Racism conversation

Nayan, I want to gouge my eyes out thanks to you, I now have to go to sleep, then think about the images I saw on my holiday

I told you not to go. *shrug*

I am offended ._.

I found this video rather relevant to the discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhbFARO9EtA#

Also

Spoiler:

I was led to believe this was to be a serious discussion about racism.

Then I realised this is /db/

Oh damn, in Russia I can talk loudly on the street, almost anything I want. If I'm too wrong, I'll get beaten ofcourse... But it can't be more than that. Ofcourse I think there are laws. (Though not sure how much they protect homosexuals, since our police beats and shatters their parades, by mayor's orders).

But same for racism I guess. I've never been told that it's wrong to speak such things, but I guess that I learn something from you, europeans. And I've nothing against gays, though I'd never want to be one. Neither I have anything against other races, though I'd prefer to stay white and slavic. That's patriotism. *Nods*

Merandil wrote:I was led to believe this was to be a serious discussion about racism.

It was, and it still is. Just because the odd joking entered to lighten the mood, doesn't withdraw the serious grounds of the topic. It only enhances the fact that noone here means ill towards the topic, but simply discussing it. You know. Like adults.

PS: Amazing what one can find with some digging around. ^^

Gropecunt Lane and the Tickle Cock Bridge. See the amazing names we come up with in Wonderful England?

I lol'd untill my lungs hurt.

Wait... Has this thread reached 8 pages in less than a day?

As for points of view, yes, forget my personal point of view because not once did I say that I, personally, was offended (because, quite frankly, I'm not). Infact, I said others (more accurately, people who campaign against this stuff) probably were.

Not that I've got out the way that this isn't my personal view (and, even if it was, does it deserve to be criticised anyway? Quote from Comedy video: "I have rights!" ), I can type a little calmer.

@Tashun: Firstly, the first part of the argument was in reference more to Nayan's subvert of Vectoria's post:

Spoiler:

So, the first part was, infact, in reference to something.

As for the second part, I am indeed saying that the past dictates the future. We are brought up by our parents to follow the ideals of a modern society - obey laws, work for money etc. - and if each and every parent is so liberal about their language, and the kid is brought up alongside others who use such language, the kid is almost assured to use such language himself and teach his children the exact same.

@Nayan: Due to the semi-large amount of text, it be best if i use a spoiler here too - as i seem to be answering alot of posts...

Spoiler:

@Ajina: I'll spoiler the quote, but reply underneath the spoiler - as my reply would be shorter.

Spoiler:

I couldn't agree more. As for times where similar things had happened to gays, I mention about (for example) Harvey Milk, Lawrence King etc. Most of which involve shootings. Therefore, we can deduct that saying anything along the lines of "We'll shoot you dead" or "You'll share the same fate as Harvey Milk" to be offensive. My point is mostly that we can't technically call others "Blacks", "N***ers", "Yellows" etc. without their permission (unless, ofcourse, we wanted to get arrested for racism) - yet they can call us everything from "Fag" to "Queer" etc. and get away scotch free. True, these words may have alternate meanings, but so does "N***er" - having originated as a Neutral word, turned prerogative by the British and then used by "blacks" as empowerment decades later. Yet, if we say it to them, it is (legally) viewed as racist... that is the only major point I'm making - There is a huge difference between how Racism (most of which you could barely call racism), and other forms of discrimination, are regarded compared to Homophobia (in which even the most blatant cases can be used freely without punishment). The result? There was a TV show I saw (I'll post the name at some point) in which part of it showed two men who were asked to walk in the town hand-in-hand in Southern England. They were called a variety of homophobic slurs by groups of teens and, apparently, had things thrown at them. The thing is, you never see that (anymore) in regards to racism (other than the occasional "Paki!").

Also, completely off-topic, any tips for learning Norwegian? Could you, if possible, inform me a bit about what the Norwegian Culture is like?

Etular. Reading through your reply, it's quite clear you still have things mixed.

Noone here said that a directly offendingly meant "you're a fag" is ok.

We're discussing whether "x" group of people (or individual parts of it) have any right to censor "y" group of people (or even their own) for using a word that is not referring to them directly.

There really is no point in exclaiming that "If someone said "You're a fag!", it's stupid to even contemplate whether or not they were calling you a cigarette, for example. " or that "If one person said to you, "You're a Ba*****", then said "Oh, no, I meant you were fatherless!" - you aren't going to be amused in any circumstances, are you?" because that is not our topic.

Our topic is "this movie was gay", "sup nigga?", etc, etc. No matter how much you fatten your reply with actual offenses that "are not ok", it doesn't matter for the actual topic, because it's like replying and adding "btw, child abuse and murder are not ok". Of course they are not ok, but they also have nothing to do with the topic.

Relax, be cool, stop pre-emptively restricting unrelated freedoms to preserve yours, because you'll only manage to stir up their own survival instincts, and you'll end up being hunted exactly to protect themselves from being hunted. If it makes sense. Dunno how else to explain it.

This topic on the DB forums made me ponder... I want to believe it's not meant to troll and they really mean what they say. But I did facepalm initially. Ah well, sympathetic toughts, I guess.

Aye. Found it an interesting coincidence it popped up just the day after >.> I do think they are trolling, though.

Mark my words, we'll ALL feel gay when Johnny comes marching home.

Meh, I never understood their need for celebrations and parades. Why straight people don't parade? Well, we do, but with diffirent reasons, and not to show that we're straight. Hrm... That's to the reading that thread on DB forum, btw.

So I say, if you're a gay, live a normal life and don't spoil it. I don't spoil that I'm straight, for example. ...though I am straight guys, believe me!

How are your Norway plans coming along?

Nayan wrote:

Merandil wrote:I was led to believe this was to be a serious discussion about racism.

It was, and it still is.

Actually it seems to be more about homosexuality, so as always, I'm still right! Har.

I have to say.. this thread is the biggest load of bullshit i've ever known..

*goes back to farming*

This thread is black. (Makes as little sense as 'this thread is gay', wouldn't you say?)

EDIT: This whole discussion is just worthy of a /facepalm. 'That's gay' is never used in another manner than derogatory. I'm not saying you should get banned because of it, but I'll surely understand if the gays refuse to dance around a bonfire with anyone who uses the term that way. It may be a bit political correct of me to say, but I don't think that anything that defines a human being in such a major way should be used as a derogatory expression.

Gnash wrote:This thread is black. (Makes as little sense as 'this thread is gay', wouldn't you say?)

EDIT: This whole discussion is just worthy of a /facepalm. 'That's gay' is never used in another manner than derogatory. I'm not saying you should get banned because of it, but I'll surely understand if the gays refuse to dance around a bonfire with anyone who uses the term that way. It may be a bit political correct of me to say, but I don't think that anything that defines a human being in such a major way should be used as a derogatory expression.

I both see and understand your point, but honestly? Meh.

If -I- say something's gay, I'll never intend to offend someone who's homosexual by saying it. And if someone still manages to get offended, that's their problem, not mine. And if I, despite all of this, get punished for saying something like that on this forum, it's most likely not a forum I'd want to be part of anyway.

The whole "It's the internet, deal with it -- everyone is blunt here yadda yadda yadda" argument is valid, IF you're speaking to complete strangers. Yeah, nobody gives a shit in that case if you get offended. But I like to think that people that use this forum aren't complete strangers. We're a community (or do we just claim to be?), and because of that a certain degree of respect to one another, especially on painful issues as race and sexuality, should be the norm.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Gnash wrote:This thread is black. (Makes as little sense as 'this thread is gay', wouldn't you say?)

No, not at all. I wouldn't say.

'That's gay' is never used in another manner than derogatory.

It's called a language. "That's gay" = derogatory. "He's gay" = not derogatory.

Tell you what. Let's forget the "gay" part.

Some guy comes towards you, fists clenched, mumbling "you sick fuck!".
Wouldn't you think the context implies he kinda tries to insult you (and then beat the crap outta you as well, but eh)
Lose that image. You're in bed with your gf. She sighs "fuck me". Would you really take offense in it?

Words have more than one meaning. If you want to "grab" a word and isolate it and take offense JUST because it also means something else, that's your problem, nothing I want to be dragged into. Sometimes written speech is hard to decipher when it comes to intentions, yes. "That movie is gay" is not one of these cases.

PS: I refuse to enter the "this is the internet" part of the discussion, I don't believe in it. What I am saying, I'm actually saying it, not because "it's the internet".

I don't really follow what you're trying to bring across here. I never said the word gay is derogatory. I tried to point out that using the word gay in this particular context is, albeit implicitly. So thanks for elaborating on that I reckon.