Re: Vikings in Azeroth?

by Guest Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:13 pm

Thanks, gnomie. If you want me to correct you in Swedish, gimme me a PM. Smile

Because English ain't my language at all. But thanks for correcting.

by Guest Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:33 pm

Anyone that could confirm if there is a actual viking culture in Azeroth, then?

by **Gahalla** Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:00 pm

As we've pointed out, there is the vrykul. The only other human culture that comes close is Kul Tiras (and only by merit of being a sailor-culture). The dwarves and orcs also have "viking" tendencies.
In a way, the vikings are way too early to be a proper analogy to any of the human nations. If you remove most of the pop-culture you'll land wow as presented comparative to the 16th or even the 17th century (between 1500-1699).

So basically... the vrykul are clear cut vikings. Kul Tiras is a sailor nation, the dwarves and orc have a similar type of pseudo-feudal warrior society that is the popular image of viking society. But there are no clear cut viking humans in lore.

However: As has been mentioned, the server-lore arathorians are very much viking/saxon in style.

(also... the heaviest type, since it is a class of swords and not a specific model, of zweihanders weighed 6 kg and even that is insanely heavy for swords. Most two-handers weight between 3,5 and 4,5 kg. Anything above 5 kg was either striclty decorative/ceremonial or used to cut the legs of charging horses.)

In short? Because that's just how the designers showed it, it was built by the Arathorians. It doesn't match any troll architecture or elven.

"Thoradin's Wall, an immense edifice on the northern border, was once a symbol of humanity's strength and defensive might. Now, the wall has fallen to decay and war. It is collapsed and gaping wide" - Lands of Conflict

Oh, there's no question about that it was made by humans. But it seems to be intended to keep the arathorians out rather than protect them against someone (since it faces them and not hillsbrad). I've sort of always figured it was used by Lordaeron to prevent Stromgarde invasions/raids on hillsbrad.

by **Kil'drakor** Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:05 pm

Orcs are actually more like mongols, but I'll forgive the analogy this time! Smile

by **Gahalla** Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:06 pm

To be honest... the amount of simplication needed to draw the paralell in the first place means viking and mongol culture is virtually identical anyways Wink

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:07 pm

Vrykul are as viking as you can get. Things sound the same. Sometimes it's parts.
Ymiron : Ymir, the primordial frost giant that Odin and his bro's made the world out.
Jotunheim : Jotun -> Giants
Nifflevar : Niflheim
Valkyr : Valkyrie
Utgarde, Balargarde : Midgard, Asgard
Baleheim: Helheim, Alfheim
Brunnhildar: Brunhilde, a valkyrie.

by Guest Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:18 pm

Yeah, Kristeas.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:26 pm

Spoiler:

by **Melnerag** Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:59 pm

I think, Gilneas aside, Blizzard has succeeded in keeping the human nations very IRL-nation influence-free. But as I said, and I keep saying it: human culture in wow is the romanticed, imagined American 'middle age' that never existed. If USA had its own Dark Age and Middle Age, they would like to imagine it in this way I would think.

by Guest Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:37 pm

World of Warcraft is messed up right now, subs, machineguns, robotics, etc. Still we have sword and shield soldiers on horses. It's quite confusing, but still, it's a fantasy game. Smile

Right? Gilneas reminds me of a year 1800 UK in a way.
Arathorians and Stormwind is still in shape, after the great changes of World of Warcraft.
Too bad Blizzard is killing all the fun right now.

by **Magaskawee/Anaei** Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:37 am

IhavenoRPcharyet wrote:World of Warcraft is messed up right now, subs, machineguns, robotics, etc. Still we have sword and shield soldiers on horses. It's quite confusing, but still, it's a fantasy game. Right? Gilneas reminds me of a year 1800 UK in a way.
Arathorians and Stormwind is still in shape, after the great changes of World of Warcraft.
Too bad Blizzard is killing all the fun right now.

How is that messed up? Machine Guns albeit cannons were in use in say 1840ish, and we still openly used swords and horses then. People mix real life into WoW far too much, Azeroth could be wiped out by a Zerg invasion and we really couldn't argue 'logic' into it. BEcause at the end of the day, it's all fiction. No matter what.

by **Cathee Norris** Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:04 am

"Thoradin's Wall, an immense edifice on the northern border, was once a symbol of humanity's strength and defensive might. Now, the wall has fallen to decay and war. It is collapsed and gaping wide" - Lands of Conflict
Oh, there's no question about that it was made by humans. But it seems to be intended to keep the arathorians out rather than protect them against someone (since it faces them and not hillsbrad). I've sort of always figured it was used by Lordaeron to prevent Stromgarde invasions/raids on hillsbrad.

Well, first of all there is the name. Thoradin's Wall (Thoradin being the first leader of the Arathi tribes that founded Strom and Arathor) somewhat implies that Arathorians built it in his honour. But also as you write the text from Lands of Conflict, earlier in that text you can read:

"Thoradin's Wall is a huge wall separating the Arathi Highlands from Hillsbrad Foothills. The wall protected Stromgarde and the Arathi Highlands from the invading Scourge."

So I doubt the wall was built to keep Stromgarde out. It appears more as if Stromgarde built it to keep scourge out. Though that apparently failed XD

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:29 am

Well, turns out human build walls never work against undead : /

by **Cathee Norris** Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:30 am

So it would appear :S

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:31 am

Maybe should dig a ditch and then fill it with water and sharks.

by **Baròth / Olian** Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:32 am

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:Maybe should dig a ditch and then fill it with water and sharks.

>.>

by **Thonian/Gashwille/Markyth** Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:29 am

Kristeas, on the picture you posted with science vs norse mythology. The last image sums everything up, Norse Mythology is so much more awesome than science.

by **Saevir** Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:53 am

Julia / Saihna wrote:
So I doubt the wall was built to keep Stromgarde out. It appears more as if Stromgarde built it to keep scourge out. Though that apparently failed XD

It probably wasn't built with the scourge in mind, since it was already finished before the 3rd war when nobody even knew of the scourge yet.

by **Cathee Norris** Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:00 am

Well the only thing Blizzard lore tell us is that it was there, keeping Scourge out. The rest is really speculations. I don't think Blizzard meant for it to have any specific meaning other the for decorative purposes, hence the very limited information about it.

by **Demurral** Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:38 am

Aniane/Vale wrote:It's the mountain culture, I suppose; the pride, the isolation, reminded me of Celtic- or Roman-era Wales (though naturally not of the Welsh language).

Interesting information though, thank you. I appreciate at least that (in some places, like the abovementioned) Blizzard hasn't parodied real life cultures too closely.

Oi, what about us Cornish? We're Celtic too! Very Happy

by **Sevelle** Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:34 pm

Julia / Saihna wrote:
"Thoradin's Wall is a huge wall separating the Arathi Highlands from Hillsbrad Foothills. The wall protected Stromgarde and the Arathi Highlands from the invading Scourge."

That statement simply indicates that the Wall was a buffer against the Scourge; regardless of which nation it belonged to, a vast fortification stretching along the border would still act as a strong barrier (especially when one bears in mind that, due to the Scourge's limited action in Hillsbrad, soldiers will have likely been stationed at the Wall throughout the course of the war). Seens as it doesn't mention anything about Stromgarde constructing or possessing it, I think it can be safely discarded from this discussion.

As it stands, the most conclusive evidence is that the ramps are on the Hillsbrad side. With that in mind, it seems highly unlikely that the Wall was ever under Stromgarde's control.

by **Cathee Norris** Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:50 pm

So someone not from Stromgarde decided to make a wall and name it after the one that founded Stromgarde? Unlikely.

Besides, the wall has been there for a veeery very long time. Probably so long that it was just created back when all the humans were in one kingdom. It is in ruin now, and even in the Durnholde instance it is ruined, even if in somewhat better shape then now.

With the fact that there is so little lore about the wall to find, Blizzard probably put it there just for the looks, not really giving it much thought as to where the ramps went. But the origins are pretty clearly Arathorian with the name. Otherwise I'm sure they'd explain more about it and why it got an Arathorian name while not being arathorian. It's whats makes most sense really. People just read into stuff a bit too much Wink

Edit; What I found about it at wowpedia

Thoradin's Wall is a huge wall separating the Arathi Highlands from Hillsbrad Foothills. The wall protected Stromgarde and the Arathi Highlands from the invading Scourge, but this was not its original purpose, the wall having existed for many centuries prior to the Third War.

Thoradin's Wall, an immense edifice on the northern border, was once a symbol of humanity's strength and defensive might. Now, the wall has fallen to decay and war. It is collapsed and gaping wide.

In World of Warcraft, the gigantic wall is heavily damaged. In the Escape from Durnholde Keep instance of the Caverns of Time, the wall is in considerably better condition, but still quite a bit damaged.

by **Magaskawee/Anaei** Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:29 pm

Gahalla wrote:
Oh, there's no question about that it was made by humans. But it seems to be intended to keep the arathorians out rather than protect them against someone (since it faces them and not hillsbrad). I've sort of always figured it was used by Lordaeron to prevent Stromgarde invasions/raids on hillsbrad.

There was never record of any human city-state fighting each other, when they splintered most kept very good relations to the mother-state, i.e Arathor before it devolved to Stromgarde. Well obviously they began to fight, but not far enough back for the wall to be built. I personally think the fact the ramps are on the other side is genuinely a mistake by designers. We'll obviously never know, but if I was building a massive wall i'd name it after my national hero, not the person we're trying to keep out's.

by Guest Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:46 pm

Anaei/Vezullia wrote:
IhavenoRPcharyet wrote:World of Warcraft is messed up right now, subs, machineguns, robotics, etc. Still we have sword and shield soldiers on horses. It's quite confusing, but still, it's a fantasy game. Right? Gilneas reminds me of a year 1800 UK in a way.
Arathorians and Stormwind is still in shape, after the great changes of World of Warcraft.
Too bad Blizzard is killing all the fun right now.

How is that messed up? Machine Guns albeit cannons were in use in say 1840ish, and we still openly used swords and horses then. People mix real life into WoW far too much, Azeroth could be wiped out by a Zerg invasion and we really couldn't argue 'logic' into it. BEcause at the end of the day, it's all fiction. No matter what.

I was thinking about the Vanilla WoW, and Warcraft III....there are no signs of a machinegun in those games.
Cataclysm and the later parts of WOTLK completely ruined the fun. There's no medieval feeling anymore in World of Warcraft.
I wanted to play a fantasy world game, wich had swords and shields, magic. Not a game with MASSIVE rifles and robotics.
Lemme say this, eat shit gnomes. Smile

by **Magaskawee/Anaei** Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:52 pm

IhavenoRPcharyet wrote:
Anaei/Vezullia wrote:
IhavenoRPcharyet wrote:World of Warcraft is messed up right now, subs, machineguns, robotics, etc. Still we have sword and shield soldiers on horses. It's quite confusing, but still, it's a fantasy game. Right? Gilneas reminds me of a year 1800 UK in a way.
Arathorians and Stormwind is still in shape, after the great changes of World of Warcraft.
Too bad Blizzard is killing all the fun right now.

How is that messed up? Machine Guns albeit cannons were in use in say 1840ish, and we still openly used swords and horses then. People mix real life into WoW far too much, Azeroth could be wiped out by a Zerg invasion and we really couldn't argue 'logic' into it. BEcause at the end of the day, it's all fiction. No matter what.
I was thinking about the Vanilla WoW, and Warcraft III....there are no signs of a machinegun in those games.
Cataclysm and the later parts of WOTLK completely ruined the fun. There's no medieval feeling anymore in World of Warcraft.
I wanted to play a fantasy world game, wich had swords and shields, magic. Not a game with MASSIVE rifles and robotics.
Lemme say this, eat shit gnomes.

Wow has never been a medival fantasy game, there's always been rifles and there's always been amazing things that would never have been about. THis is a world where midgets throw fireballs. Also robotics that are advanced are from the titans, gnomes haven't really perfected robotics beyond alarm o bots and harvesters.

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