Re: Vikings in Azeroth?

by Guest Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:29 pm

Arathorians is the closest we can get when it comes to a viking culture, then.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:17 pm

When you think strictly about humans. Dwarves could be closer, depending on how you factor in such things as rune usage.

by Guest Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:35 pm

IhavenoRPcharyet wrote:I was thinking about the Vanilla WoW, and Warcraft III....there are no signs of a machinegun in those games.

Warcraft 3 has Siege Tanks and those mortar men and helicoptors

by **Yarnaat** Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:38 pm

Don't forget the Goblin Hero that has robot arms and can throw out factories that craft robots Wink

by **Sevelle** Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:44 pm

Julia / Saihna wrote:
So someone not from Stromgarde decided to make a wall and name it after the one that founded Stromgarde? Unlikely.

Thoradin is not simply a hero of Stromgarde and to imply as much is misleading. He unified the disparate Azotha tribes into one empire, progressed them culturally from warlike nomads to civilised burghers with permament residence, and expanded their influence across the continent of Lordaeron. In this regard he can be viewed as the progenitor of modern human society within Warcraft. With that in mind, it hardly seems a stretch to me that a figure so intergral to overall human advancement would be honoured by more than one kingdom.

And that doesn't even serve to mention that Thoradin's progeny ended up not in Stromgarde but in Stormwind.

Moreover, if the Wall was in fact constructed by Lordaeron, do you not think that naming it after the founder of the Arathorian Empire might be a deliberate insult to Stromgarde? Lordaeron, which spans most of the Lordaeron continent, could virtually be seen as the inheritor of Arathor geopolitically. By naming the Wall after Thoradin, it may in fact be a boast to Lordaeron's contemporary power (and relation to the old Arathorian Empire) and Stromgarde's lack thereof. Just a theory, of course.

Julia / Saihna wrote:
Besides, the wall has been there for a veeery very long time. Probably so long that it was just created back when all the humans were in one kingdom. It is in ruin now, and even in the Durnholde instance it is ruined, even if in somewhat better shape then now.

We have no conclusive evidence on when the Wall was created, though frankly it seems improbable that it dates back to the Arathorian Empire because, once more, the ramps are located on the Hillsbrad side. Why would Thoradin have constructed fortifications whose parapets face his own capital?

Julia / Saihna wrote:
With the fact that there is so little lore about the wall to find, Blizzard probably put it there just for the looks, not really giving it much thought as to where the ramps went. But the origins are pretty clearly Arathorian with the name. Otherwise I'm sure they'd explain more about it and why it got an Arathorian name while not being arathorian. It's whats makes most sense really. People just read into stuff a bit too much

I'm afraid that the logic employed here is somewhat skewed. You discard one set of data (the ramps) in favour of somewhat more ambiguous evidence (the name) with the explanation that people are 'reading into stuff a bit too much.' Do you not realise that the quantifiable evidence (again, the ramps) stands against you and that perhaps you are the one looking too deeply into a name?

by Guest Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:44 pm

Perturbo wrote:
IhavenoRPcharyet wrote:I was thinking about the Vanilla WoW, and Warcraft III....there are no signs of a machinegun in those games.

Warcraft 3 has Siege Tanks and those mortar men and helicoptors

Yeah yeah, you're right Perturbo. Thanks.

by **Muzjhath** Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:49 pm

Haven't read everything on page 4, but before that.

To clear somethings up. First of all Huscarl wasn't something the vikings (too my knowledge) had as any form of title. It was a Gotish warrior name of the Got's.

Second, the comparison between Orcs and Mongols. The only thing I can see there pree the Horde is that they were (from what I've understood) fairly nomadic too a degree, aswell as shamanism.
Aside from that I can't really see many things in common. Aside from the Horde in itself, but it is only alike in how a few orcs unites a people, and then conquers, and in it's "name".

by **Geneviève** Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:53 pm

I stand with Sevelle on this actually. At a glance it does sound like a calculated insult, it's also not beyond the imagination to see a heroes name hijacked for a cause he doesn't champion.

And the physical evidence is that the ramps face away from Stromgarde. You say they may not have thought much about which way the ramps face but the amount of effort that went into making what I believe is a unique wall I'm sure the ramps weren't a last minute decision.

Both are theories and neither is fact but I believe the non-Arathorian origin holds more credence.

by **Cathee Norris** Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:07 pm

As Anaei said I do believe the ramps on the Hillsbrad side is a mistake. Or Blizzard simply didn't care too much. The point is, there is not really any reason any other then arathorians would build it. And even if the ramps were on the Hillsbrad side, it doesn't really hinder the arathorian to get on them on that side eh? Thoradins wall was created (according to Blizzard lore, many centuries before the Third war, aka many hundreds of years, before the Third war), with the name it has. There's not really much more to it. It seems quite obvious to me.

I'm not sure how we even got into this discussion but there you go. Did the OP get his question answered? In that case we can put this thread behind us.

by Guest Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:18 pm

Huscarls/housecarls/húskalar were household troops or bodyguards for norse lords and kings.
The word can be translated to house man, so it's a "viking term" as it were.

/nitpick :p

by **Cathee Norris** Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:29 pm

Vrykul overall give a very vikingish feel yes. Many names seen on vrykuls seem very similar to Scandinavian names and places, both in the time of the vikings, and now.

by **Gunnell** Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:30 pm

*Stromgardians

Vikings in Azeroth? - Page 3 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6fQ80tIQ8PvUWLv0NsiCkIoWLKzaYpFwWPMMGrWMzk0mrWVAI&t=1

by **Kil'drakor** Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:18 pm

Muzjhath wrote:Second, the comparison between Orcs and Mongols. The only thing I can see there pree the Horde is that they were (from what I've understood) fairly nomadic too a degree, aswell as shamanism.
Aside from that I can't really see many things in common. Aside from the Horde in itself, but it is only alike in how a few orcs unites a people, and then conquers, and in it's "name".

Tengriism is a shamanistic religion that centres the god of the sky tengri. Funnily, orcs have an obsession with thunder and are prone to wield lightning as shamans.
Secondly, the bond Mongols have with horses can be compared to the bond orcs have with worgs.
Like the mongol cavalry, the Horde raiders are revered and feared.
Thrall has united the clans like Genghis Khan united the mongol tribes.
The orcs coming through the dark portal is in a sense an allegory for the mongol invasion of Asia and Europe.
Khan = warchief
Both are a rugged nomadic people of warriors.

by **Rhenchu** Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:52 am

[quote="Gunnell"][quote="Nygarth/Orthur"]

Gunnell wrote:

Red & White National Colours - St George's Cross.

Red and white colours is the national colors of the Danish Flag, Denmark was during the time of the Vikings the greatest Viking Nation around, ruling Sweden, Norway and during their Campaigns to England they claimed England for about ten years.

by **Ixirar** Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:57 am

About the Thoradin's Wall, could it be that they didn't consider a whole lot of threat to come from Thandol Span (which I'm sure had some sort of defense mechanism before it collapsed) and decided to build the wall as an extra layer of defense so "just in case Stromgarde should fall, the wall would still protect humanity".

Obviously I haven't read any of human lore ever, so I wouldn't know if the relations between Arathor and whatever lordaeronian state Hillsbrad belonged to were good enough to allow such a gift. But it does definitely seem plausible to me that it was a "If shit hits the fan and we go down we can flee into your borders and our wall will protect all of us!"

The only other theory I'd find plausible is that it was indeed a mistake by Blizzard. Basing this theory on the fact that the wall apparently protected Stromgarde from the scourge for a while. I find it unlikely to have much defense from that wall if the Scourge was on the controlling side of it.

by **Rhenchu** Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:02 am

[quote="Gunnell"][quote="Nygarth/Orthur"]

Gunnell wrote:

Thoradin's Wall - Hadrian's Wall.

Thoradin's Wall Archaeology findings is Dwarvish.
= Dwarvish Wall? I think so!

by **Ixirar** Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:07 am

[quote="Razlow"][quote="Gunnell"]

Nygarth/Orthur wrote:
Gunnell wrote:

Thoradin's Wall - Hadrian's Wall.

Thoradin's Wall Archaeology findings is Dwarvish.
= Dwarvish Wall? I think so!

Dun Garok.

Edit: And lack of human artifacts.

by **Rhenchu** Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:36 am

Think not. Dwarvish made. No human from Stormgarde could have built such... It's way to similar to Thandrols span

Where the hell did Dun Garok get in the picture? xD

by **Ixirar** Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:48 am

It's directly south of Thoradin's Wall, suggesting it might also have been garrisoned by dwarven soldiers from time to time.

by **Cid** Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:58 am

I friggin' KNEW it was dwarvish!

... well, maybe not, but I had the theories of it being dwarven made.

by **Gunnell** Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:14 pm

The original Greymane Wall also used the model until it needed updating. I doubt Dwarven Architecture would fall into such disrepair either.

by **Cathee Norris** Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:56 pm

It is described "Thoradin's Wall, an immense edifice on the northern border, was once a symbol of humanity's strength and defensive might.", so I don't think it is a dwarven structure.

by **Shaelyssa** Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:06 pm

It could have been built for the humans by the dwarves? I dunno Razz

by **Ixirar** Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:22 pm

Shaelyssa wrote:It could have been built for the humans by the dwarves? I dunno

You don't hire dwarves to show off the racial supremacy of humans...

by **Grufftoof** Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:59 pm

The "palate" of the old (vanilla) world was limited. As such many of the artistic flourishes, or "tell tale" signs are somewhat obscured. The item might look dwarfish, because the game world shows so. But the lore might say otherwise. I think this is in part the issue here. The Wall existed prior to much of the lore that was filled around. And was limited by the (relatively) basic tools and building blocks the developers had when they created the area.

I see the Wall as a second sign of "WE ARE HERE" by the same group who would make a mighty, crazy bridge (The Thandol Span). They're as much symbols to those under the protection/friendship of the builders as they are a protection against attack.

The Vykrul are definitely WoW's Norsemen. Viking. Whatever you wanna call it. Art work, naming etc. All is very broadly "viking". They're sea-reavers who fight and die for their (Death) God (something implanted/surplanted by the Lich King?). They fear and worship their ancestors, the storm and the sea. They throw axes and braid their beards. Their buildings are boats, their language brash and northern and full of cursing. Viking all the way!

As an aside Hadrian's Wall, whilst definitely a protection against some of the "Northernmen" was also a valuable trading post and area. And this was trade from "Rome" to the "barbarian lands". If it was simply about keeping people out, why would you also trade with them? There's some interesting pieces on just how important it was for trade, rather than (as many people see it) keeping the bastards out.

And finally (yay) whilst the Rhorrim were northernmen (somewhere north of Mirkwood I think of the top o' me head) who travelled south - with definite flourishes of something "romantically viking/norse" - they're not the only people who could be seen as "viking" in LOTR. The Numenoreans were great travellers, especially by ship/boat. And they came from the Northern lands. Things especially seen as "viking".

by Sponsored content