Re: [A]The Community of Light - date: December 14th

[erwtenpeller]

I have seen people roleplay lots of different things through "the light" though, including teleportation. What should I make of that? Is that super-lore-breaky or is there some merit in such things happening?

[Amaryl]

I disagree that the Light uses people as a Tool.
otherwise, the light would have long withdrawn its favour on scarlet crusaders who murdered innocents.

It is pretty obvious the Light is simply Blind "energy" (in paranthesis since it could be a sentient being or a divine power how ever you wish to interpret, it) With the Will to Further a Purpose. (Good, yadadayada harmonie, enhancement of the self, fighting the shadow etc )

And as of now, the only requirement to tap in to the light and be granted its blessing, is by proving to yourself that it is your intention to further that purpose. If you think its good, so will the light work. If you think its wrong, then it won't.

[Thelos]

I have seen people roleplay lots of different things through "the light" though, including teleportation. What should I make of that? Is that super-lore-breaky or is there some merit in such things happening?

*Shrugs* To be honest, Dee, I'm not sure. It depends. I for one believe you can pull off about anything if you have the right justification. As a roleplayer I heavily emphasize the religious aspect of what it means to be a wielder of the Light, but I can understand it if some folks aren't really into that and just want to showcase their powers of Light without delving too deep into the philosophy of it. For myself though I put on heavy restrictions.

When Thelos starts shining, it should be a special ocassion, and most importantly, only for the sake of others. This is important. The Light's powers should never used to the betterment of the self, as this is a direct violation of what it stands for and basicly the highest insult. The Light should only be channeled to heal the innocent or smite the wicked, delivering upon them a final rest trough Light's mercy. Given that the Philosophy of the Light heavily emphasizes Altruism, I for one believe that the the Light should only respond to those pure of heart that beseech her to please bestow upon them the might to right a wrong. Humility, altruism, willpower, goodness. These are words that characterize the wielding of the Light. Wielding, mind you, or perhaps even better, channeling.

It is pretty obvious the Light is simply Blind "energy" (in paranthesis since it could be a sentient being or a divine power how ever you wish to interpret, it) With the Will to Further a Purpose. (Good, yadadayada harmonie, enhancement of the self, fighting the shadow etc )

And as of now, the only requirement to tap in to the light and be granted its blessing, is by proving to yourself that it is your intention to further that purpose. If you think its good, so will the light work. If you think its wrong, then it won't.

There seems to me that there is a certain tension in this. If the Light is just a blind energy, how can it have a Will to further a Purpose? If it has a will, then it is capable of judging the will of it's wielders. I'd like to to think it has not withdrawn it's favor from the Scarlet Crusaders because their faith and will is genuine. The Light I suppose is blind in the sense that it can only "see" our will and intention and has no "physical eyes" in the actual world, so it has no way to judge the goodness of one's actions on their consequences. All that matters is whether your faith is strong and your will is good and benevolent. This is the case with the Scarlet Crusaders, so the Light reponds to them.

[Lexgrad]

Do you think that to be a paladin is a path that requires a dedication and lifestyle? A monk like existance?

[Amaryl]

You can further a specific purpose blindly, there's nothing controversial in that.
Just like Lady Justice is supposed to be "blind" as in it doesn't look at the actuality of the situation, it just delivers when it is deemed appropriate by the Faithful.

And you can look at the terms "Purpose" and "will" more metaphorically. instead of literal. Since even the Light follows a set of laws. Just like Osmoses will "move" buffers into an equilibrium.

Ofcourse, It is possible that the destruction waged by the scarlet crusaders and other fringe zealots, is part of the Light's plan for balance, and we are actually tools in the great scheme of things, but that means that the entire philosophy of the Light that people adhere to ICly is based on Foundless believes.

Talking from a completely OOC standpoint naturally.

[Amaryl]

Well Personally, Lexgrad,

There is faith of the common man.

and then their is "Faith" that will grant the ability to actually "Wield" the Light.
which arguably is just three steps of devotion further, but it is not something that once you achieved it once, never goes away, if you do not continue, with enacting that faith. since it does, in severe crisis of faith, where you take the wrong path.

[erwtenpeller]

I would say so. Otherwise, you'd just be a knight. <- comment in regard to Lex.

[Rmuffn]

The Light doesn't let to teleport.

[Melnerag]

I know it is a shameless self-advert, but can be useful in this discussion. Especially the lore-entries-collection:
https://defiasrp.forumotion.net/t4026-guide-the-sacred-duty-a-guide-to-the-holy-light

[Lexgrad]

So it isnt possable to be say... a trader or a farmer and have the time to train as a pala?

[Guest]

Eh It's a Paladin. Not a part time thing.

[Gahalla]

So it isnt possable to be say... a trader or a farmer and have the time to train as a pala?

The thing is, the closest thing to a melee soldier today, in terms of physical practise, is a professional championship athlete. Melee combats demands a lot from the human body. You have to physically practise almost a full work-week (40 hours per week) just to keep in that condition. Let alone recover lost fitness due to injury. And skimping on this is very very lethal if you ever are called to fight.

Add this to devotion to the Light, which also requires significant investment in time. And politics, paperwork and such. And a paladin will probably experience that 24 hours a day just isn't enough time.

And then consider that to be even a remotely skilled craftsman of the mediveal fashion, you have to work 70 hour weeks for 10 years straight just to get your journeyman title... and then keep doing it.

So no, Paladins don't have things on the side. Nor does craftsmen. Or traders.

There's a reason the mediveal society was divided between "those who fight", "Those who pray" and "those who work". It's because all of those are more lifestyles than work. Whichever you belong to will take all your time.

Spare time is a more modern concept than automobiles or electricity really.

[Jeanpierre]

While I entirely agree with your logic Gahalla, I'm not sure if that's ever been considered when Lore was written. I think Lore often just is "lets make an iconic character. Ohh, I know, a Paladin! They're going to be badass!"
We aren't here to adhere the rules of reality, but the rules of fantasy. We add elements of reality because it's part of our common ground and it's an accessible starting point.

Rules, laws, technicalities about Light are systematically inconsistent or simply don't exist to such level of detail that it can eliminate doubt about the "how".

This is a fantasy roleplaying game... Build an iconic character and try to adhere the ideas presented in the game and lore.

[Thelos]

I'll fully suscribe to Jeanpierre's post there. Even if Amaryl and I disagree on some fundamentals in the end though it is how this shows trough our characters that matters and, perhaps ironicly, I think there are more similarities there than differences.

Besides, disagreeing on the nature of the Light IC isn't such an unthinkable thing either. Why else would we have this here Community of Light, or heck, Theology? The Light works in mysterious ways, my friends. It may seem fickle in the way it grants power to some and takes away from others, but that is just the way it is in the lifeworld of the Faithful and how one relates to divinity. With a mix of sublime awe and terror.

I'm not sure where that last part went but, heh. Terror.

[Maelmoor]

The Light is not narrowed down to a single path, it's quite which leaves room for different kind of "followers" of the Light. The foundation is the same but upon it you can build different kind of houses as long as they are kept within the fram of the foundation (the lore).

We did debate a bit about it during the last meeting but it would be a nice topic, Was Tirion a traitor? That is something that divides followers of the Light, Maelmoor think he is (as a keen follower of Uthers teachings) while I know many think he is not. I think that also shows in the lore that there were difference in the approach of the Light and how you would follow it.

[Arathoran]

So it isnt possable to be say... a trader or a farmer and have the time to train as a pala?

The thing is, the closest thing to a melee soldier today, in terms of physical practise, is a professional championship athlete. Melee combats demands a lot from the human body. You have to physically practise almost a full work-week (40 hours per week) just to keep in that condition. Let alone recover lost fitness due to injury. And skimping on this is very very lethal if you ever are called to fight.

Add this to devotion to the Light, which also requires significant investment in time. And politics, paperwork and such. And a paladin will probably experience that 24 hours a day just isn't enough time.

And then consider that to be even a remotely skilled craftsman of the mediveal fashion, you have to work 70 hour weeks for 10 years straight just to get your journeyman title... and then keep doing it.

So no, Paladins don't have things on the side. Nor does craftsmen. Or traders.

There's a reason the mediveal society was divided between "those who fight", "Those who pray" and "those who work". It's because all of those are more lifestyles than work. Whichever you belong to will take all your time.

Spare time is a more modern concept than automobiles or electricity really.

We're working every hour of the day to keep the bad guys at bay.

[Guest]

Bring this back, this is good, bring it back.

[Feeniks]

Oh yes, this would be nice.

[Amaryl]

hmm, I could.

[Thelos]

When this event went out of style, the Community Mass seems to have filled its nice. I suggest you don't revive this without at least entering into dialogue with the organisers of this event.

[Rmuffn]

I believe that's Feeniks? And since she posted that it would be nice..

Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing it come back!
It's been too long since a chapterian was murdered in public and the murderer wasn't trialed!

[Guest]

lol merandil

[Lexgrad]

I liked the bit when he stopped breathing.

[Feeniks]

I believe that's Feeniks? And since she posted that it would be nice..

Yeah, that's me. Community masses have been fun and sometimes there has been lot of depate druing and after it *ahem ahem, Chaps+Lex*. Still mass is a mass. There mainly some one speaks to the crowd, asks them to join in prayers but mainly that's it. One person speaking, while others sit.

Some spiritual depate, changeing opinions, compareing teatchings of different groups and races and inteligent conversation about the Light in general would be nice to have...IF that's possible and we don't get to each others throaths Or is that an excuse to go to our troaths


If this would be brought back, it could perhaps happen once a month? Place would of course be the Cathedral, at first, then moving on.

ps. Totally shameless add: Come to this weeks mass, 8 pm

[Amaryl]

Well, if this comes back, its going on a tour as it usually should

The problem though most interesting topics have been discussed already, and I'm not one for purposely rehashing stuff.

I have to say: my favourite debate was the debate about which voting system the community would use to make decisions.

a 30 minute debate about the pros and cons for unanimous voting or majority votes. Well after that debate we had to decide through a vote.

Yes... but with what system?

Hilariously Meta. xD, in the end we didn't vote nor reached a decision. it was glorious.


That said, Amy is currently still in the possession of the chairladyship, and I reckon I can organise a new meeting. Though if I do, it will be in this Format - http://www.defiasrp.com/t4531-community-of-light-treatise-and-demonstration-wed-feb-29-2000

The alternative is that some-one else takes the mantel organising it, and i'll be happy to let them do it.

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