The Dungeon Master Project.

Felinaa/Dijie/Finnabhair wrote:

Mandui wrote:I think the newspapers are very similar to what the team would be like, only more connected to each other. I can't see how that can ever be seen as metagaming

Then perhaps we don't need a DM&T thanks to those...maybe...? Hur?

I would reply...but! I would repeat myself. So, I'll go RP instead ^^

Felinaa/Dijie/Finnabhair wrote:

Winterbloom wrote:

Shrogan wrote:(If the Orcish movement is not to be known, then please say so in the feedback)

No one was supposed to know about the Silvermoon attack on Black Friday either. But those things happen, sadly.

I don't get your point? Sure, things like that will eventually happen. Drama too, probably. The trick is to minimize it.

By the way, those things are gonna happen no matter what.

EDIT: I can keep on quoting!

Felinaa/Dijie/Finnabhair wrote:

Winterbloom wrote:

Shrogan wrote:(If the Orcish movement is not to be known, then please say so in the feedback)

No one was supposed to know about the Silvermoon attack on Black Friday either. But those things happen, sadly.

I have no idea if that Silvermoon attack was the one Seiken put up where the Sin Belore through IC means found out was happening a week prior to the attack itself. And in the end went about foul on all sides. Or is it another attack?

If so a rather bad example.

And Felinaa right now you do seem to not want to get it just to not get it. Yes, it might be abit like the newspapers. But it would be more bound together, more fluid and someone new wouldn't have to check 5-7 different sources for the information. But rather one would be enough, opens up for people who might not know about those. And they generally don't update until some time after.
And as been stated, if some doesn't want it to be in this. They could just not report it, simple as pie. If they later wanted it in the plot (let us say the Red blade and DRS fought it out somewhere), but smoothly wanted the server to know they could send something in afterwards.
Along off:
"The DRS sent a party to get back in touch with the Bael Modan dig site, but an orcish patroll spotted them leaving the marsh. The orcs gathered strengh and ambushed the dwarves driving them back.
OOC: In a closed circle between the DRS and ORB where the former tried to get intouch with the dwarven outpost in the southern barrens they got attacked. After a few rounds at going at it in wPvP the orcs came out on top and DRS failed in their mission and pulled back."

Could work with bigger situations aswell. And you could chose not to send it in at all and let people find out about it through a news paper.

Marogg wrote:And Felinaa right now you do seem to not want to get it just to not get it.

No, I actually do understand it very well. I just feel that all of this attempt of wanting to keep everyone involved in RP plotlines is just an added complication that I personally don't feel is necessary for this server.

You want plot lines reserved for a few people? How's that going to benefit the server and newcomers? It's not about involving everyone in the plot lines, it's about giving guilds the chance to involve people. There's a huge difference.

I'll address this very briefly, just to elaborate what my point is.

Winterbloom wrote:You want plot lines reserved for a few people?

I never said that.

Winterbloom wrote:It's not about involving everyone in the plot lines, it's about giving guilds the chance to involve people. There's a huge difference.

The guilds can do this themselves, without needing to bring their plans to a team of people who meet twice a week in order to document everything. We have realm forums, guilds have their own guild forums, and we even have an Events forum here, as well as the Registry to announce new guilds and such.

I don't think we need to elect a group of people to do all this.

I know you didn't say that. It was a futile attempt of sarcasm.

It really seems like you're against this on principle. It's a suggestion, an offer to guilds, if you like. If the guild think they've got things under control and don't need it, then they can just choose not to participate.

Winterbloom wrote:It really seems like you're against this on principle. It's a suggestion, an offer to guilds, if you like. If the guild think they've got things under control and don't need it, then they can just choose not to participate.

You're right, I am against this idea. I've said why, several times. And I've also stated my opinion of what would happen to those who choose not to participate. The reason why this thread was started was to get feedback, comments and opinions. Obviously, you've stated that mine are lame. That's fine, this is your opinion, I don't agree but I won't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Toodles!

Ladies, would be lovely if you didn't turn this into a personal duel, please You have a diametrically opposed view, and that's perfectly understandable, but having this turn into a 1v1 is bound to escalate without offering much to the actual discussion, so please hold your breath a bit before jumping on each new post.

Shro, something that made me a bit curious is.. what you describe there is far too similar to my second read of the idea being like "Watchers" a few posts above, yet noone has commented on that with a "yes, that's sort of what we meant" (not that I noticed at least). Makes me wonder, in what way would it be different?

It seems like you've doomed the idea before even giving it a chance. Constructive criticism is great. I don't think your opinion is lame (besides the conspiracy-theory about people coordinating your game time).

An opinion is one thing, speculating how things might turn out, and trashing the idea based on that, is odd, in my opinion.

I respect your opinion although I do not agree. Though to me it seems like you're actively searching for reasons not to try it out.

I pray that the gods of the forums will forgive me for the brief derail.

Personally I'd like even more "control" than this idea provides.

What delayed flights does to mankind;

Please keep on topic, Gogol.

I support this.
It seems like a sound plan to me.
Now I will back away and restrain my self from repeating my self time after time.

Nayan wrote:Ladies, would be lovely if you didn't turn this into a personal duel, please You have a diametrically opposed view, and that's perfectly understandable, but having this turn into a 1v1 is bound to escalate without offering much to the actual discussion, so please hold your breath a bit before jumping on each new post.

Shro, something that made me a bit curious is.. what you describe there is far too similar to my second read of the idea being like "Watchers" a few posts above, yet noone has commented on that with a "yes, that's sort of what we meant" (not that I noticed at least). Makes me wonder, in what way would it be different?

Sorry about it lad, I thought I had replied earlier, but apparently, I did not. They are similar to that which you described. But seeing as how they gather up a lot of people, they also ease communication between folks, and make it easier to organise events on a larger scale. But again, that falls back to the players and guilds themselves. The DM&T is just the frame in which everything comes together and is exposed to the people interested in following or directly involved.

Even just a 'watcher' organisation that chronicles the story as it progresses can be a dangerous thing, particularly if the community empowers this group and promotes their story telling to 'canon'. There is always the risk of mistelling that, when backed by authority, can radically alter a story in error.

As an example: player A and player B are involved in an event. Watcher W observes and chronicles. W misunderstands what transpires and records an incorrect version. A and B are unavailable to correct the error (for whatever reason) and the community plays on around the error. A and B return, discover the error but must either abide by it or everyone else must retcon like crazy. This example is a bit extreme, but even simple things like tone of voice on the part of the watcher can have dramatic and long lasting repercussions.

Obviously there are ways to avoid this but they are buerocratic. I'm not disparaging the idea either, but there are always a set of risks attached to these things and they should be considered against the known risks of the current ad-hoc way of rping.

In my opinion, if Shrogan's idea is to chronicle and co-ordinate guilds he can do this, of his own choosing, as a service to the community and without requiring any implied or explicit authority. Similarly, those who wish to coordinate and aid others in their rp can offer their services globally and individually to guilds who can then opt to receive aid without surrendering their own authoritive power over their own rp. There is no need for any authoritive body, the same goal can be achieved through volunteering services and aid to people who request it and by writing 'histories' that are both in character and admittedly bias/non-authoritive.

That indeed might be an interesting addition.

First of all, as Shriyaro said, it requires no "authority" nor should it be given any.

However, I'm slightly sceptical on Shriyaro's concerns above for two reasons:

1. It strikes me as something more general and less detailed. I don't think anyone would honestly spend their whole time writing down detailed encounters of individuals, there's just far too many of them, it'd be overwhelming. As I understand it, it would be on a more general scale. "Cultists are rumoured to have moved to Blasted Lands" instead of "Nayan and Shriyaro had a misunderstanding, which led to Nayan losing an eye to Shriyaro's sword", if it makes some sense.

2. Even something IS mistransferred, it's not binding. Let's assume the "Nayan and Shriyaro had a misunderstanding, which led to Nayan losing an eye to Shriyaro's sword" example would take place (even though, as I said, I don't think it'd be that low scale detailed). Winterbloom meets Nayan, surprised he has both eyes intact:
- I thought you lost your eye recently?
- ..is that what people say these days? *chuckle* I'm fairly sure that wench of a squid would like it to be so, but I must disappoint her. She barely scratched me, before she fled.
/w That was mistransferred in the Chronicles
/w Ah, I see ^^

Those points aside, I completely agree with Shriyaro, that this project should have absolute no authority on anything, apart from the authority a Chronicle would have. Meaning, being the source of cross-referenced information between guilds, to co-ordinate plots.

Example:
Holy Lightbringers wants to make an event in Winterspring on Dec 17th, OotRB and SGE wants to make a festive event in STV on Dec 17th, TDS wants to plot a clash (kidnap SGE leaders) with SGE on Dec 16th. If all said guilds checked with the "DM&T", they'd rearrange their plans to make some more sense, both in an ooc scale and in an ic scale. OOC to not have two major events clash on the same day in different parts of the world, and IC to not have SGE festivally dancing and cheering with their entire council kidnapped the night before.

That'd be an acceptable example, imo, of what use the DM&T could have.

As for the "easier large scale communication" part Shro posted.. aren't we posting in it atm?

Yeah, my example was trivial, but I hope it was still informative of the class of errors which could occur. That you even have to spend time explaining the error effects your rp. Scale that up to misunderstanding between guilds and hopefully my concerns seem more valid. Of course, the same thing happens now, but any pressure to comply with the error or go out of your way to correct is not influenced by some over arching authoritive body.

If everyone used these forums to plan events and the defias wiki to record histories then no dm&t would be needed, the community would have the tools to self regulate and achieve the same goals.

If this DM&T is really just going to be a set of chroniclers, then I have far less problems with it than before. I still agree with Shriyaro, though.
Why would we need this team, if we can all do it individually on the forums? We could still appoint one person per guild, who then just writes down the story of said guild. People on their own would have the responsibility for their own characters.

As long as it's not something that reminds me of Pratchett's Auditors of Reality, I'm more relaxed. We don't have a Death to fight for us, after all.

With all the replies it's a bit hard to wrap my mind around it. As far as I understand it's about synchronizing roleplaying so there's more ic tension and less ooc tension.
Also, I think the idea (if I got it right) is sound, but the weakness are the players that participate.

Well, having read this all I've to say that while I find the idea quite good (as I did originally) yet I've to say I've my share of concerns too, luckily for me, they've been outlined quite well by the likes of Finnabhair and Ataris, so I won't reiterate what is basically the same idea.

As Kristeas said the weakness of this idea is the players that participate in it, there's going to always be OOC considerations, whether they are conscious or subconscious does not matter but they are going to be there, all it just takes for this entire thing to implode, in my mind, is one person yelling foul, alledging that twists by the DM&T were made with the intention to push him/her (Or his/her guild) down, should that happen it really will implode in my mind and backfire tremendously.

So, while the idea is good, I'm going to have to be opposed, really.

Those points aside, I completely agree with Shriyaro, that this project should have absolute no authority on anything, apart from the authority a Chronicle would have. Meaning, being the source of cross-referenced information between guilds, to co-ordinate plots.

What I meant with authority is only on the point that people would inevitably (and already do) place some trust on the DM&T (Or in the current case certain individuals) to gather up things and paste them all together. The DM&T is never detached from the rest of the players for they are players themselves.

Exemplifying: Orcs of the Red Blade, KoArathor, DRS, Cult of Shadow, SGE.

DM&T: Kozgugore, Saihna, Morgeth, Gogol, Dorik, Antistia, Rasonal, Shro'gan, Nitene.

Because then this would make it a lot easier for events to be coordinated and things to be filed up for others which wished to follow the flow of events. Also, lecture is over and I can't type further. I'll be back in a while!

I think this is a good idea, But this has the potential to go horribly wrong.
The Dm's have to be drama proof, no intention for their own character surviving anything, or for their guilds. They should entirely do this from to put it simply ''A non-profit view'' Either each and everyone has to be guildless and friendless. Not have anything to do with friend politics, instantly thinking a new roleplayer is a bad roleplayer, Instantly believing each person who has never done anything before. Since even the good onces can make missteps.
It has to be seen from a position that you are a non-corruptible judge, You will bring law and regulations. Either this could end in a dictator ship. Or a democracy. But as most intelligent people know, a real Democracy changes leaders each once in a while not to give them to much taste of power.

SO do you think you can handle at least responsibility and will you step down when asked to or when you violate your own made rules Or even put in rule in events for personal Gain so to speak.

Also this might have been said before but i can't be bothered reading through all these pages. Sorry for that in advance. ANd if it already has said and falmed down sorry for bringing it up once again!

This dungeon master idea reminds me a lot of the Dark Shire event. Because from my perspective it was actually Imanuel acting as a dungeaon master. The only differance is tho he did not call himself that. He also tried to discuss with everyone their goals and wants into the event and tried to keep everyone updated. The only thing that made it hard that some people didn't talked to him and did their own thing disregarding him.

If you want this to succeed you should look closely of what went wrong in that event.

But I am a bit sceptical anyway. Even though the idea sounds nice in theory and I would love to see it work I think their are some points of concern.

This dungeon master concept is taken if I am not mistaken from pen and paper rp. However there is one very large differance between the two. In pen and paper you are all sitting together around a table in an select group. Everyone sees what the others are doing. And usually everyone stops playing at the same time and start again at the same time.

However in this situation you start with a group of people who can not see each other. And they all leave at different moments. And while they are off-line new people come in and change the scene and logg off as well. When the others come back their knowledge of the events are outdated and they need to be updated. That should be the game master task. But he might not be on-line as well. So he needs to be updated by the ones who were on-line. That means you have to start and make records and send them to the game master. Or you need to discuss it with him. And that...takes a lot of time and energy...and makes it feel more like work then a game. And that will take a lot dedication and patience from the dungeon master and all the other players involved. Because also the othet players will have to take the time to brief the dungeon master and be briefed by him. And also as you said they will have to take up the energy to brief their guildies who will have to take the patience to listen to him. Which makes it I think rather complex.

Lexius wrote:That means you have to start and make records and send them to the game master. Or you need to discuss it with him. And that...takes a lot of time and energy...and makes it feel more like work then a game.

I just quoted that, but Lexius's entire post is an excellent point.

I fully support this idea, and I can tell the whole of you- It will solve the Dramas, And make the Sever more united, much more. Clearly, no party involved will be ignored, and each will get their deserved part. It will solve the Lack of communication, and the power will obviously won't be abused, as no one will have interest to do so.

As their will be no Power abusing, this idea will solve plenty of issues, and improve the communication, Drama-Free and General RP and RP-pvp in the server, in my opinion.

Again, I fully support this idea