Middle-East & North African Discussion

We saw what happened last time, Six day war anyone?

I was just listening to BBC arabic. A girl journalist gave a sort of speech at a press conference with the amir... was very inspiring and sad.

And about Israel... I really hope the mideast does not end up attacking them. I am not exactly pro-Israel but still I would hate for more bloodshed to happen. This region has suffered enough at their hands and their own hands too.

Rasonal Dranger wrote:

Antistia wrote:

Geldar wrote:Im curious to see what happens after all this is over, after as said the 'house of cards' fall. What path will the countries and their governments take? Will it be a path of democrasy or as stated on CNN, BBC and DW a path of fundamental/radical muslim regimes.

Egypt seems to be going the way of democracy, but if other countries go Islamic like Iran then Israel has a fight on its hands.. They'll probably win the fight but still.

Not sure anymore, to be honost. Hezbollah threatend to take over the Galil next war, and I am pretty sure it is plausible. Iran is allready sending war ships from the Suez Canal, and Syria and Lebanon in general are preparing for a take over. We -might- be able to handle that. Add to that another two or three countries, heck maybe even Jordan, and it might be too much for us.. It's enough the war lasts for over one month, and they merely pee on us, and we will drown.

Well, Hezbollah may be a problem but I personally think the IDF ought to be capable of winning a defensive war against them. The Iranian warships though is something there is confusion about. Lieberman says they're coming but the officials at the Suez have said no Iranian warships have requested to pass through the canal. The Egyptian foreign ministry and the defense ministry have also said this. I think Lieberman might have been angling for more foreign aid from the US, as he was speaking to Americans.

You'll manage, if not, Uncle Sam has carriers in the Persian gulf to bail you out and 6 carriers ready to deploy for war.

Uncle Sam is an idiot.

Shaelyssa wrote:Uncle Sam is an idiot.

Uncle Sam can't hear you over the sound of how awesome he is

Uncle Sam is pretty old you know, don't go hating on the senile.

Shaelyssa wrote:Uncle Sam is an idiot.

...I know why you're saying that!

Spoiler:

Reminds me of this:

I don't get this thread...what are we talking about, and what has this to do with Shaelyssa?

Antistia wrote:

Rasonal Dranger wrote:

Antistia wrote:

Geldar wrote:Im curious to see what happens after all this is over, after as said the 'house of cards' fall. What path will the countries and their governments take? Will it be a path of democrasy or as stated on CNN, BBC and DW a path of fundamental/radical muslim regimes.

Egypt seems to be going the way of democracy, but if other countries go Islamic like Iran then Israel has a fight on its hands.. They'll probably win the fight but still.

Not sure anymore, to be honost. Hezbollah threatend to take over the Galil next war, and I am pretty sure it is plausible. Iran is allready sending war ships from the Suez Canal, and Syria and Lebanon in general are preparing for a take over. We -might- be able to handle that. Add to that another two or three countries, heck maybe even Jordan, and it might be too much for us.. It's enough the war lasts for over one month, and they merely pee on us, and we will drown.

Well, Hezbollah may be a problem but I personally think the IDF ought to be capable of winning a defensive war against them. The Iranian warships though is something there is confusion about. Lieberman says they're coming but the officials at the Suez have said no Iranian warships have requested to pass through the canal. The Egyptian foreign ministry and the defense ministry have also said this. I think Lieberman might have been angling for more foreign aid from the US, as he was speaking to Americans.

You'll manage, if not, Uncle Sam has carriers in the Persian gulf to bail you out and 6 carriers ready to deploy for war.

It is indirectly confirmed through what an Iranian Officer said, in the begining of 2011. They did not pass yet or asked to pass yet that's true, and Liberman is.. yeah well, anwyay xD

Anyhow, to Geldar: The problem is in Six days war we begun with pre-emitive strike. If we do that again in a 'formal' war, we will be samshed by the entire world. We will be isolated and more. And about uncle Sam, as much as I love him, he never aided directly in wars The only war I can think of is the first Gulf war. But we didn't fought in it, we just allowed the Americans do as they please. But yeah! We will see.. Usually, when people speak of war in the Midle east, nothing happens. *alarms*

Some people might find this updating feed interesting as an overview:

The Guardian

Some interesting (if potentially devastating) things from Libya. Not least the "French speaking mercenaries" brought in to crackdown on the protests, and reports of lots more deaths, the blockading of the runways and airport. A few of the lecturers from my part of the Uni are over there right now (I posted about it ages ago in the "vent thread")... kinda glad I didn't get "chosen" now :/

Info from Bahrain really does seem to point towards it turning towards a "Sunni/Shiite" conflict there...

Hats on ladies and gentlebeans. It's gonna be a bumpy ride. And we all want to look our best if the missiles really do start flying (though I believe, or hope?, that at least, at the moment, it's mainly posteuring and chest beating with regards Israel/Iran/etc).

From an AP (Associated Press) source Tweet...

"Gunshots fired into #bahrain protesters, injured have fallen as they try to enter pearl square

Army firing live ammo from anti-aircraft guns from APC's at protesters #bahrain

Protesters were carrying flowers saying they wanted to deliver it to police. Were shot instead. Blood on street now #bahrain"

I dunno what else to say to that, if it's accurate.

Edit: Reuters seem to back up the statement, at least in part:

"Shots were heard on Friday in the area of Pearl Square, a day after Bahraini police forcibly cleared a protest encampment from the traffic circle in Manama, witnesses said. The circumstances of the shooting after nightfall were not clear and there was no immediate word on any casualties."

Anti aircraft guns against protesters?

Someone's not messing around, sheesh.

There's reports of armed and uniformed men removing wounded people from the hospitals in Libya too... and many of the countries Imams have refused to read the sermon given to them by the Gaddafi regime...

But AA guns, yes, I don't imagine if they were actually fired "ON" people that there'd be an awful lot left of said people.

AA guns fired at people? Sounds like a scene from Rambo. But I hope the Libya regime falls, I particularly dislike that after the regime held 10 Bulgarian nurses and doctors as hostages for over ten years.

grufftoof wrote:From an AP (Associated Press) source Tweet...

"Gunshots fired into #bahrain protesters, injured have fallen as they try to enter pearl square

Army firing live ammo from anti-aircraft guns from APC's at protesters #bahrain

Protesters were carrying flowers saying they wanted to deliver it to police. Were shot instead. Blood on street now #bahrain"

I dunno what else to say to that, if it's accurate.

"

I heard the same thing on BBC arabic too.

And Grufttoof it is a sunni/shia thing. I mostly just listen to BBC arabic or al arabiya though so you may be accessing different info than I am, but I found this article (sometimes read bbc too ! it's better than the guardian imo). It doesn't really portray the entire situation well enough imo but it is good enough I suppose

The shia there are very much oppressed in Bahrain. Where I live in Kuwait, it is not so bad atm. It used to be even worse before. When I was a kid, a school rejected me because I come from a shia family.

And sorry for my badly typed and probably incoherent reply. had a massive run today and was at the clinic for most of the afternoon

Shaelyssa wrote:And Grufttoof it is a sunni/shia thing. I mostly just listen to BBC arabic or al arabiya though so you may be accessing different info than I am, but I found this article (sometimes read bbc too ! it's better than the guardian imo). It doesn't really portray the entire situation well enough imo but it is good enough I suppose

The shia there are very much oppressed in Bahrain. Where I live in Kuwait, it is not so bad atm. It used to be even worse before. When I was a kid, a school rejected me because I come from a shia family.

And sorry for my badly typed and probably incoherent reply. had a massive run today and was at the clinic for most of the afternoon

BBC might not tell the whole story, and might be late by two minutes, but you can trust what they say. The Guardian.. well.. like any owner-run Newspaper, they will first say 21 died, then maybe correct themselves later on, that it is only 1 dead and 20 injured, just to get the headlines.

You believe that the BBC is any better than the Guardian?

Really? Silly, sorry, they're both as questionable as each other. Though The Guardian probably takes a little less of the need for "OMG THIS STUFF IS HORSE SHIT" that the BBC does.

And I am very drunk right now. But no less scared by the shit that has happened today.

Look @ 11.24 pm, Bahrain

the world is changing...

and i will be so honest, that a relatively drunk grufftoof, cried when he saw this

and was scared

....Well, that government (just as Libya's) just lost every shred of legitimacy in my eyes. You don't unleash your army on protesters seeking democracy, you just don't. The neocon deep inside me would like to have the Bahraini and Libyan government bombed back to the stone age so democracy can begin.

Its a known fact that this government leads through nothing but oppression and terror. They will continue down that road regardless of how peaceful the protests are. And it shows how weak and afraid it is. Only through fear and violence they are able to have some control, and in my eyes, that is nothing different than bombing civilians through terrorism or any other means to prove a point.

Let's sit back and watch as the UN, the EU and the US moan about how bad it is and in the same time, do nothing to stop the violence.

What they need is this:

Spoiler:

The UN, US, EU or whatever should do NOTHING to stop the violence. Peace should NOT be enforced.

And Gelder, I am sorry but you really are over exaggerating Bahrain's government: you vilify them too much, in my opinion, especially when you equate it to bombing civilians ... Bahrain's government is not some sort of supreme dictatorship holding absolute power over its people. The main bulk of protesters in Bahrain at the moment are Bahraini Shia's. They believe that they have been discriminated against, and I really would not go so far as to say they've been terrorized.

I mean, Kuwait is meant to be a "constitutional monarchy" (I think so, anyways, I am not sure of the exact terminology to describe our government system here), but in reality, it's not really a proper democracy, even though we do get to vote. Wives get bullied by their husbands to vote for certain people, politicians bribe each other and civilians to over for one another, the royal family accepts bribes and steal money and blahblahblah. In the grand scheme of things though, life in Kuwait is good, but it could be much, much, much better, especially considering all our wealth.

Also, the non-bedouin, non-sunni groups here may not have as many "rights" (I put rights between quotations marks because we do have our rights, but I would describe our situation as not being politically equal, and the same is true for women) as the bedouin and sunni's do, but we are still taken care of, unlike Bahraini Shia's though. Again, I definitely would not say that we (or the Bahrainis, excluding the deaths and injuries happening at the moment) are being terrorized or "bombed": I think that is way too harsh.

And I have never been to Libya personally, but what I do know is that Gathafi is, to put it bluntly, an a-hole. :p

Was talking about Libya.

Ah ok I thought maybe you meant Libya and not Bahrain, but I figured I'd post what I typed out anyways since I hoped it'd be a little insightful anyways. You'll have to excuse me, Geldar, sorry!! Just came back from a run so a bit err frazzled