The Dungeon Master Project.

Plots need to make sense with the Universe and restrictions the Warcraft Lore and Realm applies, since Garrosh ( Lawl I wrote Vargosh ) is going to only allow Tauren and Orcs to live and roam the central parts' It would be hard for Nayan or any troll to roam about without some consequential actions. ( I know this was just an example)

In the end, this is for the Roleplayers, made by the Roleplayers' It has some risks, but that's what change is, change is new and we don't want that. New is risky and I'm comfortable with ze old!

Well I'm not' so my own vote goes to 'testing/trying' this out, and see if it can actually become something that lifts the quality or if it disrupts the community! (._.)

this is for the Roleplayers, made by the Roleplayers

Please don't use silly cheesy lines
That's as true as "Roleplayers didn't want this, but it happened".

The proper sentence would be "this is for some Roleplayers, made by some Roleplayers", even if it's not as "catchy" as the quoted one

@ Gnash, yes, that was the point I was making there. That all-go-flowery-talk is void, there's no such thing as "opting out if you don't like it".

As I said to Shro a few minutes earlier "Unless you have the 100% support of everyone, this can't be done. And it's clear you don't have 100%" and "You can never have common agreement in such a large scale. Ever. If you could, you wouldn't need this project, as people would already be agreeing on their own."

I'm not going to stop you from doing what you want, ofc, but I'm not going to not voice my objection to it, either. If that's what everyone wants, I already said I'll just stop RPing as it doesn't feel right. Or maybe I'll tag along too eventually, I don't know. Doesn't mean I like it or that I'll try to support it, as I consider it wrong.

The way I see it, it will be similar to what happens with the SWC, everyone will be waging war to the DM&T and at the same time expect everything from them, rp will become more of a "closed circle" with obscure "decision centres", people will feel excluded and at the same time revolve around it, and the ones in the middle will spend their ingame time frustrated and feeling attacked by everyone. Hence I described it as a "powerplay". I don't want that, that's not what I want from my RP environment. It's not something I'd wish to be part of, directly or indirectly or through consequences on others who are part of it.

And mind you, if the whole "everyone has a voice in this" had a comfortable ground, then with all these sound objections already the project would've be called off because the voices were heard. Instead, we enter a procedure of politics, to see who will present the best-appealing arguments and who's view will prevail, even before it starts. Same thing will happen with the metaplots. And that's what makes me solidify my stance against it.

I think you misunderstood my point in that case, Nayan. :-)

EDIT: to clarify, I wanted to point out that people imposing their reality on you is a common thing in role-play, if not essential. Woah, that actually fitted in one sentence!

Well, again Nayan, I see where you're going with your view. But it's up to us to try and keep it as transparent as possible. Rather than decisions being made in a closed circle, several people will have access to what's being discussed. Plus, with the growth of the project, so will the DM&T grow accordingly.
Say that for example this is a Gurubashi, Cult of Shadow, Arathor and Dwarven Rifle squad initiative. Then the DM&T will focus on them alone. However, as it grows, so will the team grow, with members from the people involved as well. And even if the members of the new groups do not chose to join actively the DM&T, they will still have access to their doings (Rather, their Representative will.)

@ Ataris: Well, as I said, with the growth of the project so will the DM&T. It's not something static, set in stone. The whole project can be fleshed out further. It's a dynamic thing, which changes and shifts to suit the needs of the people involved in it.

Another thing which can help people in hoping on and off the Train is to make the plots in "episodes" rather than a continuous thing (without overlooking previous episodes, naturally). Basically, rather than make a continuous plot, which will just be updated over and over again. One can estabilish a setting and atmosphere if that makes sense, and then develop several plots, one after another (Each containing it's own series of events) with a small downtime between one another for people to receive feedback once it's over, and generally for both players and DM&T to take a breathing alike.

Finally, precisely because of the voices being heard, don't forget that there are plenty of people supporting this project as well. We need to take into account everyone's oppinions in this, and then act accordingly. Some people want to try, others don't. While those people are free not to participate, obviously, there are others which shouldn't be kept from trying what they find to be a good idea. So rather than trying to play with power here, we're simply trying to make something suitable and functional for as many people as possible.

I will not prolong the argument by repeating I don't see it positively, but I'll add a minor reply towards Gnash to clarify that : I know. That was my point with that post. Shro was claiming that people can "opt out" and I pointed out why it's impossible to really opt out if this thing happens. We're saying the same thing there

Nayan wrote:I will not prolong the argument by repeating I don't see it positively, but I'll add a minor reply towards Gnash to clarify that : I know. That was my point with that post. Shro was claiming that people can "opt out" and I pointed out why it's impossible to really opt out if this thing happens. We're saying the same thing there

Not exactly, as in my original post I point out that you can choose to ignore that reality. So you can easily choose to ignore it without consequence for your character.

Nayan, with what I think Shro ment with "Opt out" was go do their thing without talking to the DM&T. The things happening would still affect the world (happens now aswell, when the Red Blade is aware of the Sin Belore being active against the Night Elves in Ashenvale and further north we most often go defend the southern borders more). Now it would just be one side saying "We're gonna go do this" And the DM&T would write down "this happens" in a more flowing form, after the happenings with the othersides responses.

While I can't say I fully support the send in, send out and the DM&T terms. Having a group of "Chronicle keepers" who instead of Shro's idea of the DM&T group is a group that just writes down all major and minor RP happenings and try to keep the servers lore gathered in one place.
Basicly just a group that keeps the servers story written down.
People keeping in touch with that group would help their job. Or even going so far that the sides participating in the events write things down, trying to get a "Viewers perspective" and the keepers just edit and fit it in.
No presenting of what'll happen next or what is happening now. Just a Chronicle of Defias Brotherhood. Also in this to some degree trying to get former history so it doesn't just start "now" with a blank of what happened before.

I feel something like that is something people could feel with better. It wouldn't feel much like an overhanging council of people, that the DM&T might against all wishes and plans become. While the DM&T -seem's- abit more like a controle structure that tells what happened.
The people in the keeper group would also be from all groups and factions and discuss everything with the people involved so they don't get things wrong.


Just some cents of my own and an idea along the same lines (something keeping check on server lore) without it seeming like some big omnious block.
Having a wellwriten down chronicle would also help new people to see how things stand and what's happened. Something that would help very well, if you for example take someone who RP's someone from Darkshire, and in not knowing the towns history RP's that he/she's lived there until the character became active (say, in four months and the big Event there has ended by then), but RP it as all that time was mostly peaceful after all the monsters and that around was taken care off (those around level 20 quests inplanted in Vanilla).
Which for everyone else from Darkshire/Duskwood, or who roleplay alot is quite a "huh, have you been living in a cave or are you just blind?"
With the serverlore well writen down that same person can just be linked there and see. Or hopefully even seen it before and not make the mistake in the first place.

I think that there's a point that many misunderstood. I'll use an example for this to make it easier.

Group A (consisting of guilds 1,2 and 3 for example) is having a plot going on in area X. Group B (which can be a single guild or many, or even a few individual RPers) decides to get themselves involves in said plot. However, when they do show up there, no one is informed about their role, they have no solid reason to be there, apart from the obvious "Oh! There are people in area X! Let's go there too and have some RP!", they interfere with the already existing plot and its participants, and decide to involve themselves so much, that the entire plot begins to fall apart and eventually dies, due to the inconsistency and unpleasant atmosphere this would create.

The above example has happened several times and has caused RP plots to become huge powergames, which involved great amounts of IC and OOC drama, and which normally conclude in the termination of the plot. This wouldn't happen if there was a team behind said plot, co-ordinating its flow (not its outcome). Group B would only have to ask the team for advice as to how to involve themselves in the plot without causing it to end in a nasty way. What would be given to them then, would be information about the plot itself, so they are aware of what's been happening, guidelines and a role in it, depending on the already existing nature of group B. Thusly, the powergames and the following distress would not happen for either side.

One may ask "Why aren't people doing this already?". Admittedly, it would be the same thing if people just asked before joining. Well, it's pretty simple actually. This isn't happening because people are unable to know of all the existing plots. Sometimes they get involved in them without even noticing it. The DM&T would have knowledge of all existing major plots and that way they would be able to co-ordinate them accordingly.

As for the trolls-being-exiled-from-Orgrimmar example. It's a pretty exaggerated one if you ask me. No one would let something similar to this come to pass, be it with a DM&T team or without. Again, the team would only be there to make sure that the flow of a plot, and its relation to other plots, is harmonic and without any unpleasant clashes between groups or individuals. The way people would chose to RP, the personality of their characters and the outcome of the plots, would depend entirely on the RPers and not on the team.

The way I think of the team is an air traffic control center. Planes are flying around, carrying passengers to their destination, and the traffic control makes sure that these numerous planes don't fly into each other. They don't determine what the passengers are eating or watching on the planes, they don't control the planes' destination. They only makes sure there are no disasters. The only detail that is perhaps worth mentioning, is that this air traffic control center would have the power to make the flights a bit more adventurous, by adding a storm or a UFO sighting

I like the theory of the idea - to bring different guilds and plots together into a larger arc. As has already been pointed out though, there are some issues - some large and some small - which might prevent this "ideal world" situation of a Dungeon Master team providing an arcing storyline for the entire roleplay community.

First and foremost is that no one will ever unanimously agree who should be on such a team. There are many that will have a lot of support, but there will always be a nestled pocket of resistance within any community who don't agree with one thing or another. Excluding them wouldn't be possible because, out of ten roleplay guilds, nine would be fine and one would be a dissenter. Now you can't legitimately excluded 10% of the roleplay population because at most times, we're a minority anyway - and if you start creating different factions then it's just going to make things worse - i.e. one piece of information is taken as fact in one place, and one in another. Meaning anyone caught in between, is going to get very frustrated. The above example regarding trolls in Orgrimmar is a good one and although most plots will probably get almost unanimous agreement, the issues we've seen with the Darkshire event aren't going to stay isolated just because its an "elected" team rather than a guild or two organising it.

The reason I put "elected" in quotes is because I am not convinced on the system of guilds putting forward representatives either. I don't think it will fairly represent all the roleplayers, as less than half (probably a lot less than half) will actually be in one of these guilds and those who chose to remain unguilded, are guilded for other things than roleplay or haven't yet found a "home" will not be fairly represented.

I think the idea would be better directed to starting plots and events, not governing existing guilds roleplay or setting out server-wide "agree or don't be a roleplayer" facts. A group of volunteers - elected or not, and people can opt in - can come together somewhere (like this forum, scarily enough!) to develop over-arcing plots that are not guild specific. They could be far reaching, so could be put to a public vote or discussion to fine-tune. But basically they discuss plots and come up with ideas.

To take the idea of the trolls again. While a group could put out a decree saying "Trolls are now banned from Orgrimmar" in an effort to advance a server storyline and get everyone on the same page... the same people could instead start trying to increase tensions and see how it plays out -without needing to involve Thrall making public announcements that only some roleplayers would know about. Things like trying to increase tensions between 2GE and Red Blade - perhaps by Orcs lending their aid to the Goblins of Booty Bay (or something) to keep peace. And the Trolls think this is encroaching on their ownership of the land. If it plays out as Red Blade and 2GE having a feud, then you'll have a similar effect of Orc/Troll animosity but without needing people to accept unenforceable new facts.

I'm sure it's not your intention to just start writing letters from the King of Stormwind or Thrall making declarations to change the current timeline, anyway. But giving people power to do that may lead there. Look at the big hoo-ha there is over whether people should be allowed to ride undead mounts in public areas. That's something really basic and essentially, everyone has their own opinion and no one is ever going to be able to say "anyone riding a mount like that is going to be punished" because it just ends in "my mount is too cool" drama from death knights in starting gear.

A group working to put out plots that are not specific to guilds, or even factions, would be an excellent idea. It wouldn't need any actual power, just people willing to contribute their ideas and follow it through to create events and plots. The forum is half way there, we just need to stop working in isolated pockets, accept that drama is going to happen in any community and everyone can't be pleased, then start throwing out some event/plot ideas to see what sticks. Endless discussion over the theory of roleplay and over-arcing plot vs individual-roleplay is a cycle anyway - individuals have basic roleplay, a group develops, a plot develops in the group, the plot affects the basic roleplay of individuals, there is OOC discussion and friction, the group fragments, the individuals have basic roleplay again, a new group develops... and so forth.

The community creates an over arcing plot in its own roleplay anyway. Yes it might not go as far as to things like trolls being banned from Orgrimmar (there's that example again!), but it does create a timeline. We are limited in how we can affect the warcraft world. We are essentially governed by ol' man Blizzard as to the big changes. So we should work on creating a more thematic timeline than a "set in stone" one. Little events that combine to make the history of the server. A timeline of major and minor events could be an excellent project - start with the major Blizzard milestones (Dark Portal opens, Horde/Alliance go to Northrend) and flesh it out with guild/community milestones (2GE reclaim Stranglethorn, for example - or a few days ago when Orcs of the Red Blade invaded Stormwind harbour). Each milestone can have links to explanations about what, when, why, etc. Now some will be "accepted" facts (e.g. Orcs of the Red Blade did invade Stormwind harbour) and others can be rumours or hearsay (Arthas is dead?). Each faction can accept or deny whether things happened - but if we have a developing timeline then we have a plot and a place to work from. Google Docs would allow someone to be an editor and for various people to make submissions. People would then have copies should disaster strike and the "official keeper of the timeline" (beaurocracy again) gets struck by lightning.

Wall of text, I know. Hope some made sense. One sentence summary: "Deciding roleplay facts bad, creating events good and creating a detailed DB roleplay history good".

@ Skipper's "I think Shro ment with "Opt out" was go do their thing without talking to the DM&T": that's a fair point, that's ok. Though it would still be "imposed".

@ Mando: yes, I can see the need in that example. I just don't want to end up with any sort of (solid or dynamic) "team" that welcomes someone and shows them to their seat. Because if by now you had char A, char B and a "struggle" (in the good sense) between them, to decide that seat, having a conformed solidified status quo would turn the previous "struggle" into char A vs. char B (with char B having an enormous "special weight" of the "community" behind them), inevitably leading char B into simply deciding what char A is and is not allowed to do. And that's what I don't want.

However. In the collective light of the last few posts, I've seen a potentially different picture, so there's something I'd like to ask:

Would you see this DM&T idea then as an "observer", like the Oracle in the Matrix or the Watchers in Highlander, for example? Some sort of "chronicle keeper" who does not interfere or directly affect the course of events? If so, then I misunderstood how you meant it, and I'd be potentially interested to discuss it further.

Dungeon Masters do not oversee events. They direct them. :3

I think that there's too much speculation going on about how it will be played out. I really don't understand the problem, taking into account the points being made here.

Creating more RP is always good. Trying to centralize it, however, I'm still not very sure about.

Some interesting points have been made, yet the one thing I kept on thinking about the most is: "Why would I need this kind of a complicated system in order to create more RP for myself?". Whenever I wanted to focus my RP in a certain area, be it in my personal RP, with my entire guild or along with a few other guilds, I tend to make it so.

Why would I need a third party for that? Especially now that cross-faction communication is more easily available, all it requires is contacting a few people in order to get something going on one's own accord. I can choose for myself where I want to focus my RP on and what the supposed plot will be, and I can easily choose who I want involved as well.

This seems to have worked out fine in Duskwood as well, which has really been a project I've been keeping a bit of an eye on, even though I'm not even involved in it (and quite consciously decided not to either). Although Imanuel might get a little stressed with trying to run everything on his own, it's certain possible by the looks of things.

What I'm trying to say is, why would I (or anyone else for that matter who can organise things by him- or herself) need such a complicated system that involves having to contact and rely on a third party to get things carried out? I'm not trying to be a hairsplitter or a hypocrite here, but it seems to come pretty close to bureaucracy. And past experience tells me that I like to keep my own plots into my own hands, along with those I would want to organise it with.

Until I've been convinced otherwise, others are very free to give this project a try, but thus far, I don't feel very inclined to rely on others so firmly. As many people as such a team may have, people are always prone to quit at some point, or to get stressed because everything they have to do starts to resemble more work than game - after which people will have to be re-elected over and over again, which leads to the point of concern that others have made, that not all pieces of the community will be represented.

On a side note, nice to know -someone- had caught wind of that attack, Treylen. We held out far too long in there!

It's not all speculation. All you need to do is look at the SW RP, it suffered a lot from stuff like this. The only thing this is attempting to do, from what I can tell, is bring it to a server-wide scale, which I think would split the community up even further and make it an even bigger pain for new RPers and guilds to join the community due to the closed nature of the RP that will come from it.

Now, I will admit that I do not currently play WoW, but from my past 5 years that I actually did, groups like this do not help anything from my experience. I point to the old Stormwind Council and the thing back when the server started which I right now can't remember the name of, damn it.

Anyway, yeah, you could try it. Just don't ignore the reality of what's happened in the past.

Kozgugore Feraleye wrote:Some interesting points have been made, yet the one thing I kept on thinking about the most is: "Why would I need this kind of a complicated system in order to create more RP for myself?"

Koz's post states much of what I'm feeling, as well.

Ataris wrote:Dungeon Masters do not oversee events. They direct them. :3

True, only that in this case the DM&T team will only direct an event when asked to do so, otherwise they will simply do what I already explained :3

Kozgugore Feraleye wrote:
This seems to have worked out fine in Duskwood as well, which has really been a project I've been keeping a bit of an eye on, even though I'm not even involved in it (and quite consciously decided not to either). Although Imanuel might get a little stressed with trying to run everything on his own, it's certain possible by the looks of things.

My example of two groups clashing in each others RP plots, was actually taken from the current Duskwood event. So no, it might appear that it's running absolutely smoothly, but there are issues, which admittedly are being held under control by several people, in order to not let the event die.

People seem to misunderstand the concept somehow. No one said you -need- this in order to get more RP. You might want to join though when your RP plot concerns more than your guild alone, in order to keep it well co-ordinated.

It's the optional part that kills it though. If enough join, it will basically become mandatory if you want to be part of the RP community. That's the scary thing with these elected groups. You give them power indirectly.

I was explained before what this is all about, so I know the meaning of this initiative and all. It's just that I don't -need- help to spread my plots beyond my guild. That's exactly what I was saying. It's easy enough to contact people on both your own side as well as the opposing side. If one would need a third party as a catalyst, it would only cost that person more time and effort. At least for me.

In the Duskwood campaign, people from the -responsible- guilds are able to decide what happens, instead of outsiders who might not even take part in it eventually. As stated before, whether it's run by a team or not, "unwanted guests" will inevitably come anyway.

Mandui wrote:People seem to misunderstand the concept somehow. No one said you -need- this in order to get more RP. You might want to join though when your RP plot concerns more than your guild alone, in order to keep it well co-ordinated.

How is that any different than just keeping communication open with other guilds? Why should there be an elected group to be the third party/go-between instead of dealing with it yourself?

I don't think a middle man needs to be added.

TL, DR

But nobody took the rolls away, making the whole thing

-*Entirely pointless!*-

Ataris wrote:It's the optional part that kills it though. If enough join, it will basically become mandatory if you want to be part of the RP community. That's the scary thing with these elected groups. You give them power indirectly.

This has also been elaborated on. The elected group as you call it, won't be just 3 or 4 people and they will be representing the entire groups of people involved. The power given to them is pretty much like when giving power to someone within your guild to take care of things for you. It's someone you trust and you are sure about their competence. I don't see what's wrong with that. You shouldn't think of this in a small, 2 to 3 people scale. Players will still be able to do what they please in their RP. This will only concern cases where their RP gets involved in something a lot bigger. They can always chose not to get involved though.

Kozgugore Feraleye wrote:I was explained before what this is all about, so I know the meaning of this initiative and all. It's just that I don't -need- help to spread my plots beyond my guild. That's exactly what I was saying. It's easy enough to contact people on both your own side as well as the opposing side. If one would need a third party as a catalyst, it would only cost that person more time and effort. At least for me.

In the Duskwood campaign, people from the -responsible- guilds are able to decide what happens, instead of outsiders who might not even take part in it eventually. As stated before, whether it's run by a team or not, "unwanted guests" will inevitably come anyway.

You are well known for your leadership capabilities, Koz. And that's mainly because you keep your stuff in track in a great manner But not everyone is. Some people could very much use some help in co-ordinating their events. They have the will to create one and keep it in track but they often oversee a lot of things, while being caught up with their guild issues, their private RP, their raiding, PvPing and so on. That's what has happened in the Duskwood campaign as well, it's not an exception.

Felinaa/Dijie/Finnabhair wrote:
How is that any different than just keeping communication open with other guilds? Why should there be an elected group to be the third party/go-between instead of dealing with it yourself?

I don't think a middle man needs to be added.

Read above answer.

I generally find it a good idea anyways. It's really up to the community to decide though. It would bring an improvement to the general communication at the very least.

Mandui wrote:

Ataris wrote:It's the optional part that kills it though. If enough join, it will basically become mandatory if you want to be part of the RP community. That's the scary thing with these elected groups. You give them power indirectly.

This has also been elaborated on. The elected group as you call it, won't be just 3 or 4 people and they will be representing the entire groups of people involved. The power given to them is pretty much like when giving power to someone within your guild to take care of things for you. It's someone you trust and you are sure about their competence. I don't see what's wrong with that. You shouldn't think of this in a small, 2 to 3 people scale. Players will still be able to do what they please in their RP. This will only concern cases where their RP gets involved in something a lot bigger. They can always chose not to get involved though.

This is exactly the size of the previously mentioned groups relative to the amount of guilds involved. Namely, as far as I've understood it, one from each guild accepted into the group. Even if people choose to not participate in this they will still be affected by it and we'd be closing in the RP community even further.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying be careful with what you're doing, think through what consequences this will have on the entire server instead of your friend-guilds.

Mandui wrote:The power given to them is pretty much like when giving power to someone within your guild to take care of things for you.

The fact that the words "given" and "power" are being used implies directly on what kind of authority these people will have. That choice of words does not sit well with me. Someone also used the word "bureaucracy," too.

Mandui wrote:It's someone you trust and you are sure about their competence. I don't see what's wrong with that. You shouldn't think of this in a small, 2 to 3 people scale.

Competence is a matter of opinion. As many have stated, if Person A gets chosen to represent their guild and Person B doesn't get along with them, Person B is pretty much screwed. I could give many examples from the past about certain people who were given power/officer status and should never have been trusted in the first place. We don't -mean- for these things to happen, but they do.

Mandui wrote:Players will still be able to do what they please in their RP. This will only concern cases where their RP gets involved in something a lot bigger. They can always chose not to get involved though.

This contradicts itself. I am against RP being dictated, manipulated, controlled, and in my opinion, this is the purpose of this DM&T. Pardon my bluntness, but I really don't believe a middle man needs to get involved and argue the cases of this or that. I believe in keeping your own hands involved in your own project, not relying on others to do your work for you.

Also, it was pointed out that the DM&T would discuss issues/projects brought to them twice a week or so. What if you randomly decide to start some RP event on the weekend and you don't have time to go through the "proper authorities" to make this work? "You don't go looking for RP, you make it yourself." RP is about improvisation, not careful planning. You go with the punches dealt to you. Sure, some events are organized, but they're not always flawless and the drama that ensues is unfortunate, but nothing is predictable. I don't think those situations will be averted with a DM&T.

Ataris wrote:
This is exactly the size of the previously mentioned groups relative to the amount of guilds involved. Namely, as far as I've understood it, one from each guild accepted into the group. Even if people choose to not participate in this they will still be affected by it and we'd be closing in the RP community even further.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying be careful with what you're doing, think through what consequences this will have on the entire server instead of your friend-guilds.

The smaller the plot, the fewer will be in the group, how's that wrong? o_O And no, if people chose to not participate, they simply don't participate.

The general mentality of "friend-guilds" or "foe-guilds" is something to be left in the IC drawer. The team will have to be objective to what they do. Picking sides OOCly is something which would defeat the entire purpose of the concept and thus unacceptable.

@Felinaa: I think it's already been made clear that the team won't control or dictate anything. This is about co-ordination, not control. I guess Shro could explain it better, since if I were to try, I'd only repeat myself at this point. He'll be back from his nap soon anyway so hold your horses

Mandui wrote:

Ataris wrote:
This is exactly the size of the previously mentioned groups relative to the amount of guilds involved. Namely, as far as I've understood it, one from each guild accepted into the group. Even if people choose to not participate in this they will still be affected by it and we'd be closing in the RP community even further.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying be careful with what you're doing, think through what consequences this will have on the entire server instead of your friend-guilds.

The smaller the plot, the fewer the group, how's that wrong? o_O And no, if people chose to not participate, they simply don't participate.

The general mentality of "friend-guilds" or "foe-guilds" is something to be left in the IC drawer. The team will have to be objective to what they do. Picking sides OOCly is something which would defeat the entire purpose of the concept and thus unacceptable.

And that's exactly the problem, because that's a utopia. People will involve their OOC opinions in their IC goals, even if only on a subconscious level. People will disagree with each other and people will drama.

I think you've misunderstood me on the amount of people thing. The issue is here that just like the old Council and all that, fact remains that only 1% or so of the actual roleplayers will be able to get a say in this thing. This thing that happens to affect the entire server.

I am of strong belief that RP and a server is something that should be carved out by each individual and their efforts, plots included. It should not be a process dictated by elected people. Which is what this will turn into, wether you wish it to be optional or not.