[Project] Hero Class Initiative.

Now then, "whats krogon on about now?" you may be asking yourself. Well... Since the rebellion plot is over I thought it apt i find a constructive way to use my time in helping the development of RP on Defias. Something small, and not too earth shattering but very developmental! an experiment and possibly an adventure!

so, what is this precisely? Well... I've noticed that there have been numerous attempts over the years on DB where various Hero classes and 'side classes' have been attempted to be implimented into RP, but sadly often ending badly or fizzling out all together. Which in all truth is an enormous shame as these unique classes can provide wonderful roleplay in terms of skills, methods and back-story to many situations and plots.

So what exactly -is- a hero class? ...well...

A hero class is a character class derived from the base classes, but with exclusive perks. Examples of these perks include a higher starting level, better starting gear, unique abilities, and class mounts. Another example of a perk is that your abilities can run off something other than mana, rage, energy or Focus.

That was a direct link from WoWwiki. Now theres no doubt much more to it than that, but the 'unique' and 'rare' side of these character types is what will set them apart, is well worth exploring!

Now obviously the Monk/Death knight classes count as 'hero classes', but its not them this experiment is directly concerned with. So which am I talking of specifically? well here is a short list of which I think is viable including side/sub-types (any suggestions/input is welcome) that I dug up from Wowwiki and other sources and applied links to (so people can have a look!). Namely all the ones I have mentioned are either never used or barely heard of in RP:

• Blademaster - http://www.wowwiki.com/Blademaster_%28Warcraft_III%29
  
• Mountain King (Thane) - http://www.wowwiki.com/Mountain_king
  
• Necromancer - http://www.wowwiki.com/Necromancer
  
• Runemaster - http://www.wowwiki.com/Runemaster
  
• Spell breaker - http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_breaker
  
• Shadow Hunter - http://www.wowwiki.com/Shadow_Hunter_%28Warcraft_III%29
  
• Warden - http://www.wowwiki.com/Warden_%28Warcraft_III%29
  
• Blood Mage - http://www.wowwiki.com/Blood_Mage_%28Warcraft_III%29
  
• Raider - http://www.wowwiki.com/Raider_%28Warcraft_III%29
  
• Gunman - http://www.wowwiki.com/Gunman
  
• Demon Hunter - http://www.wowwiki.com/Demon_Hunter_%28Warcraft_III%29
  

Now I have no doubts I've missed some, or are as of yet unaware of them I am open to any suggestions or examples of others. I'm also not stating any solid racial limitations or such, infact I am open to suggestions and ideas around it.

Basically What I intend or even hope to do is find volunteers interested in a particular class mentioned here and follow these stages:

1. Research the class.
   
2. pick a suitable actual game class to represent it.
   
3. build up a small arsenal of unique skills to this class using glyphs/trinkets/in-game items.
   
4. Carry out some very well picked and allocated roleplay using the 'character' to test it out.
   
5. integrate the character into a plot.
   
6. Try and make said character a regular part of particular roleplay events and plots.
   

Thats the long and short of it, in essence. I'l be adding some more to this post in time as the project progresses and i'm hopeful it will open some interesting doors in terms of experimentation and variety in Roleplay on DB.

All comments and input welcome! (and if i missed any 'classes' give me examples and links!)

Thanks for reading.

Just as a note, monks are not a hero class, nor I think most mentioned here.

siegmund wrote:Just as a note, monks are not a hero class, nor I think most mentioned here.

WoWWiki seems to think they are but meh. and indeed, many are not but they are 'sub' types, which I thought worth including.

I can see this doing more harm than good just like when Death Knights first came into the game more harm to roleplay than it ever did good, sometimes things should just be left well enough alone

For example their was one Roleplayer who i saw Roleplaying the "LAST" Mountain King of the dwarves as he trained Princess Anaei Trollbane how to fight. Plus their is the OP badass factor that the person who picked that class will want to be causing borderline Power Rp and God-emoting nothing wrong with people being the simple adventurer with limitations that creates a damn sight more Roleplay than being a master of war mountain king or an incorruptable of the arcane fireball throwing fist augmenting runemaster.

P.S monk isn't a hero class by Ghostcrawler or Blizzard's definition of one the DK is still the only Hero Class within the game.

I play my Death Knight as a Lich and, seeing as Necromancy is so powerfully intertwined with Lichdom, I play him as a Necromancer as well. I picked the Death Knight class because it gives you undead pets to play with and glowing blue Lich-like eyes.

I'm not exactly too keen on trying to formalize my role-play in the manner you suggested, though. I just use these 'Hero classes', as you call them, much in the same way I use characters or motifs from films, videogames and literature for inspiration. I personally don't see the merit of codifying it in a manner you suggested.

My advice is to just do it. Don't overprepare or overthink things. Don't use fancy titles or declare yourself to be this or that or whatever. Just draw inspiration from these heroic classes in the Warcraft universe and use them to enhance your play. The reality of role-play has a way of changing your concepts in practise anyway. Just pick something you think is cool as a character concept - this can be a hero class or anything else, really - and go for it.

What exactly is the point of declaring this to be a 'project'? I have seen plenty of Blood Mages, Liches and Demon Hunters around before, played with various degree of success - so I don't think this idea is very new or is in need of stimulation. It's always been done.

I guess I'm confused what the point of this thread is..? If it's to discuss these so-called 'hero classes' and exchange tips on how to best play them, I'm all for it, especially if there's other folk out there playing Liches. Teach me your tricks, give me your tips!

EDIT: As for the caution of power-play and godmoting, I think that's a fallacious assumption to have about players who decided to play a character based on these hero classes. It's not that these jerks are power-playing because they're playing a hero-class, they are playing a hero-class because they want to power-play. There's people out there that can do that without having to declare themselves a 'hero class' as well and I don't think the presence or absence of the possibility to play hero classes has any influence on the ammount of power-play whatsoever.

Thelos wrote:I guess I'm confused what the point of this thread is..? If it's to discuss these so-called 'hero classes' and exchange tips on how to best play them, I'm all for it, especially if there's other folk out there playing Liches. Teach me your tricks, give me your tips!

Precisely that. An exchange of methods, ideas, suggestions and tools to allow people to play these types of characters that prevents a descent into sillyness or 'OMFG META-POWAH-LAWL' as cerik seems to be suggesting. Many of the classes I have suggested here are quite viable, if the subject of 'power' comes into it, thats down to the person playing it being at fault and not the class.

We play wow in an era where adventurers and such run all over, using a wide variety of skills and spells... yet we the player base are suprisingly limited by immediate pve/pve game mechanics and class selection.

I for one, would love to share how I make my Blademaster character work, and would welcome a chance to suggest some items/ways for others to enhance theirs, so I should say now that I'm not forcing anyone to pick one and play... i'm saying -if- you wanted to ever have a go, why don't we all pitch and see if we can make it work?

Seems a lot of work for a rather pointless subject. If someone wants to Rp a Mountain king, the will. If someone wants to be a bad ass Blade master, they will.

I just feel this sort of thread is to promote a "My character is a hero class and therefore stronger than all of you", which I find as a very short sighted and selfish approach to RP, no matter how much preparation you make.

If you want to make use of a hero class, it comes down to your ability to role play and your ability to the respect the enjoyment of others. Usually if I incorporate what you might call an over powered character, I usually restrict it to specific story lines for certain people to RP against and largely go out my way to avoid random RP encounters where other role players might disagree with the strengths of said character.


Also...thats Not Cerik...look at the name >_>

Aren't these the roleplay classes? Wouldn't it be better to add the roleplay classes rather than restricting to this ''Heroic class''? I know some people play these already.

•    Core class
   
•  Prestige class
     
• Variant class
     
• Racial class
     
• Creature class
     
• Racial iconic class
   
•  NPC class

''A class is the primary adventuring style of a player character which determines the type of weapons and armor it can use, as well as what abilities, powers, skills, and spells it will gain throughout its adventures. ''

Epic core classes
Epic healer · Epic runemaster · Epic scout · Epic tinker

NPC classes
Aristocrat · Commoner · Expert · Soldier

Etc..etc..Etc..etc..Etc..etc..

http://www.wowwiki.com/RPG_Classes

Roleplay? nope, most I've found and posted here are primarily based on In game 'npcs' with unique skills, or WC3 units/hero-classes.

And I seem to have stubbed my toe in the use of 'hero' class... perhaps i'l rename the thread and should point out i meant 'alternative' or side-class, or some such.

O! Well, in that case, let me share some of my tricks.

First...Pets! Vanity pets are great for additional spell effects.

I use a Restless Shadeling quite literally to represent a Shade, which Jean uses to spy on things. It can see invisible objects and is invisible itself, unless Jean reveasl it.

I use the Ghosty Skull to represent individual souls. Sometimes Jean will literally transform them into shadowballs to send at his enemy (Mortal/Death Coil[s]) and sometimes I will just have him 'reap' them by 'attacking' it with his scythe.

I use the item Crystal of Insanity as a generic spooky ghost/shadow/evil spell animation. It causes your character to cower (which Jean does often anyway) and surrounds him with a swirly shadow. I use it sometimes to accompany the summoning of the aforementioned souls and shades.

That's all for now!

Very interesting Thelos, may i make two small suggestions for you to invest time in?

namely...

Antique Cornerstone grimoire for summoning an extra minion.

And...

Shifting Naaru sliver for those fancy spell circles.

Beladon wrote:I just feel this sort of thread is to promote a "My character is a hero class and therefore stronger than all of you", which I find as a very short sighted and selfish approach to RP, no matter how much preparation you make.

With respect, I find it equally short-sighted to discard hero classes as a viable role-playing option entirely, just because some players use it as a way to gain an 'edge' over others. While this may be true for some people who decided on playing a hero class, I don't think it's true for every player; it certainly isn't for me.

As someone who currently role-plays a character that this thread qualitifes as a 'hero class', I can assure you I don't think my character is stronger than all of you. Frankly, I wouldn't know if he is, nor do I give a damn. 'Power' is not a very interesting or important notion for me when it comes to role-play. I'm not trying to win, I'm trying to tell stories and play a role. If the option to play as these so-called 'hero classes' expands the variety of and ways in which I can tell these stories, I will encourage it as a boon to role-play.

EDIT: Oh, thanks for those suggestions, Krogon! I am particularily interested in getting that spell-circle. Somebody will be running Sunwell tonight!

I think Burgen is referring to your dwarf roleplay in the past Krogon, whatever silly escapade it was this time.

In any case.. it is men that honor titles, not titles that honor men. (other races incl.)

Many great hero's or 'hero classes' are there for a reason, if you actually evaluate it based upon WCIII.

1) Paladins. Paladins in WC3 are from the Silver Hand, i.e the well organized elite fighting force of the Church of Holy Light.

2) Arch Mage. Simply really, these are experienced and well trained magi, hence they are given the title 'arch'.

3) Mountain King. Mountain King lore is 'dubious' in WoW lore but from what I understood it's a title, first of all, not a rank, bestowed upon an experienced and well trained dwarven warrior [one that can perform great feats of strength as shown in WCIII].

These explanations can then be stretched across to all of the races in WCIII along with a relevant explanation. Undead, Lich? Well we all know what a Lich is, an experienced necromancer and user of the dark arts whom has either been gifted a phylactery or figured it out how to do it himself.

But yes, the purpose of the thread is murky, I don't entirely understand what you are trying to achieve with it, as in, are we discussing this, are we doing something etc. Perhaps refining the objective/purpose of the thread is good idea so there's more of a focus on what exactly we're discussing, otherwise I fear the thread (and it is a good idea!) may actually be buried / forgotten rather quickly.

Krogon wrote:Basically what I intend or even hope to do is find volunteers interested in a particular class mentioned here and follow these stages:


Research the class.

1) Pick a suitable actual game class to represent it.
2) Build up a small arsenal of unique skills to this class using glyphs/trinkets/in-game items.
3) Carry out some very well picked and allocated roleplay using the 'character' to test it out.
4) Integrate the character into a plot.
5) Try and make said character a regular part of particular roleplay events and plots.

One person whom has succeeded well in this regard would be Drustai, in terms of being an Arch Mage specialized in necromancy.

In any case, if that's the objective, then best of luck.

Krogon Devilstep wrote:Roleplay? nope, most I've found and posted here are primarily based on In game 'npcs' with unique skills, or WC3 units/hero-classes.

Which are all in the roleplay section on wowwiki. There are certain classes not just a ''hero class'' the hero classes are what we play.

Never actually Roleplayed a dwarf... heh.

But yes, i'l consolidate and edit my post later to be a tad more clear.

As for the topic of 'power gaming and gaining an edge for the sake of power', I dislike people who do that. And in one way this thread will help anyone who wants to make a serious go of one of these more obscure character types to avoid falling down that road.

I for one actually -hate- solving problems on my Blademaster with physical force. If it can't be solved wit cunning or guile, whats the point?

Krogon Devilstep wrote:Never actually Roleplayed a dwarf... heh.

But yes, i'l consolidate and edit my post later to be a tad more clear.

As for the topic of 'power gaming and gaining an edge for the sake of power', I dislike people who do that. And in one way this thread will help anyone who wants to make a serious go of one of these more obscure character types to avoid falling down that road.

I for one actually -hate- solving problems on my Blademaster with physical force. If it can't be solved wit cunning or guile, whats the point?

Erm yes you did Rp a dwarf mountain king once that was training Anaei Trollbane and second point is you played as Seiken Trollbane i don't think we need to go further into that now do we?

Burgen wrote:

Krogon Devilstep wrote:Never actually Roleplayed a dwarf... heh.

But yes, i'l consolidate and edit my post later to be a tad more clear.

As for the topic of 'power gaming and gaining an edge for the sake of power', I dislike people who do that. And in one way this thread will help anyone who wants to make a serious go of one of these more obscure character types to avoid falling down that road.

I for one actually -hate- solving problems on my Blademaster with physical force. If it can't be solved wit cunning or guile, whats the point?

Erm yes you did Rp a dwarf mountain king once that was training Anaei Trollbane and second point is you played as Seiken Trollbane i don't think we need to go further into that now do we?

Kodo crap and lies. Now judging by the 'bold' word in that comment i'l take a wild guess that your not actually interested in the topic, and just out to annoy me so...

No no im making a valid point you claim to hate the very thing you do Seiken Trollbane Heir to the throne of Stromgarde,of the bloodline of the illustrious Trollbane family who occasionally walks into meetings claiming to be sent by high command.

Wow. That's about as relevant as Macklemore laughing at R. Kellys piss stained sheets.

Sure, the jokes there, and there might be some relevance, but it's so fucking old that nobody gives a shit anymore.

What did you actually contribute to this thread, Burgen, besides waving your dick about and trying to pick a fight by being the forums biggest asshole. Even Ixirar, the forums biggest instigator of fights, posts more relevant stuff to argue about instead of going back YEARS into someones RP history (which they've since disassociated themselves with anyway).

Especially when it's coming from someone whose interests seem to be Dwarves. Considering their recent notoriety when it comes to making decisions based on NPC characters and councils who are far above them, something about not throwing stones whilst living in glass houses springs to mind.

But as you said.

Burgen wrote:i don't think we need to go further into that now do we?

Edit: Terrible English and grammar corrections.

Yeah, just cut it out now. Locking threads isn't my goal in life.

Specifically, Burgen, just stop.

I'll keep an eye on the thread, hopefully it sticks on track without pointless pisstaking.

Thank you kindly.

I think it's a great innitative. When playing Muzjhath adding some of Krogons "Blademaster" spice in the use of fun potions, pillows, and other mechanisms, getting some cool IC justifications for spell effects that my chracter shouldn't have use for at will (A rather stupid in the way of science orc shouldn't have access to an unlimited amount of explosive arrows).

Same as how I used potions to RP an orcish spirit on several occation (sadly the potions were annoying to get ahold of)

PS, I'd delete all the uncessesary posts.

Muzjhath wrote:I think it's a great innitative. When playing Muzjhath adding some of Krogons "Blademaster" spice in the use of fun potions, pillows, and other mechanisms, getting some cool IC justifications for spell effects that my chracter shouldn't have use for at will (A rather stupid in the way of science orc shouldn't have access to an unlimited amount of explosive arrows).

Same as how I used potions to RP an orcish spirit on several occation (sadly the potions were annoying to get ahold of)

PS, I'd delete all the uncessesary posts.

Glad they was helpful. When I get some more time later i intend to post up a list of all the tools I use for Blademaster stuff.

I am, as well, a bit confused over what this thread is supposed to be about. A discussion over how to best roleplay "hero classes" is what I've gathered, but then you might as well question the validity of wanting to roleplay "hero classes" to begin with.

A person rolling an in-game hero class such as the Death Knight (which is also the only hero class afaik) will do that most likely for gameplay reasons or that it best represents his or her character's role in roleplay. That is very different from trying to actively research a "hero class" such as the Blademaster, Mountain King or Archmage with the intention of having a character with that title. It is, no matter whether one sees it or not, almost entirely about "roleplay power", because you've spent time researching into spells, classes, lore etc to justify bearing the title, because the title inherently has power in lore. The power that comes from it isn't necessarily "my character has x emote power because of y background", but more in a general way of "power through entitlement", the same way a player who has organized a few pvp events dons his or her character with the title "General of the Stormwind Army" and thus argues to bear specific qualities.

If you were interested solely in playing a samurai orc with qualms of isolation or whatever, you could probably do it without giving the character the title of Blademaster. After all, one could argue that the reason we can't roll Blademaster/Shadow Hunter/Archmage etc is because these classes are too powerful in lore. Blademasters were the honor guards of the Warchief, and the Mountain Kings were supposedly the mightiest warriors in Khaz Modan. Power is part of the title.

So once again, that kinda brings me back to the point of not seeing the point of the thread. To me, it seems to some form of control over who are exactly are allowed to bear these hero class titles. A discussion to justify the title and the power that comes with it. If titles isn't the thing of interest here, then I don't think this thread would' exist. If it's about everything -but- the title, why not just respect the lore and skip the title crap?

It may seem like the antithesis of a constructive post, but it's still a thing I'm curious about.