from time to time. Giving people new chances does have its limits though and he may have used up his?

What I can suggest if anything..
Perhaps we should all just consider, giving him some more time to prove himself, his dedication, his good behavior.. Lets say three months? And then ask the moderators to reconsider it then, in the view of this hopefully good behavior?

[Muzjhath]

[It's not about if he can preform them or not Ledgic. It's about the fact that it's not really proper to have someone who isn't part of the community to be in a position where he seems like he is. This goes for the mod thing too. Should we not have people who are actually on this community, rather than people who are not. This forum is made for people of the community, so people who aren't of the community really have nothing here to do, do they? Let alone moderate it. Again, as stated above, nothing personal against Geldar. The same could be said for anyone else who isn't active within the community, why are you a moderator of a community which you do not belong in? Clearly something's gone wrong then.

I'm gonna post on the bolded part here.
For pure moderation of the forum. I think having mods who AREN'T activly playing, yet an active part of the community are better mods than those invested.

Yes, they might not know a full issue in a flamewar. But generally it is very easy to identify what is valid arguments in "good natured drama" and what is a circkle jerk of shitstorming rage. One needs to be edited.
The biggest part of being a mod should be keeping threads on topic. Moddng so the second of the above doesn't happen. Or a good serious thread doesn't devolve into a heap of pictures of cats.
In cases that it starts becoming like that a mod should go in and remove the offending materials and posting "I did this, because of <reasons> stay <on topic>/don't flame"

They'll also not be afraid of modding a thread since no one will accuse them of taking sides. The only thing requiered is that they are active.

[Cathee Norris]

[It's not about if he can preform them or not Ledgic. It's about the fact that it's not really proper to have someone who isn't part of the community to be in a position where he seems like he is. This goes for the mod thing too. Should we not have people who are actually on this community, rather than people who are not. This forum is made for people of the community, so people who aren't of the community really have nothing here to do, do they? Let alone moderate it. Again, as stated above, nothing personal against Geldar. The same could be said for anyone else who isn't active within the community, why are you a moderator of a community which you do not belong in? Clearly something's gone wrong then.

I'm gonna post on the bolded part here.
For pure moderation of the forum. I think having mods who AREN'T activly playing, yet an active part of the community are better mods than those invested.

Yes, they might not know a full issue in a flamewar. But generally it is very easy to identify what is valid arguments in "good natured drama" and what is a circkle jerk of shitstorming rage. One needs to be edited.
The biggest part of being a mod should be keeping threads on topic. Moddng so the second of the above doesn't happen. Or a good serious thread doesn't devolve into a heap of pictures of cats.
In cases that it starts becoming like that a mod should go in and remove the offending materials and posting "I did this, because of stay /don't flame"

They'll also not be afraid of modding a thread since no one will accuse them of taking sides. The only thing requiered is that they are active.

Personally, I want to try and have a mix of both, to get both a outstanders point of view whom is not involved in the drama, and the point of view of one that is in game, seeing what is going on (the moderators can vouch that this exact issue I have just recently brought up for a discussion).

As said, this forum is not perfect and I expect never will be in the eyes of everyone present. There are things that will be worked on very soon, once I'm out of the swamp of studies which is within weeks.

[Cid]

Ah, exams and such?
Apologizing for taking time and thought from your studies with this sort of behaviour that we've been showing the last few days.

I support the suggestion made by Aadaria-Ioanna, to say the least.

[Beladon]

I'm all for Forum moderation and banning those who prove to be hugely offensive,but I go with Adaria-Ioanna on this one, give the guy chance, the vast majority of the roleplayers agree to let him on, the moderators primary role is to serve the community, not themselves.

By all means if he turns out to be an OOC tosspot, then bring out the hammer again.

[Ixirar]

I find it funny how "vast majority" seems to mean "a couple people more", given that there's relatively few people posting in this thread and a good couple of them were opposed to letting him on the forum.

Personally, I don't really have any personal issues with him and it's sort of on-off hostility/civil when I talk to him ingame. My main point I've been trying to make in this thread is that there's a reason for the rules on the forum and as such, going in a black/white world, he does -not- deserve a second chance. If he is allowed on the forums, it's a grey-zone decision if the mods do allow him back. I think everybody needs to be aware that morally he is way past the limits of second chances and that if he is given another one he needs to be told that this one is the absolute last one.

Preferably, this also means that "Free Ephitos 201x" threads are no longer allowed to be posted.

[Gogol]

EDIT: Also, listen to Pert. He knows his stuff considering he knows the person in question personally. <_<

Another daft comment from you. As an official of this forum, you really ought to think before you type.
Pert is obviously quite biased, not being on friendly terms with Ephitos. And I can assure you, whatever Pert gossips about, Ephitos dosent hold him very high either. But that is personal between the two.

[Ixirar]

Everybody else moved on, Gogol....

[Gogol]

Everybody else moved on, Gogol....

As I have other things to do during the day, I cant reply every fifth minute like some others.

[Kozgugore Feraleye]

I find it funny how "vast majority" seems to mean "a couple people more", given that there's relatively few people posting in this thread and a good couple of them were opposed to letting him on the forum.

I get the feeling the people who don't care about him getting in aren't even bothering posting in this thread. They might just be watching the drama unfold for giggles.

I guess this means he isn't coming back, you guys. I share the feelings of all the complainers in here on behalf of the drama-loving audience.

[Allandra]

I'm new around here and was not present when the guy got banned, but I just wanted to say something:

I do not see how 13 pages of drama can do community or the duscussed matter any good.

I used to be a moderator myself and I kinda see moderator's point when he/she/they do not want to cancel the ban of a troublesome person. On the other hand he seems to be a creative guy who makes interesting events and the more RP the better. Dunno.

If I had any vote on the matter I'd say: pardon him and see how it goes. If he changed you'd do a good thing. If it proves to be a mistake you can ban him again with every right to say "told you, guys" and a precedent to refer should such matter arise again with different people.
Win-win situation.

But I'm new around town. Probably I do not see the whole picture.

[Amaryl]

I do not see how 13 pages of drama can do community or the duscussed matter any good.

This is DB, without a 13 page overnight drama thread now and then, this community wouldn't even exist.

[Muzjhath]

This is DB. 13 pages is tame.

[Gogol]

I am not a moderator, but can I please ask you to stop the derailing.

[Ledgic]

This matter is waiting on the input of one or two, but I can assure you it'll be put to rest either way by the end of the day.

So, while I'm sure everyone's opinion on the matter is valued, it isn't going to add anything we don't already know where this is concerned.

Lil' more patience and this can be closed and put to rest.

[Grim]

A thread that truly sticks to its intended subject would be very strange indeed!

Still, commenting on the quantity of pages full of rage is relatively on topic. Sometimes its cathartic to let all the anger flow out into a thread to get to the root of the issues. Plus, its hilarious.

So you see, the root of the problem is that some people view the mods of these forums as a kind of Orwellian big-brother organisation, deciding what is best for the community, up to and including who can and can't take part on these forums. Added to this is the feeling that the mods actually don't represent the majority of roleplayers due to such reasons as not truly being members of the community...
Others however, think that the mods' actions are generally justified and are happy to let them make the decisions.

I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome.

[Vardrek/Burgen]

A thread that truly sticks to its intended subject would be very strange indeed!

Still, commenting on the quantity of pages full of rage is relatively on topic. Sometimes its cathartic to let all the anger flow out into a thread to get to the root of the issues. Plus, its hilarious.

So you see, the root of the problem is that some people view the mods of these forums as a kind of Orwellian big-brother organisation, deciding what is best for the community, up to and including who can and can't take part on these forums. Added to this is the feeling that the mods actually don't represent the majority of roleplayers due to such reasons as not truly being members of the community...
Others however, think that the mods' actions are generally justified and are happy to let them make the decisions.

I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome.

Cept this is more Equilibrium than high quality 1984

Sean bean:- I lay my dreams before your feet, tread softly for you tread on my dreams. *DBRP Forums dances through the room like Techno viking*

[Ledgic]

Evening.

I'm going to lock this thread after I've made this post. If anyone has any comments regarding the outcome, do feel free to PM me and we can discuss it.

The moderating team came to the decision that we're going to give Ephitos access to the forum. For one month, that access will be limited to the IC, Events and Registry sections.

This allows Ephitos to post up on behalf of his guild, promote his guild and post up any relevant IC pieces related to House Goodwyn.

The reason for the limited access is simply due to his past on this forum. I was not a moderator at the time, so I can't speak for the feelings of people that were, but by limiting his access for a relatively short period of time, their minds are put at ease concerning whether Ephitos will repeat the actions taken previously.

Once the month has passed, provided Ephitos has not repeated the behaviour of the past (which was the primary concern regarding his application anyway) he will be granted access to the entire forum.

This is an effective clean slate, and I can only hope that both Ephitos and the community on this forum will respect the decision we've taken.

Once again, anyone is free to contact me via PM or in-game (my characters are listed in my signature) regarding this decision or anything else regarding the forum for that matter.

Ta'.

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