ERP means Durp?

Ledgic/Taoven wrote:

Burgen wrote:Argue it however you want Eselan you shouldn't be doing it in a game where you can expose children to it. That policy is there to protect them but also you from the wrath of angry parents if you want to flout it then fine you can play with the fire you WILL get burned eventually for what you do on WoW and that goes for the rest who do so.

I give children plenty of credit what im saying is they shouldn't learn about it from people like you on the off chance you start messing up or the other more blatant persons who engage in these erotic scenarios which their has been many of in the past.

I'm pretty sure he's said (a few times now) that he isn't talking about people that do it openly, for the eyes of everyone around them. You seem to be continously retorting on the basis that he is.

They're 12 not stupid they can come to the conclusion that two people bent over each other saying and doing nothing with a Crown on one potrait indicating they're in a party can actually mean something.

Burgen wrote:They're 12 not stupid they can come to the conclusion that two people bent over each other saying and doing nothing with a Crown on one potrait indicating they're in a party can actually mean something.

And this is harmful to them how...?

Burgen wrote:

Ledgic/Taoven wrote:

Burgen wrote:Argue it however you want Eselan you shouldn't be doing it in a game where you can expose children to it. That policy is there to protect them but also you from the wrath of angry parents if you want to flout it then fine you can play with the fire you WILL get burned eventually for what you do on WoW and that goes for the rest who do so.

I give children plenty of credit what im saying is they shouldn't learn about it from people like you on the off chance you start messing up or the other more blatant persons who engage in these erotic scenarios which their has been many of in the past.

I'm pretty sure he's said (a few times now) that he isn't talking about people that do it openly, for the eyes of everyone around them. You seem to be continously retorting on the basis that he is.

They're 12 not stupid they can come to the conclusion that two people bent over each other saying and doing nothing with a Crown on one potrait indicating they're in a party can actually mean something.

They also know there is porn on the internet, on tv or available in books and magazines. Far more "open" to them than a partychat they can't see and two immobile characters in a pixelworld. Who -can- be just chatting ooc or being distracted instead of doing what you immediatly would accuse them off. Which then in turn would be stupid indeed.

There is no harm in seeing -nothing- is there? If they -know- then the harm is so to speak already done, because they...OMG live in a modern world where suddenly sex is slowly treated as a bad thing again. Far as I know there is more tits on billboards usually than there used to be. And suddenly Non-moving characters of pixels would be a problem? Pleaaaaaaaase

Emrys wrote:

Burgen wrote:They're 12 not stupid they can come to the conclusion that two people bent over each other saying and doing nothing with a Crown on one potrait indicating they're in a party can actually mean something.

And this is harmful to them how...?

This. So many times.

Burgen wrote:They're 12 not stupid they can come to the conclusion that two people bent over each other saying and doing nothing with a Crown on one potrait indicating they're in a party can actually mean something.

Damn! I'd better not go AFK while in a party any time soon, lest I scar some impressionable young mind forever!

Emrys wrote:

Burgen wrote:They're 12 not stupid they can come to the conclusion that two people bent over each other saying and doing nothing with a Crown on one potrait indicating they're in a party can actually mean something.

And this is harmful to them how...?

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent would you be comfortable with that surrounding your children? Cus i wouldn't be.

Burgen's last point is credible. I've steered my brother away from WoW for that very reason.

Because from everything I have found out about so many people, I was to a point shocked as to how perverted people really are, and I'd rather he was not to come under the influence of such people.

Martha Duskbringer wrote:For some reason find it funny when a gnome say's it.. So Sullee, how is the ERP on the Gnome side of this?

Tiny. Barely noticeable.

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Okay, because there's so many posts I wanted to make sure I was heard!

I have ERP'd in the past but I would never force it upon someone who doesn't feel comfortable with it. It's just an extra if the person my char is dating also does it, if not, then I won't push it.

I'd also like to point out that in one of the very first replies they brought up a link to a forum post, and then they gave a link to Blizzard's rules. These rules are incredibly strict and basically mean you can't swear, make any references to drugs or illegal things so... Where does that leave RP'ers? We're -all- doing things against the rules of the game.

I heard that it was also mentioned about someone's application who was declined. I haven't read it, but I'll just quote Roleplayer's Lament with "Rape is not a backstory", same goes for sex. If anyone is familiar with the site, Roleplayer's Lament, you'll know people do not take a liking to TRP's that are filled with how their char lost their V and then went on to become a latex nun who pleases the cathedral go-ers. (I swear, that was someone's character. *Nod*)

Despite this, there are always bad roleplayers or people who just go too damn far with the whole ERP thing but it doesn't mean we're all like that!

Spread some bunny love, kay? (Bunnies should not be used for ERP - Tip of the Day!)

I'm sorry, but Burgen's last point is the exact opposite of credible. Incredible, perhaps. I'm not sure how this even requires explanation, but I'll try.

Let's break it down, shall we? In Burgen's example, what does the hypothetical kid actually experience?

Two people standing in an inn room, let's say, in a party together and not saying or doing anything.

In this situation, how is any impact being caused? If the kid draws a sexual inference from that situation, is that the result of the situation or of the kid's previous experience and expectations?

Burgen wrote:

Emrys wrote:

Burgen wrote:They're 12 not stupid they can come to the conclusion that two people bent over each other saying and doing nothing with a Crown on one potrait indicating they're in a party can actually mean something.

And this is harmful to them how...?

Put yourself in the shoes of a parent would you be comfortable with that surrounding your children? Cus i wouldn't be.

To be honest, if I were a parent that would be the very least of my worries considering the filth that is out in the open on the rest of the internet. Thinking 12 year olds can't get their hands on dirty material when they want to is just blatantly naive. Two people not doing anything near each other in a party would be the least of my concerns.

Thrakha wrote:I'm sorry, but Burgen's last point is the exact opposite of credible. Incredible, perhaps. I'm not sure how this even requires explanation, but I'll try.

Let's break it down, shall we? In Burgen's example, what does the hypothetical kid actually experience?

Two people standing in an inn room, let's say, in a party together and not saying or doing anything.

In this situation, how is any impact being caused? If the kid draws a sexual inference from that situation, is that the result of the situation or of the kid's previous experience and expectations?

That's not what I am suggesting at. It's the mentality that comes with being a frequent erotic role-player that I want to keep my sibling away from. He has seen the random crap on the internet already, but he hasn't seen what people do in happy private fun time, and while everybody is bound to learn eventually, I find that learning from strangers on the internet isn't exactly the best way.

The hypothetical kid in Burgen's example experiences a need to understand what two people are doing privately. I have a general understanding of what goes through my brothers brain at his age (12) and if he were to walk into a strange building while playing that game at 7pm in the evening to see two naked people lying on each other, he would start asking questions, or "better" yet using the google search function, or even better he would ask the two people involved what exactly they are doing.

For the time being and while the kid, is indeed a kid, I would rather avoid all that completely.

I also don't see how almost tying the blame away from what people do in-game to the kids "past experience", it's kind of obvious that when two people are not wearing clothes and are sitting/physically lying on top of each other as to roughly what they are doing.

Who in this stone age actually strips their char anyway? You sit politely with clothes on and do it in /p ^^ I never take clothes off!

I am a mother and I don't agree to Burgen. Seeing two people stand there or -possibly- running into erp...

Sorry but if I want to shield my child THAT much, I won't even let her on a bloody computer with internet to begin with, OR In an mmo. Why? Because the insults of some people and language used, the way people can mentally tear another down would bother/worry me FAR more than my daughter perhaps a bit sooner than expected getting questions about sexuality. It's bound to happen, they'll grow up.

I see less harm in educating her from sex than I see in others being dicks. Ontop of that...shielding them too much is mentally far more unhealthy than keeping an open mind.

It's best just to leave this Ephitos they're never gonna get it cus they don't want to get it.

I recognize erotic role-play as a reasonable presence under two strict conditions:

1) It is strictly connected to the role-play at hand, a long relationship, so on and so forth. It's not a reason to get off over the internet. The difference between who does which for which is very obvious, of that I assure you.

For a long time I thought Adenah, the poster above ERPed for the sake of it, after befriending her through organizing RP with her and the SIA (some minor torture and blackmail) I found out that her characters erotic role-played for the sense of story driven direction.

I have one or two other people I like talking to that ERP under the same reasons, and I don't harass them for it.

2) Absolute and utter privacy is required for this. The ToS states that sexual presences can be reported (and I have reported those ERPing in public, resulting in bans that lasted quiet a while) and will continue to do so. Absolute privacy means dungeons, remote locations and the use of private channels.

Finally, I find that those actively engaging for ERP for whatever reasons ought to be interested more in how public knowledge of whom ERP's and whom does not affects the reputation of their guild, and of the realm.

We think in images, and when I think of "AD" I instantly think of ERP and all the bad stigma around it. I would hate for that to happen to DB.

Tahlrana wrote:Who in this stone age actually strips their char anyway? You sit politely with clothes on and do it in /p ^^ I never take clothes off!

See you at Stormwind Council like last week then.

The majority is wrong, the minority is right, is that it Burgen?

I know what you need! More love in your heart, for the state of DefiasRP.

Conformity is a good thing.

You know what I think is curious, about the violence is bad sex is good debate?

nobody in that debate makes the argument that instead of allowing both sex and violence for kids. We shouldn't allow either.

Nobody ever makes that argument when they bring up: 'well violence is more horrible than love!"

I just find that curious.

There reason that springs to mind: We enjoy the violence, and don't want that to be taken away from us in the search for not being a hypocrite, and thus we should allow erotica.

But that would be the easy explanation.

personally; exploring why "society" deems sexuality inappropriate for minors, or even being exposed to unwanted sexuality is a far more interesting and even better thing to argue and debate about. than a purely fictive standpoint: violence is bad, love is good. so we should be allowed both.

I state fictive standpoint, since none of us is a fucking brain-scientist here, that has a decent clue on how a young brain reacts and develops depending on exposure to either form of imagery.

Sure you could say: Well I turned out fine! so its okay.
But then the question could be asked: Did you turn out fine? is society actually fine? Or would you be even "Better"! had we known more and prevented certain exposure to your poor developing brain?(We don't know that, and thus relating everything to your personal experience isn't exactly a sound logical argument, Considering you don't know anything else.)


Regarding ERP.

I don't do it. I don't want to do it, I don't even want to be confronted with it. It makes severely uncomfortable, but if you want to do it, keep it to yourself and enjoy your hobby.(regardless of the reason, be it tittilating or a deep character study.)

But I do find there's some severe dissonance here in two cases:

I don't understand how people even make the distinction between Cyber and ERP. I Don't understand the need for ERPers to look down on CYberers even in wow. as if your position is so much more justified than the others. (likewise, I also find it silly for RPers to diss on ERPs and Non-RPers on RPers and down the totempole it goes)
it is stupid it is silly, get over it.

but more importantly I don't understand the habit of RPers to completely move in on couples they find erping and totally go OOC, and tell their friends to come and watch the ERPers.

its stupid.

Senariul wrote:The majority is wrong, the minority is right, is that it Burgen?

I know what you need! More love in your heart, for the state of DefiasRP.

Conformity is a good thing.

In my time when i was around ERP'ers were the minority. Guilds such as Dwarven Rifle Squad didn't and still do not condone such behaviour hopefully.

I am a mother too, and as such would be far more shocked to find my children interested in excessive violence and/or drugabuse then in sex when they hit their teens. I think it is my responsibility as a parent to make sure they have a healthy understanding about sexuality, safe sex and the fact that (unfortunately) a lot of people DON'T only have sex in a long, comitted relationship. I know I won't be able to shield them completely from anything I don't want them to know about. But I -can- educate them so they know what is sensible and what not, and what other people might try to engage them in. So please let me decide how I prepare them for the real world out there, and let me help them make sense of it. Don't do it for me! I think I have a very decent view on the world and as a kid I have been perfectly able to keep sexuality out of my life until I was ready to experience it. And I have known the erm... ins and outs of it since I was about six years old. My parents never shielded me from sex education, nor did they pretend sex was restricted to long-term relationships. I don't feel I have suffered immensely from that knowledge.

think it is my responsibility as a parent to make sure they have a healthy understanding about sexuality, safe sex and the fact that (unfortunately) a lot of people DON'T only have sex in a long, committed relationship.

I highlighted the part in bold.

Do you want your children to learn this over the internet from strangers or from you?

But I -can- educate them so they know what is sensible and what not, and what other people might try to engage them in.

Highlighted, again, it's precisely your responsibility, how would you feel if somebody else did that and gave your child a warped view of these things?

So please let me decide how I prepare them for the real world out there, and let me help them make sense of it. Don't do it for me!

Exactly this, and I ask you, do you want your child to learn this over the internet from somebody else in a very strange and shifty manner, or do you want to be the one responsible for the sexual education of your child?

I have a very decent view on the world and as a kid I have been perfectly able to keep sexuality out of my life until I was ready to experience it.

Both you and I Darilas are very aware of how easy it is things to find on the internet! (This sounded suggestive, nothing to it)

No one would ERP with you Amaryl! Becides which half way through you would have an attack of the light and just make it uncomfortable for your partner.

(Wanna meet in the acherus later? I will bring some wine, no pressure)

Vangrel, the answer to all of this questions stil is: leave it up to me. When my kids are going online (which won't happen for another few more years, at least not without my or my husband's presence) I will make sure to keep an eye on what they are doing and prevent them from surfing to sites that are harmful in my eyes. There are blocking programs for that :p And as for RP online, by the time they would want to RP (IF they are even interested in being as nerdy as their mom), I will tell them about the existence of ERP and that it doesn't reflect a realistic view on sex. They will hopefully know they can tell and ask me anything, and warn me if a situation might occur that is not to their liking. For the rest of it, I will just need to trust my children's own good sense and wisdom. You might be surprised about how wise kids can be.

I'm not questioning your parenting abilities and I'm sorry if that's the way it came across. You obviously have only good intent for your child/children Darilas!

You might be surprised about how wise kids can be.

I was an expert liar and thief at the tender age of 12, so no, I wouldn't be surprised!

The point I am making Darilas is that, if ERP is encouraged and consistently allowed and forwarded as something acceptable, then should your children/child be online and role-play they are more likely to be exposed to something you frown upon.