Rp or PVP gear discussion thread

[Krogon Devilstep]

Moderator message:

This thread is devoted to the ooc discussion about the gear used during Rp-pvp events. This thread has been created to keep the events threads themselves clean. The first posts are orginally from Doriks Thread “The Campaign in Khaz' Modan” and were moved here to keep Doriks thread clean.

Now please keep the discussion civil. Respect each others opinion even if it’s the total oppesite of your own. This counts extra for Krogon. Your tone so far has been rather rude and provokative with no good reason. So I suggest you tone down. I will leave your old posts as they are. However I ask you to write your future posts in a more civil matter.

If anyone including Krogan have anything to comment on my actions regarding this I ask you to PM me about it. Do not take it in here as I don’t want another thread derailed. Thanks.

Signed,
Lexius

If i may stick my 2 cents in regarding rp gear.

it makes things far more unfair when a battle is depending on a sense of 'looks'. i for one hate it, loathe it, and am digusted that other players get to decide if what i'm wearing is IC or OOC. its also mathamtically more likely that some people will have for example more HP than others when you involve 'rp gear' ... becuase some wear level 40 stuff, some wear 70, some half 80.

Blessed were the days when lazy people got killed in pvp as they deserved due to a lack of pvp gear, becuase they WERNT real fighters compared to those who did put the work in for the gear and were real fighters, logic prevails.

and whats this? we may potentially be restircted on what skills we can and cant use, and have to restrain ourselves in battles now? hell no, thats another stupid idea that will create further imbalance for some classes over others. War is not about restraint, going easy or making it fair. Army's are built around having the best weapons and tools possible to make the enemy dead all that much quicker, so give me one reason IC my orc would go easy on his foe's? Logic prevails again.

all this nonsense so battles seem more 'epic' ... and last longer? ... Auto-attack for a warrior is not epic, melee for a mage, is not epic.

in short, this nonsense makes world pvp more complicated, boring and harder to organise, so it occurs less.

solution? Grow a spine and earn your victory's, gear up, try harder.

[Cathee Norris]

Some do enjoy the real RP-WPvP world where a war takes -time-. Realism > Logic. And besides, I don't think it's logic where some people that doesn't really have much more of a life then spamming bg's constantly (note that I mention no names, I mean overall here), get to have all the fun while others that just play the game now and then for what it is, gets left out because they do not have the time to gather proper gear.

Restrictions should be there to make the best out of it for everyone, not just for the side that has the best geared people.

[Krogon Devilstep]

Some do enjoy the real RP-WPvP world where a war takes -time-. Realism > Logic. And besides, I don't think it's logic where some people that doesn't really have much more of a life then spamming bg's constantly (note that I mention no names, I mean overall here), get to have all the fun while others that just play the game now and then for what it is, gets left out because they do not have the time to gather proper gear.

Restrictions should be there to make the best out of it for everyone, not just for the side that has the best geared people.

War has no 'Restrictions'

and thats in regards to Realism.

thanks for the back up saih.

[Guest]

Krogon, its because its not your IC orc being told to "restrain", its -you-.
You don't keep trampling over people knowing the just can't win. That's unfair in its own sense, I am aware, practicly no-one at all roleplays the wpvp they're attending, they do before, they do after, during they only give, or take, orders and then yell some stuff. But how IC really are you?

Which is why, if you're told oocly to hold back some, for the fair of the others, then its that, ooc. Not IC. =P

This have been done several times before rp-gear was this common. Shrogan, for example, often deals up in teams to even the odds.

[Guest]

Some do enjoy the real RP-WPvP world where a war takes -time-. Realism > Logic. And besides, I don't think it's logic where some people that doesn't really have much more of a life then spamming bg's constantly (note that I mention no names, I mean overall here), get to have all the fun while others that just play the game now and then for what it is, gets left out because they do not have the time to gather proper gear.

Restrictions should be there to make the best out of it for everyone, not just for the side that has the best geared people.

War has no 'Restrictions'

and thats in regards to Realism.

thanks for the back up saih.

This isn't war.
This is a game. We play it to have fun, Blizzard over and over encourage you to make the stay for others as enjoyable for them as for you.
That goes for wpvp too, you need to have some OOC-view of it aswell, it's not NPCs you kill, its people, and its not for rating, not for arena points.

Its for roleplay, character developement, fun.

[Cathee Norris]

Excuse me, but this is a game and not real war Hence why there are OOC restrictions at times, to make the most fun for everyone, and not just for one side. Just take it like a man and make the best out of it instead and enjoy it, instead of just enjoying winning cause of unfair gear, cause sorry but you can not do that all the time. That will not be fun for everyone.

[Krogon Devilstep]

Krogon, its because its not your IC orc being told to "restrain", its -you-.
You don't keep trampling over people knowing the just can't win. That's unfair in its own sense, I am aware, practicly no-one at all roleplays the wpvp they're attending, they do before, they do after, during they only give, or take, orders and then yell some stuff. But how IC really are you?

Which is why, if you're told oocly to hold back some, for the fair the others, then its that, ooc. Not IC. =P

This have been done several times before rp-gear was this common. Shrogan, for example, often deals up in teams to even the odds.

I dont mind fair numbers, infact i preffer/expect it at an organised battle. i loathe Restraint, in regards to only being allowed to auto attack in a battle. just try it Vargy, only using auto attack... youl be bored after the hunter has circled you for a fourth time.

and Shrogan is very much against RP gear in battles.

my second problem is that others c cry 'ooc' becuase i use my Quel'delar IC. thats not for them to decide, at all, ever, thats my choice over my character.

and saihna, you just said it was all about realism, now saying its 'just a game', way to be Hypocritical.

[Cathee Norris]

It is just a game yes. And if you want to play that realistically and fair and fun for all, then restrictions and RP gear is quite much more realistic then pimped out pvp gear that well, tbh not a lot of people would use at all; realistically. Quite simple.

And a side-note, you're not really entitled to use the word 'Hypocrit'

And to get back on track: As for the whole event, it does seem quite interesting. I'm curious, do you have gear restrictions so everyone can participate or how is it?

[Krogon Devilstep]

there you go

your deciding what i can and cannot wear upon your own view.

whats out of chracter about a battle hardned warrior wearing the 'fashionable' armour mass produced by the goblins for those who compete in the arena? nothing, it was done in europe in hamburg. the city mass produced over 25% of europes armour sets between 1450 and 1500. any sensible soldier wears what best protects him and helps him kill.

Realism... i wear my armour to win.

its just a game... i wear my armour to win.

check and or mate.

[Cathee Norris]

So basically you don't RP? As you say you're only there to win. Why are you in an RP guild then?

[Guest]

Krogon, its because its not your IC orc being told to "restrain", its -you-.
You don't keep trampling over people knowing the just can't win. That's unfair in its own sense, I am aware, practicly no-one at all roleplays the wpvp they're attending, they do before, they do after, during they only give, or take, orders and then yell some stuff. But how IC really are you?

Which is why, if you're told oocly to hold back some, for the fair the others, then its that, ooc. Not IC. =P

This have been done several times before rp-gear was this common. Shrogan, for example, often deals up in teams to even the odds.

I dont mind fair numbers, infact i preffer/expect it at an organised battle. i loathe Restraint, in regards to only being allowed to auto attack in a battle. just try it Vargy, only using auto attack... youl be bored after the hunter has circled you for a fourth time.

and Shrogan is very much against RP gear in battles.

my second problem is that others c cry 'ooc' becuase i use my Quel'delar IC. thats not for them to decide, at all, ever, thats my choice over my character.

and saihna, you just said it was all about realism, now saying its 'just a game', way to be Hypocritical.

I know Shrogan does, neither did I claim he did. I claimed he have a large ooc-view, thinking on both sides fun when playing.
I attend wpvp because I want some rp-pvp, I do not attend it to end up in a WG placed in a different zone. If you understand what I mean.

Now for the grand finale!
Stop derailing this thread.

[Kozgugore Feraleye]

We've been over this before in-game, and I'll just repeat myself here:

I understand not everyone may like these kind of RP-geared PvP battles. Each to their own, after all. However, let me once again emphasize the underlying meaning of these RP-geared battles.

War is serious business. I don't think anyone will argue over such a thing. However, wars have never finished in just the blink of an eye in which warriors charge in, bladestorm, and emerge victorious over it in just a few seconds. Battles last, and they last for quite some time. We don't like it if we get steamrolled in an attack that lasts for but a few seconds - nor does the opposing party.

So, there's the union. War is serious, but war in a game is supposed to be fun. Fun for both sides. Sure, you can go steamrolling the opponent in a wave of a 100+ gear score compared to the opposition, but where's the fun in that in RP? Isn't RP about having fun and making an epic touch to everything - whilst keeping it in a friendly atmosphere? Sure, it might diddle a bit with the fight's eventual outcome, and I'd like to win as well in order to experience the wildlife RP further into the dwarven lands, but will it truly be fun to arrive there after having steamrolled over our opponent in our battles time and time again? If that were the case, I somewhat doubt we would even have an opponent left to fight to begin with when we make it any further, because there's no longer any fun in it for them.

That's why we'll need clear rules on it as well. However, even with rules involved, we're not seeking to restrict people in what they do. It's not that using an epic level 80 sword is OOC. It's that it imbalances all efforts to make it a fair RP-geared fight.

As I mentioned before, however, I will be stating beforehand whether or not an WPvP-fight will be an RP-geared one or not. That way, you'll know whether or not you can stay out of it if you truly don't like that way of fighting. Each to their own.

[Guest]

As I mentioned before, however, I will be stating beforehand whether or not an WPvP-fight will be an RP-geared one or not. That way, you'll know whether or not you can stay out of it if you truly don't like that way of fighting. Each to their own.

That's always done by the leader, I have experienced, and is no more than right.

Also, Koz' wrapped it up nicely.

[Sanara]

I just make my PvP gear my RP gear and vice versa. Doesn't take a big stretch of the imagination in my eyes.

[(Goggy) - Exilius]

I just make my PvP gear my RP gear and vice versa. Doesn't take a big stretch of the imagination in my eyes.

This is why you don't get invited to the parties!

[Gogol]

This is not the thread for you to discuss what gear to wear.
Take that somewhere else.
You are only cluttering Dorik's great piece here.

[(Goggy) - Exilius]

Alas, some mod could possibly create a dedicated thread to this question/debate?

[Lexius]

This is not the thread for you to discuss what gear to wear.
Take that somewhere else.
You are only cluttering Dorik's great piece here.

Alas, some mod could possibly create a dedicated thread to this question/debate?

Fixed. Moved to a new thread.

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

Would it be... you know... possible to split into a rp gear and a non rp gear group on every side and let them fight each other? Then everyone get's what they want.

And in some recent experience i found the pvp(pve) gear fight to take longer than the rp version.

[Kozgugore Feraleye]

Would it be... you know... possible to split into a rp gear and a non rp gear group on every side and let them fight each other? Then everyone get's what they want.

And in some recent experience i found the pvp(pve) gear fight to take longer than the rp version.

With bubble boys perhaps. But we orcs never had that luxury. In fact, we have a -very- long history with no healers at all, shaman being so unpopular and all.

As for splitting up, I think that would mean we'd have like one orc fighting one dwarf while the rest is off making the big stuff happen. Not sure if that'd work.

Oh and thanks for moving the thread over, Lex.

[Gogol]

I think it's a selected few that makes a big thing out of nothing.
The orginaisers of the rp-wpvp always keeps a good communication up throughout the hole event.
The orginaisers make sure they hear the ones who participates requests(as for RP or PvP gear for example), and then takes it with the other factions orginaiser.
Taking it from there, it's guaranteed that at least the majority get's it's wishes fullfilled.

Latley we have actually been mixing the battles, as of having waves with RP gear only- then both sides just change to the real PvP gear in the next. Witch I personally think has been the most Rock n' Rolla we've had.
The core of it is that the majority seems rather happy with how it is right now, and that the Dirty Dozen here is just banging their drums, for no use really.

[Raelo/Lucanor]

I think Gogol and Kozgugore pretty much summed it up already. Your IC armor might very well be lvl 80 pvp epics (though you risk being that guy who claims to have slain Illidan, Arthas and Hogger personally and in-between became world's best gladiator) but for the sake of balance and realism you should put on some lower gear and only use a limited amount of your abilities. If you're fighting in a BG in full pvp using all your abilities, you're playing a game and trying to be 'the best'. In an rp-pvp battle you're not trying to 'be the best', at least not OOCly, you're trying to reenact a battle, and that doesn't work if you bladestorm in the opposing raid, being done in 10 seconds. It isn't about 'auto-attacking being fun', it's about having the feeling to be in a real battle, where two armies seem to fight a hot battle, instead of being in a raid where you push some buttons to beat the other raid.
I'd suggest that before the battle, both raid leaders repeat the rules and check the gear of all of their soldiers and give comments if that gear is overpowered for a rp-gear battle. If you want to use full-pvp and mash some buttons, go to a BG instead, it'll be more fun if you don't like auto-attacking.

[Krogon Devilstep]

i think people may completely mis interpreted what i meant all together.

i will tolerate having to wear rp gear, just about. aside from on a tangent, unrelated again to the main point was making is that i cant stand it when particular individuals scream that i'm ooc becuase their not happy with what i'm wearing. its not a fashion parade, its my concious choice.

my actual point was in regards to stemming and deciding what skills a character can or cant use... seriously, try fighting a group of hunters with only auto-attack as a warrior, or without charge, or without Bladestorm (i RP a blademaster, WC 3 Blademasters had blade-storm...) you get kited to kingdom come and shot down, enjoying regular boring corpse runs. if its in regards to fairness that someone thinks someone else cant use particular skills, perhaps they should play to their strengths, instead of lining up into neat densely packed lines that make it an easy job for five warriors to Bladestorm them down... which means the problem is about tactics, nothing to do with skills! spread out, take cover, use terrain. dont make the beserking orc war-bands life easier!

"know yourself, and know your enemy, and you shall never be defeated..." - Sun Tzu

If you cut out the only challenging and tactical part of World pvp, by only allowing auto-attack... it ceases to be World pvp, and becomes something else. its not 'Player Vs player' ... its ...i dont even know what to call it, but it becomes a pre planned, closed ended, and ... well, dull.

so if you must cut the inders out of it. dont call it W-pvp, becuase it most definatly isnt.

[Raelo/Lucanor]

What I'm trying to say Krogon, is that we shouldn't want to get the same kick as we get from BG's, since the best way to do that is actually fighting in BG's. Instead, we should try to get the kick from the tactics, the feeling of being in a big battle.
By using less straighforward abilities such as bladestorm and charge, you destroy the feeling of being in a battle. In a battle of the kind we try to create, two armies usually clash their lines against each other and try to be the better party through a relatively slow fight without people dancing in circles while holding their swords out (if you'd do that, people'd just have to stick their sword in the centre of that circle and you'd be dead).
Also, I don't think hunters should kite their opponents. It takes time to load and aim a gun and during that time you can't walk around, and if you use your gun when the opponent is close, he'll cut you down in a second. Hunters should instead rely on the infantry line defending them.

[Krogon Devilstep]

What I'm trying to say Krogon, is that we shouldn't want to get the same kick as we get from BG's, since the best way to do that is actually fighting in BG's. Instead, we should try to get the kick from the tactics, the feeling being in a big battle.
By using less straighforward abilities such as bladestorm and charge, you destroy the feeling being in a battle. In a battle of the kind we try to create, two armies usually clash their lines against each other and try to be the better party through a relatively slow fight without people dancing in circles while holding their swords out (if you'd do that, people'd just have to stick their sword in the centre of that circle and you'd be dead).
Also, I don't think hunters should kite their opponents. It takes time to load and aim a gun and during that time you can't walk around, and if you use your gun when the opponent is close, he'll cut you down in a second. Hunters should instead rely on the infantry line defending them.

again, thats dull as hell, go emote fight in stormwind if thats what you want ;D

its an RP-pvp server. see... its in the name. if you so fondly dont want -actual- pvp, try argent dawn, or blue shielding. youl find your battles get rarer, harder to organise and truelly.. .truelly awful if this came into effect. Becuase if you start stemming skills, it may seem epic before, but IT IS AS DULL AS WATCHING PAINT DRY. becuase i for one am not standing their hitting my auto-attack key, and just watching nothing happen for ten minutes while a dozen hunters kite me, powerless to respond.

But some of us like our W-pvp to be random, speradic, intense, open to -everyone- regardless of gear, regardless of some -pointless- rule set. which afterlal is what this server is Famous for... Large, roaming battles, at a seconds notice.

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