Re: Racism conversation

by **Nayan** Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:48 pm

Hardly incoherent. And just for the record, agreed and agreed. Both Lini and Gruff.

by **Shaelyssa** Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:58 pm

What does "/b/" and "/db" mean?

Thanks :).

by **Nayan** Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:15 pm

/b/ - WHEN I WAS www.anontalk.com MODS = FAGS slowpoke1.jpg I wanna marry BAWKSY guis! THE BEST shit was SO cash DESU hay guise do i look hot requesting cp I'm 12 and what is this I don't even She EPIN /b/. If you want to lose all moral value and sanity, feel free to frequent /b/. Illnesses and sexual deviations like retardism and coprophilia have been scientifically proven to be symptoms of browsing /b/. They refer to themselves as /b/tards. They are also known for planning attacks on others using the internet, such as scientologists, Australia, and most recently Operation Blue Crayon, a /b/ based attack planning on attack Justin Bieber and facebook.

^ that.

As for /db/ it's just a "parallelism" between /b/ and Defias Brotherhood. Razz

by **Grufftoof** Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:22 pm

Lini wrote:
You're gay? Great. Good for you. Plenty other people are as well. What does that have to do with us? Nothing. I assume you don't say "Hi. By the way, I'm gay" when you greet someone.

Not usually... Depends. How cute they are?! Or maybe cos I don't much fancy men. As a rule.

Unless you didn't mean "you", you meant "you". In which case *walks slowly away whistling*.

And, you can all have that bit of info about me, for free!

Nayan wrote:Hardly incoherent. And just for the record, agreed and agreed. Both Lini and Gruff.

Ditto, not incoherent at all. And I do agree, even with Nayan! Sometimes anyway. This is indeed one of those points, where, for the main, we are saying pretty much the same things. Just I am saying it eloquently and stuff. You're all grunting and making no sense whatsoever. So people look to me for guidance and wisdomisity.

Indeed.

Shocked

by **Elízabéth Moren** Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:47 pm

b/ - WHEN I WAS www.anontalk.com MODS = FAGS slowpoke1.jpg I wanna marry BAWKSY guis! THE BEST shit was SO cash DESU hay guise do i look hot requesting cp I'm 12 and what is this I don't even She EPIN /b/. If you want to lose all moral value and sanity, feel free to frequent /b/. Illnesses and sexual deviations like retardism and coprophilia have been scientifically proven to be symptoms of browsing /b/. They refer to themselves as /b/tards. They are also known for planning attacks on others using the internet, such as scientologists, Australia, and most recently Operation Blue Crayon, a /b/ based attack planning on attack Justin Bieber and facebook

o_0

And this discuission is really turning into a discuission gay people and gay people showing off the fact there gay, huh?

by **Grufftoof** Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:55 am

Erm, what?

by **Gesh** Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:31 am

Methinks Moren has hit the hormonal period where, HE HATES THE WORLD AND WANTS THE WORLD TO HATE HIM! QQ,

Dude. Shut the fuck up.

by **Elízabéth Moren** Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:34 am

Thats the impression I was getting from this thread.

And if I wanted that I wouldn't have a fairly big amount if friends ;p

And the last line was just un-called for. T_T

by **Gesh** Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:35 am

Elízabéth Moren wrote:Thats the impression I was getting from this thread.

And if I wanted that I wouldn't have a fairly big amount if friends ;p

And the last line was just un-called for. T_T

I've been at the stage you are now, Your posting before your thinking and although I understand, it can be alittle frustrating. It's important you learn to be quiet and listen, read and use abit of empathy before you speak, and/or do. I've seen you do nothing but annoy and agitate on these forums the past few days, and you can't deny that.

by **Elízabéth Moren** Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:49 am

Nope, can't deny that. And while I personally have no idea what empathy means, i'll just agree. Ima thinking enough people have got mad at me for my common sense to kick in and stop posting...

by **Gesh** Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:50 am

Elízabéth Moren wrote:Nope, can't deny that. And while I personally have no idea what empathy means, i'll just agree. Ima thinking enough people have got mad at me for my common sense to kick in and stop posting...

Empathy basically means to consider the other persons point of view and emotional weight.

by **Elízabéth Moren** Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:52 am

Riiiiiiight. - Anyway, lets stop this. Not sure if you can get any more off-topic.

by **Gesh** Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:55 am

Elízabéth Moren wrote:Riiiiiiight. - Anyway, lets stop this. Not sure if you can get any more off-topic.

Uh-huh.

Racism =/= Homophobia.

Homophobia + Racism = Prejudism.

by **Nayan** Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:51 am

@ Shaelyssa : Since I bumped into this today, from a completely different source (TED) :

The founder of /b/ (and 4chan)

by **Koroko** Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:27 pm

Nayan wrote:@ Shaelyssa : Since I bumped into this today, from a completely different source (TED) :

The founder of /b/ (and 4chan)

i've watched this about 3 times now and the part I love most is that when you open the floodgates on freedom of speech as Moot has done, very little of any harm comes to pass :)

in a sense /b/ personifies 4chan - a lot of people (like myself) can't be bothered to read the crap that's on there, but the fact that it is there conduits a lot of stuff away from other sites/boards/whatever. It's there and you don't have to pay attention to it if you don't want to. A lot like being name-called on the internet (see, I was on topic all along!)

by **Nayan** Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:15 am

That is indeed true. Regardless, and to get back on topic: Just because a part of a society hates on another part, doesn't mean the latter has any rights to mute a third part.

Spoiler:

And as someone very nicely put it in realm forums:

The use of the word gay as a general curse word is a good point of discussion. Generally I feel there may be a case for the idea that anyone who is homosexual should not take it as an insult a majority of the time. Words change over time, the original meaning of the word 'gay' was 'happy' (que the flintstones intro: lets have a gay old time!), but gradually its meaning changed, in quite a nice an innocent way, to mean homosexual. I am not sure who decided this, but I presume some gay people decided they were happy and wanted to show it with this word.

Yet as we moved towards the end of the 20th century and the word became the accepted default substitute word for homosexual, people began using it in attempts to insult each other, and then onto everything in general. Now we have moved on into the 21st centrury, for many people the word has that extra meaning, of something akin to rubbish, (that's rubbish!, that's gay!), a very mild curse word.

Now the question is, does its poor origin in this meaning mean can be still seen as insulting? I have to admit I use the word gay in this sense sometimes, purely through upbringing and the language and slang used in the area I grew up, and never once when I say it do I mean it in any way connected to homosexuals or trying to insult anyone.

Homosexuals don't own the word "gay". They stole it the same way it was stolen from them ("stole" is ofc a figure of speech, as such language "thefts" happen everywhere all the time). Understanding the burden you may carry from people being discriminating, is one thing. "Forbidding" the rest to use a word you adopted, is something completely different.

by **Jakins** Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:20 am

Yeah, remember the days when gay meant super-happy? Sheesh, kids...

Oh a side note, people here HATE it when kids go "that's so gay". We went over this in art class and it was surprising the number of people who wanted to punch the stupid buggers in for saying it.

And I mean properly beat them up, I was surprised at the graphical detail.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:22 am

Jakins wrote:I was surprised at the graphical detail.

Jakins wrote:in art class.

:3

by **Arodeesa** Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:16 pm

I think people forget a few important notes here:
The word "gay" have changed its meaning over time, but as a negative, it's used because of its reference to homosexuality. Which in turn means that using "gay" as a negative (a weaker form of "shit", even, as someone said in an earlier post) also refers to homosexuality as something negative.

It might not have been meant that way by the author, but you can't truly say that it has just changed its meaning, and doesn't, even in the everyday "that's so gay" sentence, refer to homosexuality as something negative.

Secondly, "grow a backbone?" With all due respect, WTF? We're playing a game here. A role playing game that many use to escape from everyday stress and worries. Not all of us want to have to take these kinds of remarks when playing. Some people might actually be insecure about their sexuality. But they should just stfu and take it like men, right?

There's a difference, actually, between offending and harassing. And taking offence and feeling harassed. I don't think people who do use "minority derogatory" terms as negatives intend to harass anyone. Not in general, at least. But bear in mind that such usages of these terms always will imply that, i.e. "fag"="bad". And thus, the usage of such terms tells people that there's something negative about being gay, black, Jewish or whatever, and borders, if not crosses over to, harassment towards that minority.

If I told you to quit being such a nigger, or that a healer I was in a group with was a real kyke, I've also stated that black or Jewish people are something negative. It's harassment, and has nothing to do with "taking offence".

I agree with Morgeth in her choice to steer away from offending altogether. I simply don't see a reason to. Claiming that your tank is "crap" isn't that much harder than saying he's gay, is it?

Thirdly, using sexual or racial remarks as insults aren't any more or less insulting towards the one you use them about than other terms, such as "crap" or "shit". I don't think a guy's girlfriend thinks he's gay either, when she calls him a faggot, but she's mocking some side of him that is comparable with common homosexual (perhaps stereotypical) traits, such as being effeminate, or weak, even. It wouldn't be any more insulting to him than being called a weakling. But it's insulting to homosexuals, that hear (when the conversation is held among others) or read it, to hear something they are, being used as a negative.

So, simply, just... don't. There's not much to it, really...

ETA:You know what? Stop being such a Nayan...
(See what I did there? In this context, Nayan = negative. You may laugh at it, or shrug, or ignore it right now, but after ten thousands of times, it gets annoying. Frustrating, even. Hurtful for some...)

by **Cathee Norris** Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:37 pm

But all in all, there is something which is called freedom of speech. As long as you don't direct it to someone, cursing be it a genitalia word, racial word or w/e, it seriously doesn't matter. If someone like to take offense to that then its up to them and their own fault.

As for the girl telling her boyfriend part.. I call sophie a bitch a lot. Still that doesn't mean I'm mocking a side of him that is comparable with a female dog. It's a word, it sounds nice to say when you're pissed off. Same as gay, fag, shit, ass, cunt, cock, nigger. They are words of expression. None of them I in any way refer or think of homosexual people or black people. And we all also know that it isn't even the people that may be homosexual or black that cares. Its others that think "oh no! they MIGHT get offended". Not to mention they call each other that also (as in, black call each others niggers, and some homosexuals call each others fags) Wink

So why shouldn't everyone else be allowed to use the word.

by **Nayan** Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:41 pm

Ever wondered why noone says "This movie was homosexual" to say "it's bad"? No? Lemme tell you why. Because the word "gay", "fag" and whatnot, may be associated with homosexuals, but it's not its only meaning. "Gay" can mean

"Gay" can mean "bad/uninteresting", "Faggot" can mean "coward". The greek word "poustis", which can be used to describe homosexuals in a rude manner, can also mean a cheap person that backstabs you and gets his way done, with under-the-table methods. How come it doesn't mean the same in english? How come you don't say "the movie was fag"? Why don't we say in greek the movie was a "poustis"? BECAUSE THE SECONDARY MEANINGS OF THE WORDS ARE DIFFERENT.

Sure, perhaps the initial origin of the word being used negatively was the negativity towards the homosexuals. Is it now? No. Then, why so stuck-up on it?

WORDS HAVE MORE THAN ONE MEANINGS, UNDERSTAND THAT.

And something else:

Secondly, "grow a backbone?" With all due respect, WTF? We're playing a game here. A role playing game that many use to escape from everyday stress and worries. Not all of us want to have to take these kinds of remarks when playing. Some people might actually be insecure about their sexuality. But they should just stfu and take it like men, right?

Some of us also play this game for the same reason; to escape from everyday stress and worries. Which includes full freedom of speech, as long as it's not aiming to demean someone else. But we should just stfu and "watch our mouths", as if "mommy" was around to spank us, right?

Again: Just because "gay" means "homosexual", it doesn't mean it's the only sense the word has. Deal with it.

by **Arodeesa** Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:45 pm

It means something else because it also means homosexual...

And freedom of speech must yield when it allows harassment.

by **Cathee Norris** Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:46 pm

Nayan wrote:Again: Just because "gay" means "homosexual", it doesn't mean it's the only sense the word has. Deal with it.

Tbh might be just me, but I don't consider Gay meaning Homosexual at all. Save from maybe "Gayclubs". Other then that I don't see why people still connect the two, cause it's two different things as far as I'm concerned.

by **Cathee Norris** Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:49 pm

Freedom of speech and harassment doesn't have anything to do with each others. Because if you harass someone, you intentionally target a person saying YOU are gay, YOU are a nigger. Etc. If you say That was such a gay movie, you don't target anyone what so ever (except the gay movie), hence it ain't harassment, or even close to it tbh.

by **Arodeesa** Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:51 pm

We don't agree there, but it comes down to how we define these things. But when knowing that some people do feel harassed by these remarks, how difficult is it, really, to say something else?

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