[H / Blood Elf] 5th meeting of the 3rd Silvermoon Council. 27 August 2012 at 21:00 GMT+1

Arli wrote:
However, I would prefer those that roleplayed law-enforcing BKs to actually be in the BK guild

have my babies

lol anyways. yes, i would like that too but there are lots of blood knights who were around before the guild itself was made. for a long time blood knights were just from loads of separate guilds. so its understandable hard for people to quit the guilds that contain their friends IC and OOC to join another.

there are, i believe, currently, 33 or something unguilded (not in BKG) knights. or so tiffane states, but this statistic is like 2/3 years old. there are certainly 10 or more, though.

((Reads through the posts.

1 - A Shatterskull representative would have to be invited by someone that knows they have the information, or find one of those agenda/minute things that are available at public places.
2 - My apologies if I indeed skipped people, it must have gotten lost in the chat. However steps have been taken to help that. Instead of holding up hands for who wants to say something on the topic, those who want to say something will have to step forward and form a nice line.
3 - Patch day, blargh, *checks data* monday looks like the better day according to http://www.defiasrp.com/t4982-days-for-the-council-meetings?vote=viewresult))

Aladras wrote:lol anyways. yes, i would like that too but there are lots of blood knights who were around before the guild itself was made. for a long time blood knights were just from loads of separate guilds. so its understandable hard for people to quit the guilds that contain their friends IC and OOC to join another.

there are, i believe, currently, 33 or something unguilded (not in BKG) knights. or so tiffane states, but this statistic is like 2/3 years old. there are certainly 10 or more, though.

Fully appreciate this - so perhaps the BKs would post a public register of those able to instil law as a BK without being an official part of the BK order (i.e for the purposse of Defias, your guild). I would expect said people to actually attend BK events and support your guys rather than just throw on the tabard when it suits them to throw weight around. That way they get actually seen to be a part of the BK order too, and we get a nice strong show of Blood Knight capability maybe once or twice a month. I've a fully BK-geared paladin but in a PvP guild, if you had open training that "all Blood Knights" were supposed to attend, then I'd be willing to bring her along, for example.

Oh and Kristeas - (2) is a lovely solution!

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:1 - A Shatterskull representative would have to be invited by someone that knows they have the information, or find one of those agenda/minute things that are available at public places.

That would indeed be the most "proper" way to go about things. There will be a Marauder presence at the Arcane Conclave tonight, where Zombini is likely to bring up the Ashen Ascendancy and inform the "juju-mons" of the horde to watch their backs and keep their eyes open. I'm sure there will be some magisters there, and by that word will spread.

Kristeas should also receive word of the last marauder visit soon.

I'll preface this by saying the obvious: I no longer RP.

Having said that. I doubt that you can see the Blood Knights as part of a secret police force. They're not exactly clandestine in their dealings nor do they seem to compute to wikipedia's definition (authorative sources which are never wrong, I haz them). From IC actions that I can remember the Magisters seem to at least perform a duty in crushing political dissent (which is what secret police forces do). Obviously I'm talking about that whole Bazaar brainwashing thing.

erwtenpeller wrote:

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:1 - A Shatterskull representative would have to be invited by someone that knows they have the information, or find one of those agenda/minute things that are available at public places.

That would indeed be the most "proper" way to go about things. There will be a Marauder presence at the Arcane Conclave tonight, where Zombini is likely to bring up the Ashen Ascendancy and inform the "juju-mons" of the horde to watch their backs and keep their eyes open. I'm sure there will be some magisters there, and by that word will spread.

Kristeas should also receive word of the last marauder visit soon.

((I got a fancy bunch of letters that say I can come to the Arcane Conclave, so I'll see you there ))

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:

erwtenpeller wrote:

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:1 - A Shatterskull representative would have to be invited by someone that knows they have the information, or find one of those agenda/minute things that are available at public places.

That would indeed be the most "proper" way to go about things. There will be a Marauder presence at the Arcane Conclave tonight, where Zombini is likely to bring up the Ashen Ascendancy and inform the "juju-mons" of the horde to watch their backs and keep their eyes open. I'm sure there will be some magisters there, and by that word will spread.

Kristeas should also receive word of the last marauder visit soon.

((I got a fancy bunch of letters that say I can come to the Arcane Conclave, so I'll see you there ))

(( Splendid! ))

Secret police don't necessarily have to be silent and unheard of. It is common knowledge throughout Silvermoon and perhaps to other races that there is torture daily and the people are oppressed

Aladras wrote:Secret police don't necessarily have to be silent and unheard of. It is common knowledge throughout Silvermoon and perhaps to other races that there is torture daily and the people are oppressed

secret |ˈsēkrit|
adjective
not known or seen or not meant to be known or seen by others

... D:

I'm not saying a secret police needs to be unknown or unheard of, I'm merely saying that from what we see the Magisters actually seem to have a role maintaining order (the law) in Silvermoon. Furthermore, this role seems, at the very least, to be targeting the political opposition of the regime. The Blood Knights seem to have a broader function.

Emrys wrote:

Aladras wrote:Secret police don't necessarily have to be silent and unheard of. It is common knowledge throughout Silvermoon and perhaps to other races that there is torture daily and the people are oppressed

secret |ˈsēkrit|
adjective
not known or seen or not meant to be known or seen by others

... D:

B-but..russia...history lessons...THE CURRICULUM HAS LIED TO ME

Antistia wrote:I'm not saying a secret police needs to be unknown or unheard of, I'm merely saying that from what we see the Magisters actually seem to have a role maintaining order (the law) in Silvermoon. Furthermore, this role seems, at the very least, to be targeting the political opposition of the regime. The Blood Knights seem to have a broader function.

Well, I see the Magisters in a much more political position. They have no time to bother with the squabbles of the citizens, and would rather others do it, at their whim, of course. Secret police needs to be brutal. The type of kicking down a door in the middle of the night and hauling you away to teach you a lesson, physically and mentally, which I believe most magisters would find distasteful and brutish to do themselves, and they'd rather order others do it as they work on furthering the rebuilding of Quel'thalas and their people (despite having worked on it for 2 bloody expansions) And furthermore, the brainwashing in the Bazaar is done by a priest, SUMMONED by the magisters, which would further the point that they do not directly quieten people down, but rather get others to do it.

I didn't say the magisters were necessarily the footmen of the secret police now did I? Your second point also negates your first point in that a secret police would need to be brutal. Mind control is available, and used and not exactly brutal in the "oh my god they're torturing me" sense.

Your employment of the bazaar example is also valid, but you forget that the magisters seemed to be observing the rally. Indicating that they can be used as footmen. Then after they established that it was against Quel'Thalas' political interests they brought in someone with the skills to 'subtly' bring the rally in line with the interests of quelthalas.

And I don't disagree that the magisters have a political position (I think I can claim that at one point in time my own magister was Quel'Thalas' foremost politician, excluding NPC's). However dealing with the political opposition is inherently a political affair.

Prompted to read a summary of secret police (albeit on Wikipedia) I could easily see some aspects of the Blood Knight order fulfilling that function. Could easily see them being feared by the average citizen as a group that have the authority to act against threats both actual -and- perceived.

I've always seen Magisters as being more political too, not incapable of torture etc but generally would use others to achieve the results they desire against the enemies of the state. As a whole they are a corrupt political force, utlising their power to further their own agenda whilst giving the outward appearance of serving Quel'thalas.

no server Ive played on as Sin'Dorei has really offered this sort of RP. I wish it did.

OOC:

I am happy to see so many people contributing to this debate regarding Magisters and there position within Silvermoon. I have been looking for ways to get Magisters a bit more involved because I had the feeling they were a bit left and and served no real purpose in Silvermoon except flashing their titles (a few exceptions here and there of course). But I have not always been there and I could be missing out on something, if so: enlighten me if I did.

As for my own opinion:

Magisters are the highest authority concerning magical affairs within Silvermoon. Therefore they also have jurisdiction and competence to deal with matters like this the way they see fit. I agree that Magisters involve themselves with politics as well, and I always viewed them as an organisation that also concerns itself with intelligence, you could call it 'secret police' perhaps.

A few more questions then:

• As for the political matter: I want to ask why there is no ''true'' Magister in the council at the moment (as far as I know of). I am under the impression that Solanum is ICly more occupied with his organisation then serving Silvermoon as a Magister (@ Solanum: are you one?)
  
  
• Second, regarding the 'intelligence': Mainly directed @ Aladras or Tiffane: Would you see any possible future to work with the Magisters in law inforcment, letting them work in the background and get intel on criminals or possible revolutionists etc.?

Magisters....hmmmmmmmmm..

Yeah, I'd see it as very acceptable, as long as we keep a close watch on you, and you probably on us (which is probably happening anyways!)

I (ICly) would see it as a good chance to improve relations with another major faction of Sillyspoon, and also crush criminal scum

Why don't we have Ilsinea or Abulos on the Council since they are the Magisters (guild) to go with the BK and Farstrider guilds? It would also give their guild more prominence.

Xyros wrote:
As for the political matter: I want to ask why there is no ''true'' Magister in the council at the moment (as far as I know of). I am under the impression that Solanum is ICly more occupied with his organisation then serving Silvermoon as a Magister (@ Solanum: are you one?)

I can't say if Solanum is one or not, but during the formation this time it wasn't about classes, but more about individuals (not just IC but also OC) instead of ingame classifications. The seat of Knowledge can be any kind of knowledge really, in a way it depends on the individual.

Some posts here also favor Magisters to be very political, if you tried to get a representative of every organisation in a council, it could get caught up fighting inside the council (Imagine a SB and a BK representative going at it because of the recent tensions). The council belfs (that are able to be online) at the moment don't have many (atleast none have been noticed by me) extreme views and share moderate views in most cases (example: the views on the relationship between the thalassian organisations that Xavier/Xyros asked for during the last meeting, no time to make a real council opinion, but the separate opinions were almost the same).

Depending on how things go and grow "real" magisters, blood knights, farstriders and such might be asked to join for their input, atleast two time someone speaking for the BK's would have been usefull.

Lastly, I really like all this talk about the magisters and the secret police.


Edit: How about making the adding of faction spokes(women) an IC thing that can be brought up at the next meeting?

Although magisters have developed on our server at least to fullfill a political role, I sometimes believe that role makes them seem a bit more dull them they are. I am not sure if what I derived from the lore is right, but they should also be brilliant arcanists, the race with the most affinity for magic's (it is my belief that even Elven rogues and rangers know a few basic spells as part of their basic skillset) most powerful mages. I somewhat expect these people to be able to teleport their forces to the other side of Azeroth in the blink of an eye and perhaps even their fleets should not be a problem. That they can ward their homelands with powerful and complicated spells, that kind of stuff. I think stressing the fact the Magisters are one of the political faction has somewhat dilluted all that awesomeness. :<

Emrys wrote: I think stressing the fact the Magisters are one of the political faction has somewhat dilluted all that awesomeness. :<

Just remember that the policial power comes from that awesomeness.

but that's why they have that political power - because of their magical power.

anyways if it's any credit i have no qualms with magisters getting down with the nitty gritty, just saying that I never imagined them -wanting- to do it because of the power getting to their head


*mumble* light'sstillbetter

It still feels a bit like: "I have built a spaceship that can bring me to the edge of space and beyond and that will allow me to discover all sorts of new things about the universe! But I am going to stay here and do politics because everyone respects me now."

Silly magisters... :<