Re: To our Alliance and their guild leaders. An encouragment. [DO LOCK THREAD PLEASE. ]

[Drustai]

The 'standards' are a matter of common acceptance, really. No one person or even one group really 'sets' them. And yes, what is 'good' RP for some might be 'bad' RP for others, though usually most people's opinions are pretty similar. I think in this case, for example, that most people agree in principle with the topic, even if there might be differences on the specifics. Usually, those differences are not hard to work around in RP.

(which incidently it isn't, if we're lore policing, the command centre is the building further up from SI:7 HQ)

The Regiment used to use the other building, but after Cataclysm made it an OOCer area by dumping all the vendors there, they switched to the SI:7 building. Which is a shame, the real CC has a much better jail.

[Hermie]

Approved. If my 'clown' ever gets caught in his 'business', then I am happy to receive death if the captors seem fit! Lovely thread!

[siegmund]

(edit) ps in this situation I always use my toons quirks to my advantage.. take this exact emote you got lorrane

"-throws an axe at Monrena's back." reply /e monny would accidently trip on cobble and fall over.. the axe sailing over her head.. she groans and turns over seeing the angry man and tries to run"

"-throws an axe at Shentin's back." Reply /e shentin would feel a thud as sumthing buries itself in her back.. she looks around seeing the angry human beffor wrenching the now maggot coated axe from her back beffor tossing it into the cannal

as such know your own toon.. there is always a way to "accidently" avoid these meta kill shots whilst keeping it ic and in such a way you dont ignore the attackers emote.. this way its a win win and everybody is happy (edit)

This is generally the best way to deal with it, i use it as well at times. If you don't see it coming it's time to have some "bad" luck and trip.

Or hey if i were at the canal:
"*Throws and axe at Siegmunds head*"
My response:
"The heavy axe hits him in the back, as he struggles to keep balance as he trips and falls into the canal and a red pool of blood appearing on the waters surface"

Now this though gets you wounded but have a chance to escape as well and the killer "might" think you are dead.

Though i agree that mugging at any place any time is a bit strange, unless you are a desperate beggar who has nothing to lose.

I got close to death on both my chars a few times:

My rogue:
-Was second in line for execution for which he gave himself up, though he was excused and the one who ordered the murders took his place (And lost his head might i add)
-Beaten up like a dog by two cartels and ironically a dog in the shady lady
-Can't remember the rest, but he was in jail once because he had acquired the key to the CC prison (By kidnapping an ex member of regiment that still possessed he key - Lucky that they didn't know how how he got it )

As for my lock i can say it was all in one day. First before a event with DoLs, when tho Chapterians were hot on my tail (Enter hide behind the corner trick), only to be caught up to and "Held up at gunpoint, assisted (the assistie was captured and escaped - which the Chapters suggested themselves), kicked a lot of times and rolled down into a wall face first.

Then later after his elusive and fiery escape and Greniers event- demonic portal opening had a beating by several DoLs (Lucky again, Imps make good distractions)

I had fun in all of these, dying is always a possibility, but i'd rather die in a fight than get my head chopped off and be put in Samians Trophy room and have mayonnaise spilled all over my face. *Cough, True story*

Well unless i slip off so bad that i don't have a choice, just please burn my body i can't bear the suffering!

[Guest]

Seems to be right on time, to have this topic again.

You could nearly set your clock on this thread coming up.

[Sanara]

I strongly disagree with the main point made in this thread, actually. Too many people - villains, "good guys" and especially guards (or people considering themselves guards), seem to take IC death way too lightly, with little concern for their counterparts' perspective.

The only time I broke the law IC was when Sanara killed a Chapterite in self-defense, which was followed by a whole slew of very stupid people OOCly demanding that I kill off Sanara because of it.

The feel that I get from people's comments in this thread, at least, seems to be that I should let my primary, most developed character be executed because she did the universe a favour by killing a guy dumb enough to pull guns on her? Yeah, how about "no"? I've got better things to use the character for than killing her off because of some butthurt Chapterites.

If the idea is that only obviously evil/criminal repeat offenders are the ones who should expect execution, then... I don't know, it still seems like a big waste when the only reason those characters are repeat offenders tends to be that they've been developed for a long time, played by people who enjoy them and presumably together with other players who enjoy their presence in their RP as well.

Killing off characters shouldn't be a consequence, it should be part of the story, I think. (Edit with an example: Seiken's death. Or, his first death. The one where SGE nailed him to a tree. That was really well-done and set up interesting RP in its wake, I felt!)

[Sohan]

The Regiment used to use the other building, but after Cataclysm made it an OOCer area by dumping all the vendors there, they switched to the SI:7 building. Which is a shame, the real CC has a much better jail.

I totally agree. The CC is a better building overall, in my opinion, but due to all the constant OOCers it's really annoying to guard the door and still point out beginner RPers, without any RP addons, and the OOCers.

I strongly disagree with the main point made in this thread, actually. Too many people - villains, "good guys" and especially guards (or people considering themselves guards), seem to take IC death way too lightly, with little concern for their counterparts' perspective.

The only time I broke the law IC was when Sanara killed a Chapterite in self-defense, which was followed by a whole slew of very stupid people OOCly demanding that I kill off Sanara because of it.

The feel that I get from people's comments in this thread, at least, seems to be that I should let my primary, most developed character be executed because she did the universe a favour by killing a guy dumb enough to pull guns on her? Yeah, how about "no"? I've got better things to use the character for than killing her off because of some butthurt Chapterites.

If the idea is that only obviously evil/criminal repeat offenders are the ones who should expect execution, then... I don't know, it still seems like a big waste when the only reason those characters are repeat offenders tends to be that they've been developed for a long time, played by people who enjoy them and presumably together with other players who enjoy their presence in their RP as well.

Killing off characters shouldn't be a consequence, it should be part of the story, I think. (Edit with an example: Seiken's death. Or, his first death. The one where SGE nailed him to a tree. That was really well-done and set up interesting RP in its wake, I felt!)

Personally, I would never, ever, give the punishment of death to a prisoner. Unless he/she wants to or if he/she has commited all crimes possible by the Stormwind Laws. Simply killing a character for one murder is not logic sense even IRL, unless the murdered in question is a politican, king, magistrate etc etc. But a simple murder on a civilian should not be punished by beheading.
But everyone have their own opinion on the subject.

[Ledgic]

As always, this thread subject is silly and pointless. And old.

People will kill their characters off as and when they want to. They will not be pressured to kill them off if they have no interest in their story ending.

I've lost a couple of characters, but they've died on my terms. Fancy knowing why?

Because they're my characters. I highly doubt I'm the only person on the server that will think in a similar fashion.

Take the example about the axe to the back. Would I respond to a godemote about taking an axe to the back? Would I fuck. Would I waste my time dodging and having to engage with a fellow RP'er that has such little respect/knowledge as to godemote in such in a way in the first place? Would I fuck.

[Sanara]

People will kill their characters off as and when they want to. They will not be pressured to kill them off if they have no interest in their story ending.

Pretty much what I agree on. It's not like you can enforce a character dying on someone who doesn't want it, no matter how much you might think that it's "appropriate" for their character to die under those circumstances anyway - and anyone who tells someone that their character should die under those circumstances "or you're a bad RPer" is a bloody idiot and likely to end up ignored.

[Seranita]

Take the example about the axe to the back. Would I respond to a godemote about taking an axe to the back? Would I fuck. Would I waste my time dodging and having to engage with a fellow RP'er that has such little respect/knowledge as to godemote in such in a way in the first place? Would I fuck.

this personaly i do strongly dissagree with.. Doing this makes you just as bad as those hurling the godemote at you in the first place,
also look on the flip side, the "axe thrower" could be a new rp'er.. someone who does not yet know the terms and definition of "god emoting" and "power emoting" as such ignoring this ammounts to nothing more than excluding a potential new rp'er from rp'ing
think if you had just enterd an rp server and started rp'ing for the first time.. strange circumstances leades to this very moment.. you have no idea on trying or anything so you simply pop out the emote only to be ignored,.. its gona make that person feel prity shitty as for all he knows he has done nothing wrong

at the end of the day he would never know unless you "dodge" then give a quick explenation ooc as to why you dodged if he complains"

Personally, I would never, ever, give the punishment of death to a prisoner. Unless he/she wants to or if he/she has commited all crimes possible by the Stormwind Laws. Simply killing a character for one murder is not logic sense even IRL,

indeed I think this needs to be looked at more often when it comes to sw justice *nods*

[Aadaria-Ioanna]

I strongly disagree with the main point made in this thread, actually. Too many people - villains, "good guys" and especially guards (or people considering themselves guards), seem to take IC death way too lightly, with little concern for their counterparts' perspective.

The main point in the thread usually is in the first post. Which is about and I will repeat it

Those who keep putting their character in a spot where they should logicly been killed, and uses the"I dont want my char to die"Free card. Now this doesnt -fit - any better with your char Sanara then it does with JP.

Its a thread to ask guild leaders to keep those who basicly make you want to facepalm over and over again, to give these said people a consequences of examplewise a "guild kick" to show that... Abusing that excuse ooc to ic save your character and be free of all responsebuility wont be tolerated. Do note again: Repeditive use of it.. This being those extreme cases where you have 3 guilds whining at you AGAIN, the guard threatening to IGNORE your guild and the rest of the server thinking.. Ahhh that person.. ^^

IT is about REPEATEDLY Abusing that "they cant kill me unless I let them" and to my knowledge, none of the people posting in this thread have repeaditaly abused that. And why since none in this thread fits did I make this thread at all?

Well... Because the guildleaders in roleplaying guilds on this server reads this.. And they surely do know one or two good examples of these kind of situations, to keep in mind when it comes to future people, who simply cant take consequences

Because if they can remain happily in their guilds and keep examplewise walking into the Blades/Cathedral /CC/Anywhere you can think off; trying to shoot random people every night. Then.. What is going to stop them from doing so? Until they are hmm. .homeless? Which in this case means "Guildless" until you "behave" some?

[Seranita]

ah yes .. I am very sorry for my part in the minour derailing from the main point here.. sorry and yes I do agree using the "get out of death" card when placed into ic death situations is obsurde.. Only reason monny has survived as long as she has with death senario's is blind luck,.. poor chareshia was not so fortunate and thow I do support this.. I know half of the guilds I am in do not fully support it this is one of those things as others have stated no one will ever fully see eye to eye on sadly *leaves thread*

[Muzjhath]

The "Simply killing a character for one murder".
Looking back at laws six-seven hundred years ago I think it made quite a lot of sense. Punishments were often harsh in many countries and culture. A pesant got killed for a murder.
A noble didn't, unless it was regiside. But then he was killed for treason. Nobels killing nobles... Unpleasant buisness with corrupt magistrates. If a nobel killed a pesant. Hah, generally no one but the pesants cared. The french revolution happend for some reasons.
I've always seen Stormwind as having quite strikt laws. There's one ruler, one faith, etc etc. And constant war. They'd try to keep disention of the poulance to a minimum and that often happend with harsher laws.

As for the "It's my character only I choose when he/she dies".
The only thing I feel from that statement is that non of you can ever have roleplayed with a gamemaster/story teller. Since then you'd know from experience that chracters should be able to die outside of your terms.
Since if you make an awesome plan, it doens't work, and you get caught. Or you act stupid. Or you plain simply just have bad luck. You can die.
Hell you can die if you surrender to the wrong people at a wrong time.
Even if it's your first roleplay character that you made when you were 14 and you'd played it for close to five years.
One stupid act and WHAM you're dead. It's not part of your story, there are close to a hundred of plots the character might be involved in, including a demonic possetion that had been there from day of creation that was less than half played out.
Wham, gone.
Imo, that's how it should be. It feels like shit. Extreme shit. But roleplayers actions should have consequences. There should be ways around them. (Like bribing a magistrate if you get put on trail.) Yet the consequences should be there.

As for "on my terms" If you do something stupid and get killed for it. Say the example of walking into a cultist lair alone.
Then you die on YOUR terms. YOU choose the action of walking in alone where you didn't know it was safe. YOU didn't run soon enough. YOU picked all actions leading to your demise. It was picked out of not knowing what you were doing, still your choises, thus your terms.
I know many players don't do this, but a lot still do.

The no player characters dying is one of the reasons I got dissilusioined with RP-PvP. Tons of battles, almost never a PC dies. Often most hardly even get injured. I'm not that good at being injured myself but I always try to see myself havin sustained some wounds, and ICly my character would stay as far away as close combat as possible.
After a WPvP battle both sides should be littered with wounded. Broken bones, bleeding gashes, etc etc. Sprined ankles from missteps. You get the picture.
Plate armor isn't a failstafe to not getting hurt. Getting a mace to the face would give you one HELL of a concusion even in that. Your head just got used as a gong.

Ah well, rant over.
Just some points on the "My terms". If you act stupid it IS your terms. You just didn't get good terms this time.
Again I think Maroggs death a few years ago now has spawned far more RP than if I had kept him alive. Yes, I would have RPed more with him, but I don't think as much would have been created because of me.

Yes randomly getting a much invested character taken away from you will feel like shit. But imo it's more likely to feel more fullfilling. IF it's a "valid death". Instead of planning "this will happen and I'll likely die" it'd be a "Hmm, why did he go in there ... Oh... Fuck, crap crap... GAH! *rage" And, after things settle down and you think back on it you might be far more satisfied with a "real" death than a "planned" death.

Back to the thinly vield story of my first roleplay characters death. I made a choise. I said I go out and surrender. My gamemaster was "Really, that what you do?" I answear yes. And well "Well, they kill you!"
I... was sorta speachless for a few minutes, but I accepted it. I didn't expect it one bit, he's more often than not nice, but he would do this if a player was stupid. Same if a player took to long in desidning an action etc he'd stress us on.
Roleplay online almost always lack this.
And I miss that character. A lot, he was TONS of fun to play. But parts of me can see the good in it. He was getting ... a bit to powerful, even if most of that power was on the game masters terms. I would have loved to play more on him. But in the end he died due to my actions. I accepted it, and moved on.

Many people in this thread need to be able to see and think about that and if a situation calls for it. Do the same.

[Quin]

I understand that some people spend alot of time sitting behind their desk, writing out their characters stories and the upcoming plots(Which they'll end out rping with their own alts, basicly singleplayer rp because you have such a wild imagination.)

That is fine with me, I understand that you grow a bond with your characters because of that and you wouldnt want to just lose it. There's a simple way of avoiding any risk to your character which involves not acting like a fuckwit in the "biggest" rp hub of our server, a hub where there are guards for the sake of the REALMS immersion not because people love rping guards so much

What shocks me is that the more experienced roleplayers are still sticking to this whole "I decide when my char dies and theres fuckall you can do about it, also Im going to now tear down this wall and breath some fire over motherfuckers because my well thought out plot involves me being a dragon at heart"

You people with a bit of roleplay experience should not be told that its a social thing we do, its something we do together.

As stated millions of times in the past, no one can force death upon your char because in the end it is up to you to decide it is also up to you to decide wether you are going to be a dick about it or not

There are PLENTY of ways to not get your "main" character which mean so much to you killed or punished for a crime, heck. If you want to murder someone so badly why not just rp that your main hired your alt(level 1 fresh made) to kill someone and if they'd actually get caught you can have them executed lashed branded drowned without ANY consequences for that character you hold oh so dear

[Odgan / Keag]

When IRL someone gets caught for a murder, no matter on who, he gets sentenced. If the murderer then says "No, this is my life and I don't want to spend the rest of my life in prison." then everybody says, shouldn't have killed someone.

In RP, it is the same, you and your character most likely know what the punishment for the, or the to be comitted crime is. If your character then gets caught via RP, then you can't say "Omg. I don't want to get killed." or, you can say it. But when you killed a person you know the punishment, and you have to deal with it.

Otherwise people could simply run around Stormwind killing each other, and when ten guards surround you and make a critical attack on your character, you could say "Lolno, my character, don't want him to die." and continue.

RP does not work like that.

[Sharyssa/Adenah]

The no player characters dying is one of the reasons I got dissilusioined with RP-PvP. Tons of battles, almost never a PC dies. Often most hardly even get injured. I'm not that good at being injured myself but I always try to see myself havin sustained some wounds, and ICly my character would stay as far away as close combat as possible.
After a WPvP battle both sides should be littered with wounded. Broken bones, bleeding gashes, etc etc. Sprined ankles from missteps. You get the picture.
Plate armor isn't a failstafe to not getting hurt. Getting a mace to the face would give you one HELL of a concusion even in that. Your head just got used as a gong.

I just would want to quickly chip in on this one Around the time of the Barrens-campaign (or before) it became a guildwide awareness in KoS that - yeah we have battles and we rp some injuries but, we -decide- ourselves which ones those are. Ever since, I've not done a single pvp battle without rolling before the event started what would happen to my character, same goes for about everyone else in KoS.
What we do is (by use of a list on our guildforums) roll for the place of the injury (head, torso, legs,...) then roll for how severe (how higher your roll the more fucked you are) then the origin of the injury (magic or weapon) and then if either of those what school of magic and which weapon.

This has so far been a great addition to all our pvp events, people cleaved in the head, festering shadow-wounds, broken arms and legs (My own -runner- character had a broken leg back then T_T) Admittedly, none of us rolls for death. I'd agree my character would die for repeated stupid actions but as stated by others, my time, heart and soul goes into my characters and killing them of for a pvp battle is just something I rather not do even if the chance of it would be more realistic <.<

[Sanara]

Around the time of the Barrens-campaign (or before) it became a guildwide awareness in KoS that - yeah we have battles and we rp some injuries but, we -decide- ourselves which ones those are. Ever since, I've not done a single pvp battle without rolling before the event started what would happen to my character, same goes for about everyone else in KoS.

What I prefer to do is, if I get killed during the battle, to roll a D20 to determine how severely wounded my character is as a result of being "taken down" (A 1 is not much at all, a 20 is nearly fatal). What's the point of rolling if you don't get severely beat during the battle? ;P

Characters being severely injured is definately a fun and interesting way - in my opinion anyway - to have consequences for W-PvP battles.

[Sharyssa/Adenah]

I meant with that that we used to decide ourselves -untill- the rollsystem we have :p

[Drustai]

I meant with that that we used to decide ourselves -untill- the rollsystem we have :p

Sanara meant, only using a rolling system if you actually 'die' in the battle. In other words, if you end up making it through the whole battle without dying once, then you could safely assume your character was not wounded.

That is something I also do, it's a nice way of acknowledging your actual performance in the fight.

[siegmund]

I say die when you want to, unless you play solo hero/bad guy since then it's like Flagging yourself for PvP in Sw in front of a Horde raid.

ATM my Rogue is still recovering from his wounds from the Rp- PvP event and my Warlock from another one (Even though he sought out a druid the wounds still need to heal up naturally)

Rolls are a good way to decide wounds or find a creative way for a 1v1 fight /event

Once i saw two gnomes spy on some criminal organization (At least that was the IC conclusion), since they were just at where they held the meeting. Of course they denied it but got surrounded. Threats icly were made and excuses too.

What would you do if you were the Criminal GM/Gnome in that situation?

[Guest]

The only time I broke the law IC was when Sanara killed a Chapterite in self-defense, which was followed by a whole slew of very stupid people OOCly demanding that I kill off Sanara because of it.

The feel that I get from people's comments in this thread, at least, seems to be that I should let my primary, most developed character be executed because she did the universe a favour by killing a guy dumb enough to pull guns on her? Yeah, how about "no"? I've got better things to use the character for than killing her off because of some butthurt Chapterites.

XXDDD

[Sanara]

Once i saw two gnomes spy on some criminal organization (At least that was the IC conclusion), since they were just at where they held the meeting. Of course they denied it but got surrounded. Threats icly were made and excuses too.

What would you do if you were the Criminal GM/Gnome in that situation?

If I were the criminal GM I think I'd support just letting the gnomes walk off with a warning not to come snooping around. It might not make the most sense IC, but it's less ridiculous than trying to kill them just for being present (Leaving bodies around is a great way to get tracked down and arrested since you can't really get rid of all the evidence, especially in a setting that has magical scrying).

[John Helsythe Amaltheria]

a hub where there are guards for the sake of the REALMS immersion not because people love rping guards so much

wtf is this

[Morinth]

People need to realise this. ;_; Too many times have people done the stupidest things in front of me, then walked away knowing fully that they can choose not to die. It really annoys me, especially when they're in a 1 vs 5+ situation, completely surrounded and have spent the last ten minutes threatening you.

I myself have avoided the death sentence many, many times on Morinth. But she's lost a hand and taken many serious injuries on the way. People just find her more useful alive. When they catch her. Which isn't often. \o/ I also roll on injuries to determine the seriousness of it all.

[Quin]

a hub where there are guards for the sake of the REALMS immersion not because people love rping guards so much

wtf is this

german you dumb bellend

What I ment was is that I dont think roleplaying a guard is always that much fun yet in my opinion it adds alot to the "random" roleplay and general feel when walking about the city.

[John Helsythe Amaltheria]

ok

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