DefiasRP: For Community or Moderators?

[Gogol]

I have been on this server for many years now, since Vanilla, and Iv witnessed the rise and fall of a many players
and guilds. Together with friends I have rp'ed and created rp for others.
But no one has ever matched Torradan/Ephitos when it comes to creativity, initiative and originality.

Together him and I have done so many things I remember with a good chuckle.

• The Army of the Damned

• The coupe of the Ironforge Senate

• The Cult of Shadow's civil war

• and the Barony of Goodwyn, just to mention a few things.

Why do I mention this? Because there is two sides of everything.
There are those who dont like me, there are those who dont like Torradan/Ephitos.

But there are also the vast number of rp'ers on the server of Defias Brotherhood that considers ous both friends of theirs.
And we them.
Just look at Torrandas/Ephitos application thread, is the sheer number of vouches there not enough?


Sadly though, the moderators have choosen not to allow Torradan on to this forum because of the following reasons;
Mocking Ledgic, saying he has brought the moderators up in a way to fit him.
And "past reasons".


Perhaps you can argue about the moral in mocking someone.
Perhaps you can argue about past reasons, even though it has been set in stone that whatever this is, the person has
changed.


'Let Him Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone', is that not how it goes?
Shamefully as it is now the whim of a few dictates the many.



Is it fair that we should be faced with attitude like this, from a moderator that is only in general visible once
every Tuesday?

And as for past grudges coming in, or anyone working -against- exciting RP, ask Ephitos or also known as the person Gogol is posting on the behalf of on these boards because he is banned, a certain Goodwyn to get the idea.

In case anyone belived that foul slandering, he is lying. It is either that or he does not know what he speaks of.



When shall we start to favour the members of the community instead of some old crones, sitting in their ivory tower holding hands.

Allow Torradan/Ephitos on to this forum and stop this ridiculous act.

This forum was created by Saihna for the community, not for a selected few.
Sign and share this to all your friends on Defias Brotherhood if you agree with me on this.

For if the moderators does not change their decision, it might not be much and a few might even celebrate the fact, but
I shall be the first one then to withdraw my membership from this forum.


Yours sincerly and respectfully
Gogol / Krickle / Lysle / Darragh / Vasilije / Sergi / Leonard / Treavor

[Zalissa]

here, here.

[Swan Emperor Arenfel]

What is the original reason for Ephitos being banned from the forums?

[Zalissa]

catching some of the realm celebrities ERPing lolol

[Swan Emperor Arenfel]

I have not strong opinions on Ephitos one way or the other, but if he's been banned for a time equivelent to what he did to deserve it initially then there shouldn't be a reason to keep him out I suppose?

[Grufftoof]

It probably won't come as a massive surprise that this thread gets a lock. But it isn't getting locked with no answer/information/message.

It's getting locked by me pending my reply (on behalf of the Mod team).

FYI: Don't take my words in a private message (PM) out of context. Especially when you're using them to make your own point, and not the one in the original PM. Thank you.

[Vaell]

In regards to the current Ephitos topic

The guy has clearly done wrong on an OOC basis, but keeps active ICly and provides RP to others. I personally didn't like him when I spoke to him OOC, but I'm sure there are people who don't like me. Though, I've never experienced someone not RPing with my chars because of their OOC opinion (Vaell is probably nicer than me!) and as the thread was locked and without making a new one, can I simply suggest one thing...
Seperate IC and OOC sections of the forums. Have Game related and all IC matters accessible to people like Ephitos who were banned for OOC things.

Weird little grudges should stay on the playground. So what if he caught some people ERPing!

[Zalissa]

A daft grudge is exactly what it is. The guy got 17 vouches on his registration on this forum, and he still didn't get in.
I'm not saying the guy is a saint, me and Ephitos used to not get along either, but I joined House Goodwyn on Hazelle without knowing he was the guild leader, and I was astonished when I found out it was him, he's completely changed his tune, not that he was ever guilty of being a huge OOCer, but for example the RP event he provided yesterday that reigned in the likes of the Chapter, the Disciples, the Regiment, the Forlorn Cartel and more should be a worthy piece of evidence. Whatever moderater it is that's throwing their toys out the pram and saying "NO" should cease being a giant toddler. This forum is meant to be democratic among the community and from what I've seen, it's not the community that have a problem with Ephitos.

[Dréfurion]

Let's wait for Moderators to respond and have the discussion then, instead of ceasing this thread to discuss it anyway.

[Zalissa]

They did give a response, Dref, and I think the response they gave said a lot about how they operate.

[Grufftoof]

It is probably worth pointing out, at the start, that this was the decision of the whole moderating team. This isn’t one or two people. These are not all people from one specific group (the Council, Stormwind, the Alliance etc) but a group of people working together - and in this case, reaching consensus.

The moderators aren’t always overtly obvious in their actions or postings on these forums. That perhaps could be clearer. But our names can be known. We’re not the Illuminati nor blood-drinking lizards. We’re people trying to work to make these forums work, for as much of the community as possible.

There are players who do not get along. It would be facetious to say otherwise. But a (perceived) personal vendetta made no impact on the decision of the moderating team with regards this matter. This matter was discussed since the application was made. There was much to discuss, there is history. Indeed “past reasons”. There are things that were mentioned in my PM (which, by its nature was a private message). I am sure quotes could be given, past threads (since removed or archived) could be linked to. But would that help matters? No, I don’t believe so. Because evidence isn’t what’s being looked for when all some people see is a personal attack and an existing axe being ground, and ground again.

With regards to realm forums. We don’t moderate those. They’re not within our remit (if we even have one). However people do read them, people post on them. And actions and posts do have impact outside of there. Was this decision reached because one of the moderators was “mocked”? No. Were posts made by Torradon/Ephitos mentioned in discussion? Yes.

There is no “whim” here. If it was a whimsical thing why would we even discuss this? There would be an action, and no reply. There wouldn’t need to be. Instead I’m here trying to clarify, to steer this away from the (frankly) paranoid belief that any and all actions regarding Torradon/Ephitos are made by a select cadre of people who despise him. That’s not what happened. It isn’t what happens with any decision on these forums.

As for lacking sin and casting stones. Not one of us is without sin. It was believed that you, Gogol, posted on behalf of Torradon/Ephitos. This wasn’t outside of the realms of possibility, he was and is banned from the forum, and you posted for the guild. Surely discussions happened about what was being posted. However, the intent was not a foul slandering, nor to lie. It was questioning, concern.

Torradon/Ephitos is banned. His history, disruptive, argumentative attitude and previous postings are the reason. There is no cover-up, no conspiracy, no vendetta. You are happy to believe what you will, as a community and individuals. The decision, as detailed in his PM, stands. It won’t be overturned.

I am happy to discuss this more - PMs would probably be clearer (but that is not so things are “hidden”) – however there is little more I can add right now. I am sure some people will not like this decision, least of all Torradon/Ephitos. And sometimes decisions are made that are not easy.

I’d like to believe you posted this with good intent, but I don’t want it to spiral into attacks, bad words etc. The thread will be reopened, for now, as I’d rather have one place for any posts regarding this, rather than little comments across the whole forum. However, I’ll lock it again if needed.

And as for leaving, we don’t want people to leave this community but that’s an individual decision. This community can and will work for its stated purpose, to promote RP on Defias Brotherhood. But that means for the community as a whole which is why this has happened.

I informed Torradon/Ephitos that he can continue to post for RP through people he chooses (I suggested you in the PM, Gogol). However he cannot post himself.

[Gogol]

In regards to the current Ephitos topic

The guy has clearly done wrong on an OOC basis, but keeps active ICly and provides RP to others. I personally didn't like him when I spoke to him OOC, but I'm sure there are people who don't like me. Though, I've never experienced someone not RPing with my chars because of their OOC opinion (Vaell is probably nicer than me!) and as the thread was locked and without making a new one, can I simply suggest one thing...
Seperate IC and OOC sections of the forums. Have Game related and all IC matters accessible to people like Ephitos who were banned for OOC things.

Weird little grudges should stay on the playground. So what if he caught some people ERPing!

Like a sort of a forum Ghetto then? For people worth less than others, seeing as some members of this forum go unpunished every day, throwing ridiculous insults to their left and to their right.

[Rae Wulfgnar]

I thought we were all equal role players here, sharing these forums. Not the "mod team" deciding who shouldn't be allowed here on the behalf of themselves and not us. Its clear that majority of role players want him here and that should be respected.

[Nessra Sunwhisper]

I am very, very disappointed in all the moderators who voted no. The fact that there are only handful of you compared to all the people who have enjoyed the RP Ephitos has, and continues to create for the community.

Furthermore, there are people on these forums who are constantly attacking others and those who are unable to contribute much more than "derp" to discussions. How is it that these people are allowed to stay, but someone who is actually giving something to the community, is once again locked out?

I also understand it must be hard to whisper the guy and solve all the grudges ingame, if one is actually ashamed and in denial of all the lolRP or ERP he has accused them of...

[Vaell]

In regards to the current Ephitos topic

The guy has clearly done wrong on an OOC basis, but keeps active ICly and provides RP to others. I personally didn't like him when I spoke to him OOC, but I'm sure there are people who don't like me. Though, I've never experienced someone not RPing with my chars because of their OOC opinion (Vaell is probably nicer than me!) and as the thread was locked and without making a new one, can I simply suggest one thing...
Seperate IC and OOC sections of the forums. Have Game related and all IC matters accessible to people like Ephitos who were banned for OOC things.

Weird little grudges should stay on the playground. So what if he caught some people ERPing!

Like a sort of a forum Ghetto then? For people worth less than others, seeing as some members of this forum go unpunished every day, throwing ridiculous insults to their left and to their right.

Don't be melodramatic, my suggestion was a pretty logical one. He did go out of his way to maliciously wind up a mod, fair enough. But the IC section should be open for all, as should Game related. It isn't about worth, it is about respect. Like with role-play, splitting IC and OOC is always best. You'll do no favours for the guy if you try and act like he is a saint in all regards!

As for the "wait for a response from the Mods" bullcrap - I don't think many people even got their chance to put their opinion down. This isn't a "Mods vs Player" community, so it isn't just two sides of the coin. It is everyone's opinion that needs to be taken into account.

[Zalissa]

That's not good enough.

[Rae Wulfgnar]

" I informed Torradon/Ephitos that he can continue to post for RP through people he chooses (I suggested you in the PM, Gogol). However he cannot post himself. "


What is the difference between some-one else posting on behalf of him and him posting himself? Will the mods change their mind and allow him here if the majority of the RP community want him on these forums? or is it only the decision of the handful of mods here?

[Zalissa]

Few > majority, quite clearly.

[Zalissa]

Thread's open.

[Quin]

If you're going to exclude pesky little assholes atleast ban Faralan

I informed Torradon/Ephitos that he can continue to post for RP through people he chooses (I suggested you in the PM, Gogol). However he cannot post himself.

I dont get this at all, moderators need to get over themselves. There are plenty of "mean" people you will have to deal with in the world and even on this forum.

[Grufftoof]

I locked the thread (now opened again, start posting there please!) because I didn't want the reply I was writing to be lost in an instant sea of crap. There are times to lock, to make a pause, to then reopen. This was one, it's hardly something often done (certainly not by me).

It's an interesting idea Vaell, abouyt what sections of the forums can/are viewed and by whom. Maybe something to think about.

As for the Ghetto thing? I'd despair. But I don't think it'd get me anywhere.

As for how we operate. I made my post, and any messages about this, as clear as possible. I'd hope they show that these things are operated in something approaching a concise and clear manner. Though I'm not always great at that.

But there is no conspiracy. That, I'd beg, people could bloody accept...

Anyway, this isn't the right thread for this.

Someone post a gif of something stupid, or a picture of a cat or something.

[Kozgugore Feraleye]

Waaah, the owners of the forums I'm voluntarily using don't wanna do what I say and are therefore elitists, waaah.

[Amaryl]

Maybe its me, And as a person I'm as neutral against Ephitos as can be, having enjoyed the good parts, and being royally annoyed by the bad parts of his (previous) behavior.

Personally if it was me, Give him another chance, and we'll see if he cocks up again or not, its been 2 maybe 3 years now. We all grow up.

But its not my decision. This isn't -my- forum, this isn't even a democracy. Nowhere is that stated. This is Saihna's forum, and for all intents and purposes we're using her forum. And at the end of the day its her choice to allow people into the forum or not.

A community fills the forum. They don't run it, and the idea that just because you're apart of something, you have a right to run it, is just nonsense.

The only option you have as a member (if you're allowed in) is to leave, if you don't like it. Its the biggest strength you have as a community member. and if more people agree, they all leave, and form a new one somewhere.
(Which coincidentally, already happened, which only resulted in slander of this one and the council, beyond anything productive, by members who shall not be named)

To think otherwise or demand otherwise is just silly.


but if it were up to me, give the man another chance. We're DBers, we love another burning wreck of drama

[Muzjhath]

I can say this here. I've never RPed with him. Back when he was (To what I know) only on alliance. I was only on Horde.

I've only interacted with him through forums.

I can't say if he's better or not than he was. Yet, the last I saw of it he wasn't and was acting more like a spoiled brat than anything else. True this was back when he tried to set up a second DP-RP forum out of what seemed to be spite.

But to the matter in question:

I believe that if he somehow can show the greater population, not only the people he roleplays with, that he has changed. Like he say he has. He should be allowed in.

As in, if he today can post an idea, get critizied for it and not act like he's a girl on MTVs Sweet Sixteen who doesn't get what she wants. Since this is the behaviour he fielded before. And the sort of rage he showed evertime he tried to jump his ban and failed.
If he can reason and discuss his ideas even when they are seen as bad, trying to convince people they are good instead of calling names.
All that.

Since this forum has already to many people who far to easily will blow a fuse over nothing and create drama where non is needed. Ephitos is one of those, and at least used to be the worst. (Well, second worst really. Yet the one worse than him need not be named).

I still believe that if he can show, either by being non dramalicious on the RP forum, or get in on a month long trail. During which he is active on a daily basis.
If he in something like that can show that, like he says, has changed. He should be allowed.

He shouldn't be banned because of the person he "was" if he claims he's someone new. We shouldn't be that vindictive.

I say make a test where you try him. See if he's changed. Post results.
If he passes, why shouldn't he be here? He is a part of the community.
If he fails he'll only have himself to blame.

[Vaell]

[color=indigo]It is probably worth pointing out, at the start, that this was the decision of the whole moderating team. This isn’t one or two people. These are not all people from one specific group (the Council, Stormwind, the Alliance etc) but a group of people working together - and in this case, reaching consensus.

Moderating a forum is much like making a cup of tea for someone else. The job isn't hard, but it is appreciated. But when you start dictating how many sugars are in my tea, that is when it gets a little teatatorship and I think you guys need to step back and realise that this is a community run RP. Your consensus means little when outweighed by the majority.

[color=indigo]The moderators aren’t always overtly obvious in their actions or postings on these forums. That perhaps could be clearer. But our names can be known. We’re not the Illuminati nor blood-drinking lizards. We’re people trying to work to make these forums work, for as much of the community as possible.

Which I must then push on the point that most people wouldn't mind him back. Most people actually don't hold a grudge and if they do have an OOC one, they shouldn't take it ICly.

[color=indigo]There are players who do not get along. It would be facetious to say otherwise. But a (perceived) personal vendetta made no impact on the decision of the moderating team with regards this matter. This matter was discussed since the application was made. There was much to discuss, there is history. Indeed “past reasons”. There are things that were mentioned in my PM (which, by its nature was a private message). I am sure quotes could be given, past threads (since removed or archived) could be linked to. But would that help matters? No, I don’t believe so. Because evidence isn’t what’s being looked for when all some people see is a personal attack and an existing axe being ground, and ground again.

Then seperate him from the OOC and IC sections of the forum. If you are trying to do the best for the community and have the responsibility of running it, why hasn't there been any solution apart from one which the consensus of most people believe to be unfair. I mean, I don't want to use the term lazy but...

I couldn't be arsed to single out the rest of the thread so I'll put my opinion here:

Right, so my only experience with Ephitos was him coming into a Skype call and acting like Tony Soprano. I thought he was a bellend, but never once was I thinking "Ooo, next time I see him IC, I'm going to polymorph that bastard!" So what if the guy has a bad attitude OOC?
One) people can change.
Two) He is providing a lot of RP.

I think the way the mods opinions are being forced onto others is reflecting a bad OOC attitude by you guys more than it is by him. He is being polite and wanting to get back into the community. Just don't let him on the OOC section or give him another chance. Honestly, people who hold these petty grudges that cause rifts for others when they're wanting to rp are fucking 10x worse than those who wound them up in the first place.

You're causing more of a hinderence to RP than helping the community out. Just stop this pissing contest and seperate the two forums or just let by gones be by gones because so what if he insulted a few people? That's life. He caught you ERPing? Sure, dickish to post it, but who cares!

Making him post through others is not a solution. Just stop being so bloody petty.

EDIT: I realise my post is aggressive, but these things go on for too long and it gets so annoying.

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