To our Alliance and their guild leaders. An encouragment. [DO LOCK THREAD PLEASE. ]

[Aadaria-Ioanna]

There are too often threads, debates and drama about this one little thing and I am not trying to hang you out here Adrianna but your words is a good example. And no this thread is not about Adrianna as I have no idea if she has ever "cheated death".

Just please don't kill them, and I am happy.

Without the threat of actually loosing your toon, all harm is meaningless.

Not really. After all, major harm will set back your character a long while depending on what you play.

Too many people do not want their characters to die.. Too many keep breaking the laws of Stormwind, because they know oocly their character wont die, so they dont care..


Now to make it easier for the guards.. I will say this.. As an encourgament to all guild leaders out there, inform your guild members that if they do get caught breaking the laws while they are in Stormwind, breaking in specific the laws that would lead to death as a punishment, that they if being so stupid.. Should take the price of their crime with a smile... Why? As it becomes very silly for people who are guards to constantly ic and ooc find "alternative" ways of punishment to something that would instantly lead to death... Even without a trial... And lets face it, a name change is no longer needed, people can "name change" through the use of addons. Now if they still keep doing crimes worthy of death ic they should die.. Its really that simple..

And why do I hand this task to all you guild leaders as a suggestion?

Its quite simple really.. Some people will not take it serious and keep making other people miserable, bring bad rep to -your guild- for them repeaditly doing this.. And they wont learn if they know they will have a "home" still anyways... Be harsh to those who repeats their mistakes. <------ NOTICE THE WORD REPEAT: Yes, I know I will have pokes of being harsh here and this is NOT about new roleplayers or those who gets their first times of guidance.. This is about those who "cheat" and -dont improve-.
I know I sound very harsh here but I am not afraid to be. I think if people keep doing stuff rewarding death ic that if they do not take the punishment, guild leaders should take some responsebuility to make them "learn"- Aka kick their asses until they have proved they can improve...

You cant say "Oh but my characters is this way....." and use that as an excuse.. The character is that way, because you want it to be so..

**Incoming follow up rant = My even harsher opinion***

I have been a guard, I have been a bad guy, I have been a zealot etc..
And I agree entirely with the: If you fuck up... You die..

If you dont want your character to risk dying oocly.. Then you will NOT do any actions that should be rewareded with death...
Or "dont get caught!". Not getting caught is not that easy. And even if you dont know the law of Stormwind IC you do know logic IC. No matter what race you play. Or age. Even kids know killing is bad. Fel magic is not something you are born with skills and knowledge of, nor is Necromancy.

There are too many both new and old roleplayers around here on defias who I can count.. In my head how many times they should have died already... But they still do walk around... And then there are those I applaud for never ever having been caught with proof to be able to use against them.. The latter like I said I do applaud, but those who got caught?? Those who still live because they despite their characters actions, did not oocly want them to die.. Well those..

I do not applaud them. Example: Use of fel inside of Stormwind in public = die
Use other form of illegal magic within Stormwind and be caught = die.
Kill someone and get caught = die
Be a cultist and get caught with proof of bad deeds/use of magic = die.
And if you have cheated with ooc "I dont want my char to die" too many times, then I simply avoid them on that character when and if I can.

Now... The Laws of Stormwind does not have a say outside of Stormwind = If you are stupid enough to do either of these things inside of Stormwind and get caught? Then you kind of ask for it.. And if you then do not want your character to die? Then I am sorry but I for one am not going to run about and roleplay with you (no matter who you are ).

I like roleplay to be despite the fantasy world it is, realistic to some degree. That included dying.. It includes staring people down who used advanced spells as instant ones ic, people who god emotes and never learn.. I do whisper people, if they break lore badly in a serious manner, if they use advanced magic as instant spells, if they truly just defy all laws of logic..

But .. This was about dying..

If you do the crime, pay the time..
If you break the worst laws, take the worst punishment

[Sohan]

Thank you! I've been through this situations where a criminal has done horrifying crimes, got caught and arrested and then they're all "You can't force kill my character.." or "I'll just change name and continue.." numerous times and it gets SO annoying after a just a couple of times.

Respect to all the guards who gives you others that "Perfect life".

[Krogon Devilstep]

AMEN!

but i should also raise the point, good guys can die too!

[Aadaria-Ioanna]

I want to specify again though that This has nothing to do with the Wardens

And yes good guys can die too

[Azmariel]

Ya'no...

I think this is the first rant/rage thread I can actually post on without forcing it out of me.


I Approve of this rant and rage!

[Aadaria-Ioanna]

I will bring forth some good examples of evil - criminal people here.

Sophyra: The witchy bitch I love to "hate." Have been caught a few times, should be dead but.. Didnt ask to not get killed, she just, schemed and lied her way out of everything. = applaude

Andrek: The evil one that I also love to "hate". There was never any proper proof... = applaude. (does not mean they did not at times vanish, (the proof that is), witnesses suddenly was no longer witnesses and had no actual proof either.

Skarain: The warlock I love.. Why? Because in the means of magic she has never 1 used it in public and got caught, 2. Skarain roleplays magic in a very serious and proper manner, following lore and real life logic on the ways of use.

None of these three no matter how much I have wished for the death of the upper two.. Have done things and been caught that deserves a proper death of their characters. Which means applauds are needed.

Now we all know a few examples of the opposite.. And I am sure people would be thrilled if more people around were to die. Which is also why I have made chars for the pure sake of ensuring they will die.. As we do need more deaths around.

I am however not condoning people who walks up to someone and tries to kill them for no reason.. That is very much different

[Sharyssa/Adenah]

There's a difference between randomly trying to force a death upon a toon compared to long-winded rivalry and crimes. My own warlock has gone haywire and probably won't even survive at this rate and I'll kill her of would the situation arise that it calls for that.

It's a wobbly line to "protect" characters from constantly having to be erased and characters hiding behind not wanting to be erased despite what they ask. If criminals need victims you -can- ask someone to play a small siderole, keep it realistic. If a good guy is outsmarted for a plotted murder, be clever if you want to live. If you keep running as criminal... in the end you'll have to accept that your plan of RP has consequences.

*leaves stamp of approval and leaves with very little contribution*

[Dreaker]

I was never fan of getting my chars killed nor killing other's chars. Actually in my RP career I only once caused the death of a char (a corrupt councillor).
Creating a character (appearance, background story, habits, relationships with others, etc) is hard. So I always had a back up plan (flash bang, emergency teleporter, etc) to escape in case my char is heavily wounded, outnumbered or I just simply asked the opponents to not to kill my char (Ppl were always understanding).
Of course when it comes to fight with criminals/villains it's make a bit difficult to fight them if they refuse to day (talking from experience). They got resurrected with no effort, they escape from prisons etc. If you wanna be bandit fine do it but be prepared that you probably will hang for your crime IF you get caught.

[Muzjhath]

One of my biggest annoyances with online RP.
People often don't let you kill a character even if by all accounts it should die. I've gotten characters maimed at more or less no preplanning. And I once killed of my -main- on more or less a whim. Partly since I find it silly how there can be tons of tons of wpvp battles and no player character EVER dies.

This is the reason I wish it was possible with "Game Masters". As in people who controlled the story etc. BUt it's just not possible in this environment.

All in all? I approve of the message!

[Ara]

Bob-Day one (1.5 hours) in the cartel.Distracts dwarven guards by starting a fist fight.Mob robs bank.
Bob gets caught. 2 weeks in the quarry,several beatings,starvation and a case of frostbite (causing him to loose 2 fingers earning him a new nickname) later.Bob escapes the fabled quarry.
Yup your actions have consequences .I have always RPed this way.



*Honorable mention for Bob on the lock front*

[Thondalar Stormleaf]

Hey!

Dont worry, take no offence using my words

I usually stay away from deadly situations. I've acted a few times to assist people, but nothing worse then that really.

In general my DK try to tip toe to keep from drawing too much attention.

.. Kinda leads her to get attention tho <<

[Drustai]

I fully agree with this. While Drustai has been twice caught for using illegal magic in the city (though she's only ever used it when it was an absolute last resort), in both situations I was not only willing to take a death sentence, but even specifically told my captors to do what they felt most fitting, including execution if they felt it necessary. My punishment in both cases was left in their hands, and the fact that I am not dead is only because they decided not to take the opportunity. If they had sentenced me to death? Then it would have happened.

Heck. When my character takes massive damage in combat, I roll for death. Not an easy roll to make (1 on a d20 and then 1-10 on a second d20 to confirm), but possible.

If you don't want to die, avoid getting into dangerous situations. If you do get into dangerous situations, then at least play it smart. For example, if jailed, don't constantly fight back and scream and yell, because that will make the guards be much less willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. If someone pulls a pistol on you, then DON'T KEEP TAUNTING THEM. When you do these things, all you are doing is forcing the other person into an awkward situation where they'd realistically kill you. When my character gets in a dangerous situation she knows she cannot win, she retreats if she can or throws up her hands and surrenders if she can't.

In fact, it's people's unwillingness to die that makes the above happen. It encourages stupid actions when people think they're invulnerable. Accept that you can die, be willing to die, and you'll find yourself automatically RPing in a much more cautious (and thus much more realistic) manner. This is why I really don't care for the excuse of, "but making a character takes so much work and means so much to people." Making a character mortal does not mean they will easily die. It just means that their survival takes effort from you instead of being a given.

IC Actions = IC Consequences

[Lexgrad]

This shouldnt even be about Law but just generally. Your char upsets a dark and powerful mage... you should realisticly and within reason be open to being on the recieving end of pain. Too often the pressure is on the bad guys to be executed whilst the good guys are bubbled 100%. Being open to attacks and vengence will make your char rP and give the bad guys a chance to do stuff.

[Drustai]

Agreed, Lex. This thread should not just be about villains, it should also be kept in mind by the heroes, too. In fact, even more so, as the heroes are usually the ones much less willing to die in my experience.

[Aadaria-Ioanna]

I have been both.. I have had a far harder time surviving by walking on the street without doing something bad at all, as a bad evil char. My good characters.. I cant even begin counting how many of them that have died during the years... My list of chars is very long though, so hard to keep track. I also kill them off if I find them being "used up" in the means of: This character would realisticly have died by now...

Laws are laws to me. The guards and we others should uphold it. And people are reluctant to kill off people even when offered because it more than often enough causes rants after..

So its nice to offer but one should actually push on it. If it is according to laws to make it feel more safe for the guards to actually do so..

To actually punish. To actually give proper consequences as I do fear that they 98 % of the time just get grief for it.. So doing it properly.. Seriously without feeling like ass hats.. .Have become a problem. If I am wrong guards do shout out Its just how I have experienced it while being one, heard from others through seven years now..

And all creds to you lot for taking the shit^^ As well as yes, Drustai what Seiken said.. Good guys /girls can die too and they should..

In fact realisticly speaking if people have their vanilla chars alive still they would be quite quite older than they originally were with all these expansions.. and likely dead...

Also something to keep in mind ^^

[Skarain]

Most stories end up with the "bad guys" beaten, which is why there are so few of those willing to roleplay the bad guys... People -expect- them to loose. The good guys should also accept a fact: If you poke your nose into things you should not, or invade a cultist hideout that is prepared to fend of assaults... The first one can bring a dagger to your back, the second one is a very real risk for character death.

Every single Cultist of the Veil of Shadows is killable. Even Gende, the founder and Leader. I do not discourage hunting us down to kill us, because even if my most nefarious plan is brought to the light and neutralized, and i have a few cultists killed i have still achieved my goal; To Create Roleplay.

People just need to acknowledge and accept the risks, hunting the "evil" guys is Dangerous

I tip my hat to the Chapter, which members seem to die away all the time, or least they have a very bloody history on that part. They are good guys only from their own view, and fanatics from the outside. They fight many sorts of evil things and they do not fear death.

[Drustai]

I also kill them off if I find them being "used up" in the means of: This character would realisticly have died by now...

See, this is something I don't really agree with. While death should be more common for sure, it also shouldn't be treated lightly. Death is a very serious matter, which should always come about strictly through random RP. In my opinion, it should never scripted, and never done off-screen, as that cheapens the impact of it.

That's also why I don't 'push' for death. I'll allow it, even suggest it as the most realistic option, but never push for it. I don't want to 'choose' my character's future. I don't want to force it. I want to leave my fate in the hands of the people I play with (or dice), allow them to make the choice. That is the beauty of random RP: not knowing what will happen next. When you start OOCly debating or encouraging certain punishments (or certain plot directions), you take away from the glory of leaving things to chance. I hate doing that, and avoid it whenever I can.

If I die, I want it to be because someone else decided to kill me. Not because I asked them to do it. If someone asks me, "What should we do?", I'll tell them, "Do whatever would be in-character for you to do." That's the only 'pushing' I will give.

My job, as a roleplayer, is to play my character realistically. Not to determine their destiny.

In fact realisticly speaking if people have their vanilla chars alive still they would be quite quite older than they originally were with all these expansions.. and likely dead...

It might be hard to imagine, but there was a point where Drustai was actually alive and not a death knight.

Those of us who have been around since vanilla (or since very early TBC, in my case), have definitely had our characters go through a lot of changes over the years. Dru is actually a much better person now than she used to be.

[Coppersocket]

Well, I say that depends on the kind of RP you get yourself into. If some random person comes up to you and for no reason whatsoever (yes, you know for a fact that there's absolutely no reason) try to kill you, then I believe you have the full right to simply ignore it.
But I suppose that's just logic, anyway.
If I were to get Copper into a situation where it'd be logical she'd die, she'd die. While I have no desire to have her die, I would not stop someone from killing her if the situation requires it.

It'd be sad to lose such a character I've gotten so attached too tho.

[Ralegh]

AMEN!

but i should also raise the point, good guys can die too!

How many times was it Seiken had "died"?
Outa curiosity.

More on topic however, ive had two major trials on Ezlbag where it would make sense that he might get the death sentence, ive made it clear in both that the judge was allowed to murder him if they thought it would make sense.
However i wouldnt let my character die to some random feral street worgen... Unless it was a extremelly well rped random feral street worgen.

[Lexgrad]

AMEN!

but i should also raise the point, good guys can die too!

However i wouldnt let my character die to some random feral street worgen... Unless it was a extremelly well rped random feral street worgen.

Why exactly, I assume you mean some kind of god emoting ninja kind of thing, but if the worg was reasonable would you die? Why would he have to be extremelly good exactly?

[Ralegh]

Why exactly, I assume you mean some kind of god emoting ninja kind of thing, but if the worg was reasonable would you die? Why would he have to be extremelly good exactly?

More or less that.
The reason i put extremelly good is simply that i in general don't quite approve of random feral street worgen (in stormwind that is) So it would have to be a rather good one before i would off my character due to his random worgen attack.

Edit: Oh and there is also the thing of not wanting my character to die in a "random encounter" unless its a very good one, simply i would prefer there to be some sort of.. build up or reason, not just whacked by somebody he never saw before.

[Coppersocket]

The idea of feral street worgen itself is just herpderp IM A SPECHUL SNOWFLAKE.

Ferals are retarded, ferals in a CITY is even MORE retarded.
There's guards basically everywhere. I can accept if you take on the Worgen side a bit more, but bitch please- following the plot of the Worgen starting Zone any Worgen able to enter Stormwind or even getting close to a town, would be Sane worgen. Were it rabid it'd be put down immediately before it even got to the gates.

It's like parading around as a necromancer in Stormwind raising ghouls in broad daylight screaming out that you intend to kill Wrynn. You'd have a crossbow arrow in your head in seconds.

[Aadaria-Ioanna]

That's also why I don't 'push' for death. I'll allow it, even suggest it as the most realistic option, but never push for it. I don't want to 'choose' my character's future.

@ Drustai: As an example for that and I do agree one should not "choose" their characters furture but.. I had come to a dead end with playing Renhali. A new cultist guild was on the rise, so I figured instead of deleting her and her rp, I could do something with her death to make more rp for people. So I poked the guild in question. And I debated this with Jehorius who came in on the idea with me. So together they faced their last moments, giving some new rp for the Chapter, promoted the evil guys at the same time Which to me is far better than to just to have said char "Vanish.". That event was scripted.. And the fact that some did not get that memo and per say ruined the coming event was unavoidable. We solved it.. I had no lust and very little time at all to play her anymore and mine and Jehrorious's ooc work schedual collided big time. Scripted for the sake of us actually needing to book time in our own calenders to make it work. But beyond that I do agree. However at times Real Life does not allow for random rp to solve a matter.

Coppersocket's words:

If I were to get Copper into a situation where it'd be logical she'd die, she'd die. While I have no desire to have her die, I would not stop someone from killing her if the situation requires it.

This = the point

Normally it is not I who put my characters in a position even where they would die... But often enough like being in the chapter, my characters did end up putting their noses in the hideouts of not so.. nice people That does end up with being shot, tortured, killed, thrown in the swamp to be left for dead or it ends up with some disobidiant sphere ending up with trying to steal their soul etc

But when similar things do not happen and it is time to move on..When the roleplay of said character gets far too repeditive and we do speak quite the time before I feel that.... then something must be done I love to roleplay, I get rather attached to my characters but with that I also "Respect" when its time to put them in the memory box:)

That is kind of my point with "I also kill them off if I find them being "used up" in the means of: This character would realisticly have died by now..." If I roleplay some kind of war hero.. We have had and do have plenty of those.. How many full scale battles can a warrior or paladin survive, without loosing an arm, a leg, something big time fundamental.. or be broken up mentally... That is kind of a part of my point.. 7 years of wow time is quite a lot more wow years.. Due to the patches and what not.. My vanilla 40 year old char would by now be? 60?80? I am not entirely sure on the bat of my head But definiftly long gone retired. That is at least my two copper^^

Instead of sending them off on journeys they never return from.... be it by quitting the game, not wanting to rp that character anymore etc.. I do find some means or ways usually to end their rp.. Leaving those involved with that character with a reason for their long termed absence..

or like now.. I sent Reihna off on a trip with Nathaniel when we the players went to Sw tor.. I sent Cendia off on some work for the Kirin Tor or so she claimed , I killed Aadaria, she was too involved with roleplay to just go pooff... That would to me be unfair to the players behind the screens elsewhere And she had outlived me in terms of finding her amusing anymore So choosing the fate of my characters, not per say. But when I no longer desire to log on to play them, they do go. As I roleplay to have fun ^^ And if they stop being fun after 4 years I finish them off

But beyond that they usually die by the hands of others not by my own choice^^ Just my concent.


Elzbag have a good point at a former mentioned point in this thread:

However i wouldnt let my character die to some random feral street worgen... Unless it was a extremelly well rped random feral street worgen.

This!.. Random robber walking by to kill out of boredom making a two lined emote.. = no. A very well roleplay ending with me dead, sure

And in the means of "pushing for it". Its said in a context.. As I do truly think the guards in general... Fear actually asking for it even when suggested for the reason of people 1. Regretting it.. 2. Throwing tanturms.. 3. having to deal with people who does get oocly emotionally not just upset but also very angry over it... So my point with the use of "pushing it" ensuring them that 1.. You wont throw a tanturm. 2. They wont need to get a shrink for themselves after or delete their char to not be raged at for the coming century.. is more of a pat on the back "its truly alright what ever you do.. "

And that goes for the good guys too.. They dont like dying any more than the bad guys do.. And people are often enough angry and ranting for someone not wanting to die, and people throwing fits because they died or regret agreeing to dying, even if it doesnt really happen a lot...

Public executions with beheading and then seeing people 2 weeks after with the same character, same name, roleplaying being ressurected despite the public scene of body parts being removed and what not Is not.. very.. realistical and such regrets of concent does also disencourage people to be harsh... For it is hard to roleplay out some scenarios like not killing of a warlock in the mage districts who uses fel publicly and keep using it while you have it cornered, surrounded... But you can not pull the trigger because the person doesnt want to die, did not flee at its five chances to do so, as it was more important to keep attacking...
See where I am going?^^

There's guards basically everywhere.

Feral worgens, public fel users, nercromancers.. It does not matter really. The guards are around all the time. Its not possible to rp on them all the time, those who dont commit said crime can not rp the non visible guards and people laugh at you if you even mention the supposed many guards at all icly

They have no respect for the "should have been guards...". "The priests would have ensured you did not use fel in the cathedral, got arrested etc... " "The mages sent out working in the mage tower, would likely have done something with the fact you summoned demons inside the tower... " "Kirin- Tor is in Dalaran.. they dont care if a mage goes rogue!"

This is the kind of mentality that some people could need a little lore read up on.. One should play to have fun, yes! But within some
limits one should also consider the lore and the enviorement around oneself. For it is not just -my- playboard - my- world and -my- game. It is the fun, real life time of other people, not just random human 1 and random human 2^^


There are good sides and bad sides with everything, this is just a push from me, for people to take their characters actions seriously.. As most people roleplay characters who can not die.. Because they ooc dont want them to so they can do what ever they want.. which is so wrong.. So what you said Drustai about roleplaying earlier, taking things seriously, being at risk of dying and keeping that in mind.. If everyone had that mentality in place... The willingness of dying should the situation demand it or they basicly.. put themselves in front of the trigger, begging for trouble.. well then this wouldnt be a debate^^ I am just giving my thoughts here^^ And we may disagree on somethings and agree on others^^

[Jeanpierre]

I agree to accepting consequences, but dying IC isn't just a rename of the char in TRP. You loose a lot of story. That's the real effort, in my book.

I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to keep your char alive, just as long as you RP accordingly. If you treat death like a reality, chances your RP will steer you clear of most dangers. But death is sometimes imposed and... where you may claim the "good guys" are bubbled up, I've rarely seen the good guys simply run to a shady fellow and stab him the chest without reason. I can not count the number of "random attacks on JP's life" on 2 hands, however.

I like to use Jean-Pierre in such a discussion as an example of a character who has only done a bold move in his life.. once.. or twice. On each of those occasions I would have accepted his death. But every other part of the day he always tried to steer away from any form of danger. Even politically or emotionally unsettling situations.

And yet... Still criminals try to have a stab at his life. Why? Because he's a priest? He's not even a "big" or "notable" name IC. He's just a small time priest in the Cathedral. So why him? Because "death" is too often used as a means by criminals to carve a name for themselves. Because it was probably their breakfast topic as they munched down french toast with raspberry jam:
- "So what we doin' tonight, boss?"
"Dunno... But we best do something badass that will make a name for ourselves."
- "They always get worked up if we kill someone."
"That's is! We'll run rampage in the city with a mask, kill people off, then take off the mask and say it wasn't us."

Another situation I'd like to bring up was my guard char being killed in the streets. He tries to catch a rather random criminal woman. No weapon was drawn in the conflict thus far. Suddenly he finds himself confronted with 2 street thugs, one with a gun. He surrenders, tries to talk himself out of it. He treats the situation with reality, but also tries to remind the thug of the consequences of the street war he'll cause if they report the guard as missing. The street thug "aims the barrel of the gun at the chest, at point blank range and fires."
Uh huh.
If catching someone red handed with the known, incrutiating punishment of staying in the cell for 1 evening, warrants a death...

Whispering that thug and his GM about this rather excess of violence yielded in banter and laughter and "Ohh.. he's far from dead". Apparently blowing a hole in a man's chest is just a flesh wound. It makes me wonder, however, who was the one failing to accept consequences and just wanting to look badass.

I'll let my chars die if the situation calls for it... But I only set one demand for it: do it with proper RP. The fact few of my chars died isn't because of the lack of trying but the piss poor roleplay that tries to kill them off.

[Cid]

AMEN!

but i should also raise the point, good guys can die too!

How many times was it Seiken had "died"?
Outa curiosity.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if someone travelled through Caverns of Time to fish him out the next time he "dies". That would just be worthy.

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