City Laws, Alliance

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:There aren't paladins smiting, though. There are Blazing Shields arresting. For something that the law doesn't forbid.

No because when the Paladins do that, tiresome and silly discussions like this seem to be starting up all the time...

Im sorry Ledgic,Amaryl and Kittrina already locked this down ages ago, everyone else go home.

Burgen, do you ever post anything that couldn't be summed up by "Circlejerking and useless comments"?

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:Burgen, do you ever post anything that couldn't be summed up by "Circlejerking and useless comments"?

No, he doesn't. The conversation is ongoing and can go as far as it likes.

I'm not going to lock anything down unless it ends up taking the slide down shit creek.

99% of this Defiasrp forum is full of circle jerkers so i find your statement completely laughable tbh. Ledgic,Kitt and Amaryl posted some common sense stuff that is the only reason why i support them if they came out with something stupid then i'd be an idiot on purpose. Though at least i can say i understood how the council works unlike SOME people <_<

All you've done so far, Burgen, is repeat "These guys make sense shut up everybody these guys are good listen to them shut up with your opinions these guys are great." without adding anything to the discussion yourself.

Cus their is nothing needed to be added as they got it correct perhaps? Why add upon stuff that is perfectly logical that has already been said in the thread many a time by myself as well?
Their is no reason for anyone else to add anything when it is going in circles? Perhaps you should READ the ENTIRE thread before you post another time?

Now how does one vote on the council Ixirar?

This isn't adding to the discussion though, so let's drop that subject and stick to talking about the laws.

Bakar wrote:This isn't adding to the discussion though, so let's drop that subject and stick to talking about the laws.

Exactly this.

Surely you agreeing with Bakar could be considered circle jerking by Ixirar's logic and not ANYTHING to do with it actually making sense though?

Ooooorrr..... you could take it IC and try to solve the question with RP?

That would be a good way to deal with things, yes.

Simple: Stick to the law.

Warlocks should be allowed in the city and being a warlock isn't illegal but the use of fel magic and summoning of undead/demonic minions is illegal.

Shadow magic should not be illegal but massive use of it can be. The same way a mage would probably be arrested for creating a blizzard in a bar fight.

Vaell, that is what the current law stands at!! (Thanks to Rihani doing it for Wild Tempest)
However if they are going to go up to Lighties and boast about being a Warlock, well they're going to get their arse kicked.

Yeah you need to separate what is a systemic problem from what is just bad RP. If your char starts throwing fel fire about and summons a demon in the middle of the cathedral, you can not be surprised if that leads to tension regardless of law.

Also there is another RP thing that people are all different, in this example all paladins are too. Do something evil in front of Wulf and he will stop you with force, where as Lex would prob try to talk you down. RP is subjective buuuut, when you RP it is about others around you as much as your own char, if you know guard guild 1 is vicious and guard guild 2 is more lenient for example then your char might conciser behaving differently.

Then no pole needed.

That's the lore and the law. People's characters will most likely not like Warlocks - if you're open about it and a lightie attacks your char, who is more trustworthy? The city likes followers of the light. They don't like Warlocks, they're a means to an end.

And exactly as Lex said. A lot of people walk around and act cocky towards Guard guilds or figures of power and then complain when they get beaten/arrested. Just because someone is wearing the Stormwind colours does not mean they're a figure of honour, valour and all things good.

EDIT: Just be smart with your RP. I've got dark casters who act very polite towards anyone who would probably kick their head in.

Depends on their RP really Vaell, there is nothing wrong with playing a Dark crusader char, just expect the shit that comes with it. Other than that I accept your point 100%. Besides, ultimately trouble with guards IS RP!

But yes if the council law says that x is ok then it behoves them imo to RP in a way that supports that law or to withdraw it. So if SWC law says being a lock is fine they should work with guards to make that clear and to see punishment comes to those who persecute unfairly.

Hey-hey everyone, sorry I'm a bit late!

There seems to be a bit of confusion going on, I'll try and clarify it and if need be, it could be clarified in the law as well.

- Shadow magic and likewise is currently RESTRICTED within Stormwind (not out-right forbidden). This means you can be a shadowcaster, a warlock, a shadowpriest - so long as you don't actually USE this magic in front of a guard or somewhat. If you do, punishment might follow depending on the severity and after a quick OOC agreement - it could be a big deal, or something small, depending on what people prefer.

* Use shadow magic in front of friends and family and in secluded places in SW all you want, just make sure a lightie doesn't see it!
* Using shadowmagic outside of SW is not restricted at all!
* A permit CAN be received! This would allow the holder of such documents to legally use these magics within Stormwind (so long as they are not abused, of course)! For people who want to play with shadow-y stuff, but don't want to play evil.
* ICly speaking, recently it was suggested to further legalise shadow magic. The council members (consisting of spokesmen for the most prominent guilds in Stormwind) voted and majority decided it would be a bad idea. For now, the law stays as it always has been.
* OOCly speaking, I can only give my own personal opinion here. I think it's fun to have shadow magic restricted, with the option of legal documents for those who don't want to play evil. This allows for IC conflict and requires actual shay warlocks to try and hide or be sneaky! Whether it is possible according to the lore.. I don't know. If I were in King Varian's place, I'd opt for a similar law - allow shadow-y stuff so long as it benefits the kingdom and harms no-one, otherwise be cautious about it. Either way, the majority of the player base seems to be fine with it - apologies to those that don't, you too have valid arguments!
* Do note that, even if you do have a license, there will still be a character or two that will ICly distrust you. There's some zealous types around, but that just makes it more interesting doesn't it? ^_^

- Scarlet Crusade! Definitely some confusion going on around there, and with right, it could've been described better! Sowwie. :<

In this particular case I can't say too much myself because my knowledge on the subject is very limited, but I would assume similarities exist: the evil guys will be shouted at, whereas the 'good' crusaders can apply for a permit and so long as they act like good citizens, would be tolerated.

CrusaderElly wrote:
* A permit CAN be received! This would allow the holder of such documents to legally use these magics within Stormwind (so long as they are not abused, of course)! For people who want to play with shadow-y stuff, but don't want to play evil.

When Rihani was revealed to be the Demoness Sophyra, Permits were removed ICly at the councils decision. However exceptions were made on those that were in Wild Tempest, since they earned the trust of the council, as they were used in Varian's Army and could show that they could keep these dark users under control. Permits were created because of the war, when we followed the lore of Varian using them in his army. Their is no need for them now or the Warlocks!

Dark magic users can act like good citizens without a permit.

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:

CrusaderElly wrote:
* A permit CAN be received! This would allow the holder of such documents to legally use these magics within Stormwind (so long as they are not abused, of course)! For people who want to play with shadow-y stuff, but don't want to play evil.

When Rihani was revealed to be the Demoness Sophyra, Permits were removed ICly at the councils decision. However exceptions were made on those that were in Wild Tempest, since they earned the trust of the council, as they were used in Varian's Army and could show that they could keep these dark users under control. Permits were created because of the war, when we followed the lore of Varian using them in his army. Their is no need for them now or the Warlocks!

Dark magic users can act like good citizens without a permit.

Can we have them re-implemented for the sole reason that it'd provide a reasonable and convenient way to opt out of the prosecution RP without having to stop RPing with a huge chunk of the Stormwind RP base?

Or just roleplay it all out and not be an idiot with your demon/shards/fel-sword out?

Cathee wrote:
2.10 Use of forbidden magic
Practicing magic within the city walls that is restricted by the Stormwind magi tower including tapping into necromantic, demonic or shadow sources of any kind without approval from the Stormwind magi tower, the Stormwind ministry of magic or the Stormwind army. This also includes artefacts or objects infused with said energies. Exceptions in section 4.4 applies.
Punishment: one is to be presented in front of the ministry of magic and justice where punishment will be determined.


4.4 The Ebon treaty
Death knights affiliated with the Ebon Blade is considered an exception from section 2.10 when it comes to practicing necromancy and shadow magic as per decree of His Royal Majesty King Varian Wrynn. They are also exempt from article 4.5. Restrictions on using necromantic and shadow related abilities still apply while within the city walls unless given clearance.

4.5 Undead and demons
Undead or demons that has not been reanimated or summoned with express permission of the Stormwind Magi tower, the Stormwind army or the Stormwind ministry of magic is considered illegal and is to be turned in to the authorities for disposal if possible. Exceptions as per section 4.4 apply and arrangements made by the Stormwind army or the Stormwind ministry of magic.

Ledgic wrote:The city laws for the kingdom of Stormwind have been updated. Written by CrusaderElly as she's known on the forum.

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:

CrusaderElly wrote:
* A permit CAN be received! This would allow the holder of such documents to legally use these magics within Stormwind (so long as they are not abused, of course)! For people who want to play with shadow-y stuff, but don't want to play evil.

When Rihani was revealed to be the Demoness Sophyra, Permits were removed ICly at the councils decision. However exceptions were made on those that were in Wild Tempest, since they earned the trust of the council, as they were used in Varian's Army and could show that they could keep these dark users under control. Permits were created because of the war, when we followed the lore of Varian using them in his army. Their is no need for them now or the Warlocks!

Dark magic users can act like good citizens without a permit.

And you guys still wonder why these discussions happen.

Lets just agreed that the permit still exist for the sole reason of roleplay, by removing these permits we only make life suck for others, and if shit start happening again we make sure to give them away IC with GHI. But only if it has to get that bad.

Follow the law and stop bothering any more about it. Also EVERYONE in the Regiment and the Blazing shield should know about this, today I was told that if I used shadow magic while fighting against worgens I would be arrested, and that was in Duskshire while fighting for my life.

Except Thorvald the reason why the permits aren't around is due to Roleplay so are you telling us to disregard Roleplay for the sake of people's feelings of OOC entitlement? Because that is what it is people want their warlock or their shadow priest to be accepted because they OOC'ly feel their character is that special that it must be done, disregarding any and all lore that may point to such a thing being frowned upon or putting ones character into the social fringes of society because OOC'ly they feel that they shouldn't be restricted in Roleplay and should be allowed to do whatever they want better or worse.

You call them restrictions i call them boundaries and within GOOD roleplay their is always boundaries making sure you don't get into completely and utterly SILLY concepts in Roleplay. Their isn't anything wrong with the current laws of Stormwind or the Alliance what their is something wrong with is the OOC mindset of the Roleplayer who cannot use their imagination.