Fall of a keep alongside the Duskwood - Elwynn border

"A handful" You mean entire Archerus, Valkyrs, Frost Wryms, Abo's... and the Lich King.

My policy is simple: You can't roleplay with NPCs so try to avoid using them as a reason to counter IC events, when applicable. If an event such as this can be coodinated properly it might even be fun, standing around Stormwind psuedo-drinking gets boring after a while. :c

Raelan/Relithien wrote:"A handful" You mean entire Archerus, Valkyrs, Frost Wryms, Abo's... and the Lich King.

.....Geists and the bosses of Naxxramas?

And that, aye.

Eira wrote:

Raelan/Relithien wrote:"A handful" You mean entire Archerus, Valkyrs, Frost Wryms, Abo's... and the Lich King.

.....Geists and the bosses of Naxxramas?

Do people roleplay as geists by the way? The tier 10 helmet for rogues is perfect for it D;

Kih'rin / Mikhael wrote: My policy is simple: You can't roleplay with NPCs so try to avoid using them as a reason to counter IC events, when applicable. If an event such as this can be coodinated properly it might even be fun, standing around Stormwind psuedo-drinking gets boring after a while. :c

Thats all fine and dandy, for say small things. I don't consider "Scourge is alive and kicking" something small. By "ignoring" this you're ignoring a pretty big piece of lore.

Oh my.. this thread has become too long under a day.

First of all, as Jean-Pierre pointed out, Scourge do exist, but maybe we could concider them in somewhat different form. With the original LK death many higher ranked Scourge got loose free and started their own little mission to gather other lesser ones under their own banners. In my opinion it's not that much a united force as back then, but more like smaller forces trying to suck up the even smaller ones. The leaders of these groups either stayed true to the original LK's idea or follow their own vision they wish to acomplish. And thse forces do have their own necromancers and whatsnot to grew their armies.
(On a side note: The whole concept for me seems very much like how it's in SC II with the zerg. Kerrigan may fell and lost control over the zerg, hence no united "The Swarm", but many higher ranked survivors - celebrates and whatsnot - started to build their own zerg armies.)

Second of all, regarding this event, i'm aware it came out quite awkward and wasn't put enough concideration into it. While reading through the pages, came an alternative version in my mind; We could concider maybe that the keep taken was not not Westbrook but some other keep along the edge of Elwynn. Because the world is supposed to be much larger than how we can see it in game and certainly have to be several other structures, not shown in game, within the different areas. So, it could had been another keep, a less protected one, which happened to be not the garrison of those certain units/guilds. Then the upcoming fights we would play it out in the in game Westbrook.

For now this i have to say. Mind you, this is my personal opinion and idea, i haven't discussed it yet with any other officer from my guild. That'll happen this night if everything goes right.

Point remains. Scourge never existed in Stormwind's Kingdoms. Where do you suddenly find this "pockets" and migrate them from? Thin air?

Raelan/Relithien wrote:Point remains. Scourge never existed in Stormwind's Kingdoms. Where do you suddenly find this "pockets" and migrate them from? Thin air?

Didn't they attack Stormwind?

That was when they had Naxxramas floating outside the city, under a very strong, unified leadership. This is different.

I love answering questions!


Yippee!


Okay! Allow me to begin by saying that I am glad I have so much to respond to.
Now allow me to begin

Alright. The idea, the plan, the concept, was to spread anarchy, chaos, and fear into the hearts of the Alliance. Yes, we are threatening everything, that is our goal, to scare the shit of all the living and all the Alliance aligned factions, chaos, terror, apocalypse.

I'm at a loss as to where you make up the numbers, however lets go along with your concept. Westbrook has 2,000 men. In relative comparison to this, every single guild on the realm would be completely insignificant to the faction they represent. Rendering that amount, useless. I know that the world is -supposed- to be bigger, but that would also mean that every guild, order, organization and "force" is bigger. That would be my stance on that.

If I may, allow me to counter this statement with a question - Why should a good guild say for example, Banner of Theramore or (The Lady Proudmoore) as they were called, be allowed to occupy a 2,000 strong Keep, and we could not? The goal is to promote RP, nothing more and nothing less. We aren't stating we defeated King Wrynn's army, we aren't boasting about this achievement, we're simply trying to get fear into Stormwind & and the Alliance.

Point 3: You are completely correct - but again in relation to size and numbers, we were hiding and gathering in Duskwood for the past week, our goal was to attack, invade, burn, blight. Don't forget that one plague bomb would kill dozens, I don't want to argue about the numbers or the fighting because I am sure 15 guild members is nowhere near enough - but again, how can 100 Alliance Fight 100 Horde in the barrens and call it a campaign? I think to properly interact with the IC world things have to be scaled down to have any value, otherwise my guild, and many others would be completely meaningless and useless.

Alright, JP. Yes the whole thing of just storming in etc, well my only explanation would be that if we planned this OOCly, we would have lost, and our goals, our plot and our idea would have gone to waste. It was key, to us, to execute this attack swiftly. A surprise attack, as for your other questions, how about we take care of them in game, they are so vast and numerous.


We would [b love[/b] an army to rally up and kick us out, we already have our escape planned out so we'l just need to do a bit of planning.

(P.S This is another credible aspect to the cultist campaign)

@ Raelan, the population of Stratholme is 50,000, one can assume that is only partially cleansed. If we go along the logic of widening the world, then the population of the Scourge to the Kingdom of the Alliance is still probably 10:1, even only in the plaguelands. Considering Caer Darrow was 25,000 people strong, and the plaguelands itself were probably fuuuull of people.

@ Ledgic, the logic was to create RP.

@ Eira, Acherus does nothing, you can assume and speculate but there is no evidence of Ebon Blade death knights doing anything with anybody except rotting up there

Alright skipping ahead (prod me if I miss anything or leave it unanswered)

Finally, Eselan/Valdar.

What makes you think our leadership is disorganized? If we were to take our numbers at good time and temporarily forget all NPC's (Scourge friendly and Alliance friendly), we could easily be able to match the active Light guilds combined, however point taken.

Thanks for the feedback! I hope to see a retaliation occurring soon.

Jemerick wrote:Lephia is duplicating, or have a twin sister!

Anyway, i truely hope people would look at this as a starting chance for RP and contact us.

Liked.

And she has a twin brother :O

Modified for the "greater good", taking Westbrook was a rash decision.

I assure however that our intention was purely to create RP and promote our guild name for others to come interact with us.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

The numbers I suggest was two regiments (1000 - 1500 men each), since that is practically the smallest logistical unit there is. One for Elwynn protection and one for Westfall. But I did say "the reserve of", which means just the men resting and recovering so in praxis much fewer than 2000+ (at best, half that force).

But anyways... I guess my problems with this can be condensed to three points:

Lorewise, my problem is that you undermine the military capability of Stormwind. The entire point with the Vash'jir campaign is that the horde is trying to take it to be within striking distance of the city itself and the alliance trying to stop it. They committed huge forces there rather quickly.
Westbrook is even closer.
This is essentially saying that either you have such vast forces at your disposal (several thousand, if not tens of thousands) that Stormwind have to take a deep breath before comitting against you or that the city is incapable of defending its homelands.
It's just jarring because it's very contrary to what Stormwind is presented as currently in the lore.

meta-wise, my problem is that it makes you come across as very very powerful. As a direct and credible threat on a global level rather than regional danger to the local populace. As such it's not a problem, it mostly just came very suddenly. There was no build up. You went from a cult hiding in the plaguelands and Ravel hill cemetary to a occupational army literally overnight. It's more of a "how the hell didn't we notice an army in ravel hill" than a "you can't be that powerful".

Had this been built up with many plots over months I would have applauded you... now I'm slightly less positive to it.

My third problem is this with politeness. Just like you wanted to be asked before we act against you... so would most of us have liked. You didn't ask the stormwind community at all. Sure, only a handful guilds uses Westbrook. But it is homeland for a very large amount of characters. Telling us ahead of time would just have been polite. Just like it would be polite to ask before attacking you.

That said. I do think it is positive you created rp. I really do. EVen if this was perhaps a bit too much at once. But I'm glad to have cultists in Duskwood again. So you do have my respects and even if I do not agree with it... I won't ignore you.

I still say we could go with my alternative garrison version, to not let people effort from previous night go into waste.

We are

James Longfield wrote:




Why should a good guild say for example, Banner of Theramore or (The Lady Proudmoore) as they were called, be allowed to occupy a 2,000 strong Keep, and we could not?

Answer: Because they live ALONGSIDE the populace, instead of killing it off like they're merely ants. And they stay within the bounds if the lore of Theramore.

James Longfield wrote:
You are completely correct - but again in relation to size and numbers, we were hiding and gathering in Duskwood for the past week, our goal was to attack, invade, burn, blight. Don't forget that one plague bomb would kill dozens, I don't want to argue about the numbers or the fighting because I am sure 15 guild members is nowhere near enough - but again, how can 100 Alliance Fight 100 Horde in the barrens and call it a campaign? I think to properly interact with the IC world things have to be scaled down to have any value, otherwise my guild, and many others would be completely meaningless and useless.

So,within a week you could raise an entire army. Alright. And that army went unnoticed. You mention plaguebombing. Two issues. Where do you get your plague from? Fabricated it yourself? Doubt it. Just look at the Forsaken, they've spent years developping their own plague. And the original one was made by some very strong lore characters. And two: bombing. Once again, unnoticed huh?

But then again, by saying you can raise/control an army so big, you pretty much already imply you're as strong.

James Longfield wrote:
Alright, JP. Yes the whole thing of just storming in etc, well my only explanation would be that if we planned this OOCly, we would have lost, and our goals, our plot and our idea would have gone to waste. It was key, to us, to execute this attack swiftly. A surprise attack, as for your other questions, how about we take care of them in game, they are so vast and numerous.

Ah yes, RP which already starts off with the issue of "winning" has always led to fantastic things. Atop of that, a surprise attack+large army do not go together.

James Longfield wrote:
@ Raelan, the population of Stratholme is 50,000, one can assume that is only partially cleansed. If we go along the logic of widening the world, then the population of the Scourge to the Kingdom of the Alliance is still probably 10:1, even only in the plaguelands. Considering Caer Darrow was 25,000 people strong, and the plaguelands itself were probably fuuuull of people.

Ignoring the work of AD and Alliance/Horde for the moment... you migrated all those numbers down to Stormwind's realm? Unnoticed? Or by magic maybe? Mass teleport eh?

James Longfield wrote:
@ Ledgic, the logic was to create RP.

Not a valid excuse to go loreraping.

James Longfield wrote:
@ Eira, Acherus does nothing, you can assume and speculate but there is no evidence of Ebon Blade death knights doing anything with anybody except rotting up there

Archerus has an alliance with Argent Crusade. I'm pretty sure they won't be doing "nothing" and be mopping up the last of the Scourge / Deal with the Risen lorewise aswell. Or like the Crusade, they'll start looking into what Sylvannas is doing.

James Longfield wrote:
Finally, Eselan/Valdar.

What makes you think our leadership is disorganized? If we were to take our numbers at good time and temporarily forget all NPC's (Scourge friendly and Alliance friendly), we could easily be able to match the active Light guilds combined, however point taken.

Right. Power struggle. By this you imply there's been a fight. In every fight there are casualties. If infighting happened alot of fodder will have perished, and their retainers, aka powerful necromancers aswell. This'll leave the already weakened Scourge even more weakened.


TL;DR You fail to answer how you obtained said army (and the timeframe is just lol). You fail to answer how you can control such a huge army without being incredible powerful character yourself. (And honestly, -NOONE- was ever so daft to even get anywhere near that). You fail to answer how said Scourge would go from Plaguelands to Elwynn/Duskwood unnoticed. And the entire number thing... just don't bother with it really, even you cant make up your mind whether to ignore it or not.

Besides that, you attack a keep. A defensive position. This isn't Age of Empires. A keep won't fall from a few footmen (Ghouls?) smashing their swords (Claws/Stumps?) on it's walls.

If I could be arsed I'd get on my knees and beg you to drop the Scourge thing and just find something else. Scourge is done. Over. Accept that.

On one hand I'm still positive on someone taking the initiative to work out a larger scale assault, but yes.. I do feel some things should have been approached differently.
In particular, I talked to some members yesterday on that list of people we were to address for events. What I would like to note, is the position we are pushed in.
1) The event was organized with no regard toward the people this affects. We have events too, we have schedules too, we have other plans. Suddenly you place us before a threat we are not permitted to ignore.
2) The event requires, sort, an encampment and battle. It shocks me to see that you claim to hold a piece of land, while your guild isn't even RP'ing out the encampment. We had to ASK people of your order to get down there (implying they had to stop RP'ing in Stormwind) so our immediate attempt to scout the situation would actually have something to report.
3) When we asked for a retaliation, we were asked to put it on hold since it wouldn't be proper to do this without OOC agreement on an event, for the better of your guild/all (whomever this "all" may be). How can you use that argument against us after having so bluntly denied us that approach? So.. in short.. you conquered a piece of land and then you go OOC and deny people to actually respond to it.

I'm gravely disappointed by the lack of respect towards other roleplayers here. Ignoring their ability to participate was one mistake. Denying a chance to interact is another. Us having to ask -your- order to actually find people RP'ing the encampment is really disappointing. And lastly... I was somewhat appalled by the tone with which I had to put up when whispering for some action.
Getting arguments used against me that "RL is more important than RP and -your- guild still has a life outside this game". Sorry.. but I consider that hardly a respectful thing to say to a guy who approaches you in an attempt to get something working. Who the -F- are you?

And please refrain from statements like "We can easily outnumber all active Light guilds combined". It is not a respectful thing to say... And it's also a lie. DoL matched your numbers with ease last night and we are, comparatively, a small guild.

I would like to commend the effort some people put in this at the last minute, but I might just break up camp and let "the stormwind army" handle this one.

I think this is an example of THE LACK OF common sense clashing with "FUN NOW PLZ".

Unfortunately I agree with Gahalla, this all seems pretty unlikely. And Raelen makes a good point as well.

Also, after reading the entire thread I have to agree with what JP said above 100%. Oh and the only two times that Scourge invaded Stormwind and the surrounding areas was during the invasions in the opening of Naxxrammas and Northrend's event.

I am unsure how.. such an army would mass, move, take it and well.. be left without being CRUSHED a few hours later. Simply because its so near to Stormwind, if it was something like the keep in Redridge mountains or Ravenhill in Duskwood it would make more sense.

In response to Geldar, I agree on the positioning regarding for instance Redridge, I mean The Orcs of the Red Blade from what I know are up there. I am not sure if the alliance have had any contact with them so such a place makes for a good base of operations. I attempted (Horde side) to get RP going with AotD in the past, the ruleset on our behalf seemed rather crude and one sided when Ephitos put them to myself. "Only grey weapons. No spells only auto attacks. We can bring reinforcements since the Plaguelands are our captital (Again claiming a piece of land without contesting for it or allowing forces to act against it) Now to find that your Order has shifted down from Plaguelands all the way to Elwynn is well.. Souldestroying to say the least, given that our Order had scouts sent out to monitor your Orders movements in the plaguelands you suddenly pack up shop and haul arse over night?

Playing on my Alliance char in Duskwood I myself was giving Holy Lightbringers Mozamir and Raren a hand in tracking cultists ( To our dismay none of your guild were actually on or you were sat around having a casual chat in Darkshires Tavern.)

Even the Dark Riders came down from Plaguelands after hearing from the scouts that you had moved from the Plaguelands. (For the record the Dark Riders are Horde side and see AotD as dissedents against Archerus and thus "hunt" them.) They made an appearence in Duskwood where they met, with Mozamir and Raren after two Disciples of Light fled from them in fear of being killed. They too offered aid as soldiers against a common enemy. To help clear out the Cultists and in return would be granted an escort out through the Burning Steppes when the task was done. But of course AotD whispers to myself in game resorted to slandering and name calling. Because of a mixup of events where AotD never actually told anyone they were having an event with Sin Belore. Turning up in PvP gear and not expecting a retalliation.

Sounds as if I am ranting apoligies. But I have to agree with the basis of disorganisation. I commend the attempts at creating RP but I think this falls more on the mantle of "Where do we go from here? Standing around this cemetary is a little bit crappy."

Duskwood as mentioned had and still has great potential for RP in regards to cultists. My character was told icly by a member of Darkshire that "It would take days for Stormwind to respond to an attack against us. But don't you worry yourself elf, the Night Watch are capable of handling themselves." going by this you should of just left Elywnn alone more so Westbrook. Strategically speaking you would of been wiped off the face of the earth before even hitting the Westfall Bridge.

A good idea, mmmyes with proper planning and a more suitable location. But I mean no information was given to those that might wish to act against you as to rules regarding the RP itself. It just seems and pardon my french here but a half arsed job.

Just my two cents.

KK it seems points have been made, can we get it sorted now?

Getting it sorted seems to be one of the harder things, taking into account some of the stuff that has been posted in this thread.

People being insulted/taking namecalling and heck knows what else just because they tried to discuss all this is pathetic. Just going to ignore the whole thing personally *shrug*

Well i cant comment on that, I have never seen any abuse from the AotD. Maybe their idea being trashed has put their backs up. All the more reason to talk frankly and politly to each other.

Personally i had fun Pwning Iskoroth last night. Dreth has a couple of biiiig stories atm and having this occur as well is really cool IMO. I urge you all to make this work!

What name-calling?

We've sorted the problem Ledgic, I think re-reading the title might have helped ^^


Swift edit :

None of you, not one, has watched the guild grow in the plaguelands. Not one of you came into contact one of us, hell I doubt not even person /who'd the plaguelands or went there OOCly. You have little to no right to claim what size we are, what organization we are, how we work, how we RP, what we do, and where we do it.


@ Quel Shindu Belore guild master ;

You have blandly stated you came uninvited to an event, but you never stated you asked there was an event. If you have evidence of name-calling, slandering and "harassment" please bring it to the front, ^^
Your contact (from what I have gathered) was griefing an RP event Edit: that had Sin Belore and AotD involved + killing members of the Damned in full PvP gear. Doesn't really count.

Allow me to put this in more obvious terms.
We made a mistake, we are trying to fix. Solving problems is harder than making them.

I'm certainly available for thinking out a resolution, but what options do we have? According to communication with your order yesterday, we can not "change" the situation before monday due OOC reasons. And.. quite frankly.. starting Sunday we have other things to do.
What stuns me the most in this situation is that we got in touch with some AotD members lately and from a personal RP story it seemed like this was becoming an interesting culmination of plots. This is an unfortunate put-down for RP that I deemed far higher in quality and more interesting.