Middle-East & North African Discussion

Rasonal, no sorry I will not "discuss it over here", it is too sensitive a topic imo, but I'll why I find it funny, Antistia :) ... it's funny because Israel send their own warships through and make huge amounts of nuclear weapons. And you already know what I think of my cousins anyways so I don't think I really need to continue :P

grufftoof wrote:The writing from arabic script (معمر القذافي as far as I know) doesn't have a direct translation afaik.

Yes, you're completely right. In most cases, it's really hard to transliterate arabic to english, but Qathafi is much closer to the arabic قذافي than Gadhafi and Gaddafi!!!! :p All the letters in his name already exist in english, it's just that Libyans pronounce the th like dh, I think :p. Like Mohammed in my dialect, is Mhamed, but in actual arabic, it's Muhammed :P. It's just the way Americans pronounce it, I guess, like "moslem" is the american pronunciation, but "muslim" is the arabic pronunciation.

I read a nice article in Time Magazine (A neat little American weekly magazine.) that mentioned the importance of the role the EU can play in this by using it's economical power. It mentioned that it would be a huge help to the Mid-East to open up trade and allow room for more union.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2049878,00.html#ixzz1Erw3voav

At the moment there's far too much talk of sanctions. And sanctions only ever hurt "the people". Not those they're aimed at (the establishment).

Time magazine is awesome. And indeed, there is too much talk of sanctions. Imposing a no flight zone would be much better to begin with. Thus far the US has stated that it is keeping all options on the table and has refused to rule out unilateral action. I think the unilateral action would be a no flight zone or a real air campaign against the regime.

I think a much more welcome initiative at this time would be airlifting in basic supplies and construction materials. If things are as bad as the media portrays (that is, open civil war), then Libya's economy and infrastructure will be out of commission for a while, and I can't imagine the stocks they have right will last much longer.

Controlling airspace and then airlifting in/out people, materials and materiel would, hopefully, be a start.

But it is now, I think without much doubt, Civil War. The opposite of the revolutions in Tunisia and Egypt. Or at least, their dark side...

In other news, oil prices are surging due to the unrest in Libya (and the rest of the middle east). The peak was at $120 a barrel and has receded back to $114 a barrel which is still much more than it was at first.

grufftoof wrote:At the moment there's far too much talk of sanctions. And sanctions only ever hurt "the people". Not those they're aimed at (the establishment).

I agree. Instead of helping them with food supplies and whatnot, we try to find silly organisations we can kick them out of as a sanction.

I'm sorry :< I'm bitter

Nithel wrote:

grufftoof wrote:At the moment there's far too much talk of sanctions. And sanctions only ever hurt "the people". Not those they're aimed at (the establishment).

I agree. Instead of helping them with food supplies and whatnot, we try to find silly organisations we can kick them out of as a sanction.

I'm sorry :< I'm bitter

Agreed. We don't need organizations to kick the regime out of but an organization willing to kick the regime's teeth in. The NATO secretary has said that NATO has no plans as of yet, rumor has it the Pentagon is developing a host of military options for the US, this happens often though and few, if any, of these plans are ever used.

Antistia wrote:

Nithel wrote:

grufftoof wrote:At the moment there's far too much talk of sanctions. And sanctions only ever hurt "the people". Not those they're aimed at (the establishment).

I agree. Instead of helping them with food supplies and whatnot, we try to find silly organisations we can kick them out of as a sanction.

I'm sorry :< I'm bitter

Agreed. We don't need organizations to kick the regime out of but an organization willing to kick the regime's teeth in. The NATO secretary has said that NATO has no plans as of yet, rumor has it the Pentagon is developing a host of military options for the US, this happens often though and few, if any, of these plans are ever used.

'Company' and 'ministry' operatives will already be on the ground no doubt, adding fuel to the fire.

The British have already stated that "Special Forces are in the area".

That will come as no actual surprise to anyone that knows anything here. But it probably means some things are afoot.

It's likely, at this juncture, to mean the ground work to see what's actually happening, and the removal of people (UK nationals for instance) from Libya. That, and maybe speaking with "certain parties" about important things.

Like oil... Sorry, I mean the "swift progress from tyranny to a stable government for the Libyan people".

But, you know, I'm a cynical bastard too.

Not that I'm suggesting it is a "setup" to get at the oil. I'm also not that stupid. This is a grass roots revolution, starting from Tunisia and Egypt, something needed and wanted by many of the nations it has touched.

Only, in Libya, it's turned to Civil War.

Libya is a bit like China in that it's composed of a multitude of different tribes, there's no organized political opposition and things tends to get solved violently.
The country doesn't even have a constitution.

I'm afraid it'll turn into Somalia 2.0 if "certain parties" doesn't help organize the rebels and form some sort of cohesion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12570279

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ghadaffi blaming Osama Bin Laden for the protests! XDDDDDDDDDD

He's not blaming the US, but Bin Laden?

Spoiler:

I did not see that coming.

Yeah, he's using the old Threepwoodian "Look behind you! A three-headed monkey!"-ploy.

They never work

edit: He's blaming Taliban, Al-Qaeda, UK&US, foreign journalists, anyone but the real source of the country's issues.

Geldar wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12570279

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ghadaffi blaming Osama Bin Laden for the protests! XDDDDDDDDDD

What if he was right O.O

Totally right, Al'Queda would sure want to replace a tyranical, dictatorship with whatever after it falls, that makes so much sense.

An artists rendition of Bin Laden in Libya, leading the protests himself. As seen in South Park.

Spoiler:

I wonder if Gaddafi read this before he took control of Libya LOL

I can't help but feel bad for Qathafi ... he is either mentally deranged or on drugs, and I mean that seriously ...

(and haha I just noticed they changed google to the kuwait towers !!!!)

With SAS troops and paratroopers on standby to rescue an estimated 150 Britons trapped at workplaces in the Libyan desert, contingency measures were being drawn up to close the British embassy in Tripoli to pre-empt possible reprisals.

"pre-empt"... yeah.

He was meant to be hidden, hunted, done for, and with just a few hours left, shut away to rot in the underground bunker of Bab al-Azizia, a prisoner of his past and highly uncertain present. At one point on Friday, he was meant to be dead. But just before sunset on another dramatic day for Libya, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi reappeared, like an icon, high up on the wall of the great Arab fortress that looks on to Tripoli's Green Square. "Here I am among you," he shouted into the microphone. "Dance, sing, rejoice."

He was greeted by a roar from a crowd of several thousand people in the square. They had gathered there in the morning to shout to the world that Libya, or at least its capital, was still his.

Fabrizio Caccia, "an Italian journalist invited by the Libyan embassy in Rome" to Tripoli to cover the events...

Anyone think this is almost laughably silly as journalism?

Anyways...

UN resolution being drafted (by the UK and France atm):

"the widespread and systematic attacks currently taking place in Libya against the civilian population may amount to crimes against humanity."

Such a statement is pretty unique. "Crimes against humanity" is a phrase used once before in a UN resolution - with regards to the Sudanese conflict (Darfur genocide).

And is quite possibly enough of a precursor for war. Or at least "military action".

Edit: This might be useful to see -

UN Security Council Resolution 1674, adopted by the United Nations Security Council on 28 April 2006, "reaffirms the provisions of paragraphs 138 and 139 of the 2005 World Summit Outcome Document regarding the responsibility to protect populations from genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity". The resolution commits the Council to action to protect civilians in armed conflict.

According to a Dutch news site the British had a secret airlift to evacuate some of their nationals from Libya.

Antistia wrote:According to a Dutch news site the British had a secret airlift to evacuate some of their nationals from Libya.

Germans sent ships, war ships, and went 'touch us and die bitches'. Doesn't fit them xD

Rasonal Dranger wrote:

Antistia wrote:According to a Dutch news site the British had a secret airlift to evacuate some of their nationals from Libya.

Germans sent ships, war ships, and went 'touch us and die bitches'. Doesn't fit them xD

Well.. Doesn't fit them these days, historically speaking though the Germans were bad ass (and still are the only reason the Netherlands has an army )