Racism conversation

It ain't difficult. I just don't want, or have to. Because I am not breaking any laws for saying that movie was gay etc. If they feel harassed.. Well.. Good for them? But I don't need to justify how I speak if I speak politely towards people in general.

It's called common curtsy. Actually considering other people's feelings. But it's up to you.

It ain't really about curtsy though when I'm not directing it to a person. I know full well how to be very polite to people. But that doesn't mean I can't be relaxed with friends and act like myself once in a while.

With your friends, do as you please, of course. It's in places where I (well, personally, I don't care all that, but I have friends who do) can, and even in many cases should read it (such as role playing forums, general chat, raids etc.) I think people should show a little more caution and consideration. How you and your friends talk to each other when on your own is none of my business. ^^


XD

Although, at the same time on a forum like this it is mostly a big gathering of friends.

I think everyone realize that it is rude to for example at a cinema exclaim "Lol this movie is gay". But even so it is not harassment. It's just simply rude, because someone else in the crowd might think otherwise (so it has nothing to do with the word gay tbh).

Well, don't you think that when you know that people who feel hurt by the fact that a word that describes them (even though it isn't meant that way, "gay" is still only a negative word - it became a negative word, because it refers to homosexuality, and there's really no way of escaping that fact) is used as a negative, frequent these forums - even when they merely may frequent these forums, it would be rude to use such words in that way? Inconsiderate, at least...

But that is subjective. On more then one level even. First of all, someone that is homosexual might well not give a shit to be frank. Why should they? Surely, like any other person, they have more important things to worry about then if someone slipped the word "gay" meters away from him in a completely different conversation. Furthermore it is a subjective thing because what might not offend you might offend me. For example a lot of people speak of blond in an ill manner, as if blond people had less brain capacity (and it is hilarious that, I might add). But do you see people run around screaming "Oh NO he said BLOND! That is offensive and harassment!!". No, because no one cares. The whole offended subject is completely subjective through and through.

I mean surely, most people have other things more important to deal with then go around and ponder what people use as words to underline a feeling of theirs? No?

Arodeesa wrote:It means something else because it also means homosexual...

You still didn't tell me why "homosexual" isn't used the same way.

when knowing that some people do feel harassed by these remarks, how difficult is it, really, to say something else?

When it's demanded of me, without any real issue? (aka: me harassing someone would be that)
Very.

It's called common curtsy. Actually considering other people's feelings. But it's up to you.

I see no common courtesy on censoring my vocabulary, sorry.

All of you, stop being such Nayans!

*pats* Was expecting that attempt. But that's a name, not a word

Pfft...;<

You gave meh bewbs as compensation, I'll let it slide.

@Julia: You're right, of course. But when someone says, "I'm blonde, and I've heard these jokes and comments all my life, could you please not post them here?" wouldn't you stop?

@Nayan: "Homosexual" is too long a word for people to bother using in such comments. "Homo", "fag", "faggot", "queer", "gay" and other words for homosexual, though, have all been brought into the same group of derogatory terms, just as "nigger" has for black people and such. And if your vocabulary is so limited you think it's too much of an effort to say something else than "gay", it's not I who limit it... The thing is that "gay & co." do not also mean "bad". Their meanings are interpreted as bad, and used as bad.

I'm not demanding anything, though. I'm not completely Nayan. I'm merely asking for some respect towards those who feel offended and actually have the guts to say so, as well as for those who feel offended and don't, but rather avoid yet another place where they feel belittled. It's a valid feeling. Even though such comments aren't usually used to belittle or hurt anyone, if people say they feel bad when seeing them, why not expand your vocabularies to include non-offensive alternatives?

when someone says, "I'm blonde, and I've heard these jokes and comments all my life, could you please not post them here?" wouldn't you stop?

Uh, no? Jokes have a subject. If you remove all jokes because someone who shares the subject is offended, you won't have any jokes left.

And hey, if your vocabulary is that limited that you only know one meaning per word, you're not one to speak

Also, I still haven't seen the word "homo" referring negatively to anything as a second meaning.

See, I can be completely Arodeesa on you and be all holier-than-thou as well, but if you wish not to use the words for whatever reasons you have, so be it. I will, though. Cause I find this hypocrisy to be gay. Capisch?

PS: "Queer" also doesn't have a secondary meaning (that I know of), and is indeed a derogatory term towards homosexuals.

PPS: While we're at it, would you like to also ban "pussy" in the phrase "Don't be a pussy" as "offending to females"? And "Don't be a dick" as "offending to males"? How about "asshole" as "offending to every human being!!!!!1!!111! Animalz too!!!!"? Let's go all PETA, while we're on topic, yes?

PS: "Queer" also doesn't have a secondary meaning (that I know of), and is indeed a derogatory term towards homosexuals.

Queer means odd, I use it without it being related to homosexuality quite alot.

Cheers, had never seen that meaning.

"Gay" means "homosexual" (or "happy" if you use it in the old sense). "Gay" does not mean bad in any way. The term "gay" started being used as a derogatory term in order to offend homosexuals (not happy people). And you continue to use it as a negative, furthering the same attitudes. It's even gotten so far that you actually believe "gay" now also means "bad".

I actually use the words for what they mean (well, most of the time, at least, but not in derogatory or discriminating ways).

And a pussy is something some (about half of the world's population, actually - so they're not even a minority) people have. Gay is something some people are. If I use "nostril" as a derogatory, I doubt I offend anyone, actually.

But you're not staying serious, so I think I'll let you have this one...

I'm very serious, I assure you, your assumption was (again) wrong.

1. How does the number of people having a pussy alter its offensiveness, really? That's quite some creative argumentation there.
2. "Have" versus "are". How does that change its offensiveness? You'd be cheery jolly if someone called you a stupid cunt? Or would you be insulted by the "stupid" adjective only?
3. Nice nostril. Too bad "nostril" has no secondary meaning, though. Once again comparing apples to appricots.

The term "gay" started being used as a derogatory term in order to offend homosexuals (not happy people).

And we're past that stage, so get over it already.

Bottomline: you can think you're right all you want. As I said, it matters little to me, I got tired of that.

PS: And fyi, people on the server who are homosexual, or have such tendencies, can very much assure you I fully respect them as human beings and never discriminated them. Other than that, it's all cheap talk, really. That's what matters. If what matters to you is "use the word i want you to use", I feel bad for you, but it won't affect me in any way.

All I have to say, is that the meaning of words evolve. If you think you're using words for what the mean, I have to say, you're most likely not using them for the original meaning.

Arodeesa wrote:
Secondly, "grow a backbone?" With all due respect, WTF? We're playing a game here. A role playing game that many use to escape from everyday stress and worries. Not all of us want to have to take these kinds of remarks when playing. Some people might actually be insecure about their sexuality. But they should just stfu and take it like men, right?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is the internet. Many people who talk and interact with others through it don't really care about what another person around the globe thinks or feels. It might sound harsh but it's the truth. The usual social behavior rules barely apply on the net, simply because people don't have to justify themselves to anyone about what they say or how they formulate it. Whoever dreams the dream of courtesy and consideration, expecting others to sympathize with any insecurities or other issues he/she may have, will get hurt repeatedly and will most probably end up being pushed away as an annoyance.

We all have the one or the other insecurity, I refuse to believe that there is a single person out there who doesn't, be it for their skin color, sexual preference, various mental or physical disorders or social background/experiences to name some. If everyone was to be careful not to hurt anyone, no jokes or remarks could ever be made, like Nayan said, which will never be the case. Like you said yourself, the game is there to escape from everyday stress and worries; having to be careful about every single word you utter and feeling like an elephant on an ant hive, desperately trying to avoid stomping anything dead, would have the exact opposite effect.

Growing a thicker skin is the only choice in most cases. Or of course ceasing to use the internet to interact with others.

To re-post something that was posted long ago:

Nayan wrote:To re-post something that was posted long ago:

That thing should be able to /thread every ethical discussion of this sort.

Gay is, among being english words to describe happy and/or homosexual people, adopted as slang for "something bad", that's called evolution of language.

Also, if I'm insecure about my intelligence (not that I am, but w/e), should I feel offended every time someone uses the word "Retard" in any way, since that word refers to mentally disabled people, and my insecurity would likely lead me to believe that being a retard is related to being not-so-intelligent.

Second, should I expect EVERY ONE ON THE INTERNET to stop using a word that is -common slang- these days, JUST because I have an unreasonable insecurity? Now, I'm not saying it's unreasonable to be insecure, I'm saying it's unreasonable when you force the effects of your insecurity upon other people. Such as saying "I'm homosexual and I'm ashamed of it so I want all words that could possibly refer to homosexual people, acts, objects, movies or weather states to CEASE TO EXIST!"

Or we could just, as a community, put forth an attempt to be more considerate.

Arodeesa wrote:Or we could just, as a community, put forth an attempt to be more considerate.

I think that would never work

Peoples concepts of consideration are too vague. I've recently spent a holiday with my brother, and a few other lads and during that holiday, the so called insult 'Cunt', was thrown around -alot- that my brain was, by the end of the holiday, rewired to consider it a compliment.

This example aside, I do not consider any insult or joke about blondes to be serious, someone who has been victim to them...Most likely would.

See what I'm getting at?

Yes, ofcourse if during a slip of a tongue...or finger, we speak out of turn or swear, or curse something that someone finds extremely offensive and we're asked to apologise. Without a doubt we should, but I don't think that any censorship of vocabulary should be upheld, simply, just in case.

Arodeesa wrote:Or we could just, as a community, put forth an attempt to be more considerate.

...and stop attempting to censor people just because we feel some words shouldn't be used? Sure, all up for that.

I'd support you 100% if it was something that directly aimed to insult someone. But this is not the case.