The law in Stormwind - Magistrates

So I have been thinking a bit and I have noticed a lack of any actual magistrates (aka judges). Now I do know that we currently have no guards around Stormwind city but since that seems to be on it's way I thought it would be fitting to hit two birds with one stone so to speak and make the whole machinery a bit more interesting.

Magistrates (which I think should be the IC title rather then judge) would be rather organized in Stormwind meaning there would be one or several Grand Magistrates to make sure the others were kept in check. Magistrates would work closely with the guard guild(s) to make sure that most cases that requires magistrate involvement would be handled as quick as possible to avoid having players sit in jail for a good week (I have seen it happen).

Now how about trials? I do not know if there is any specific procedure that is set already but I would put it quite simple:
1. A person is arrested
1. The arrested person is put in jail and charges are wrote down by the guard in change of the arrest
2. A magistrate is brought in and a trial is arranged. The guard presents the charges and the statements of witnesses.
3. The accused person gets a chance to speak or have someone speak on his behalf
4. The magistrate nods seriously and proceeds to scratch his beard/play with her hair while deciding upon a verdict
5. A verdict is given and sentence is executed.

This whole process will of course require a bit of OOC communication but it does not have to be harder. I personally would like to see as much magistrates as possible to be played by nobles since it seems right for the WoW setting in my opinion but that is secondary, I mostly just want to get it working and would offer to be involved in this myself.

If you followed Exa's example of making x amount of magistrates for y amount of guards perhaps this could work hand-in-hand with the guard-guild that is being pretty nicely planned!

Can't we just send em to the Gallows and be done with it?

Well since there's no active guard guild at the moment, you could get in touch with the up and coming one by Exaythe.

I'd say its less of a case of organisating it for the moment so much as finding the proper people who won't A) Use the chance to go on a power trip and B) Won't bugger off once the novelty wears off.

Not everybody is that bad. I'd see Jeanpierre as a perfect magister, although he has loads to do as he is an officer anyway. Maybe there should be an open-air discussion to whom you would like to see ICly and OOCly as an effective magister, the people I have in mind would be;
Jean, Braiden, Corleth, (Cultist / gangster ) Maybe a forlorn cartel member, depends who's up for it. Or it would be interesting if you had other races rather than just human as magisters, would give the view that the court of stormwind has a balanced approach to all it's inhabitants.

Good innitiative and I agree with Gunnell on both points.

I know what you mean Gunnell, it is always a matter of finding the right people however it is hardly wrong to bring it up for discussion

As for magistrates of other races as Ephitos said I would not agree with it OOC or IC for that matter. The kingdom of Stormwind is a human kingdom after all and not a goat-man/wolf-man/elf/dwarf/gnome colony.

Braiden wrote:I know what you mean Gunnell, it is always a matter of finding the right people however it is hardly wrong to bring it up for discussion

As for magistrates of other races as Ephitos said I would not agree with it OOC or IC for that matter. The kingdom of Stormwind is a human kingdom after all and not a goat-man/wolf-man/elf/dwarf/gnome colony.

I disagree in this regard. I, personally, wouldn't find an issue with a Dwarf magistrate and perhaps even a gnome one - Don't forget that Stormwind has almost the same population of dwarves as Ironforge itself does. Stormwind also houses the largest population of High Elves anywhere on Azeroth but since they're not a playable race lets not get into that.

Night Elf/Draenei/Gilnean Worgen/Death Knight magistrates I do not agree with however.

But if we were to use nobles / high-class citizens it'd make more sense to be Human.

I think it's the elective process that should be decided on, with that will come good & successful magistrates. Unless you create a WoW based interpol, that would allow any race to be a magistrate..

Looking at it from a political perspective, there are two ways it could go race-wise.

Either A) Varian says NO and there are only humans. Or B) Varian mehs and one or two at most Dwarven/Gnomish magistrates get in to keep their racial populations, which as Gunnell said, are high in Stormwind, happy.

An elected group of magistrates is a good idea. In theory. But at the end of the day, people will vote for their friends, and then it becomes a popularity contest and not a democratic one.

Worgen have their own issues. Night Elves wouldn't get involved and would leave the pinkskins to squabble. Draenei would just sit there and advise at most, but while it is possible for one to perhaps get in maybe, I hope for the sake of Stormwind's little credibility it doesn't happen.

All this democracy going on, man I don't like it! I'd say that one or two grand magistrates is appointed by well "merit" (aka influence/status) then they in turn assists in appointing the "normal" magistrates. By whom the magistrates are appointed is another question, the natural choice if we go by Stormwind as it currently is on this server seems the minister of justice but I'm not quite sure.

Aye, but who can you / we decide as a community to entrust this sacred task to? I mean people are bound to disagree!

It is hardly a sacred task, it is more like a huge pile of dung that is waiting to be flung into some unsuspecting persons face... As with all things in WoW-RP it is up to the person that does to follow trough so most of the community gets satisfied with the results. There will always be people who disagrees.

I personally would volunteer for the post as grand magistrate on Braiden to get the whole "nobles in power" thing going. That is provided that my ideas considering titles/offices and shizzle catches on.

I like the idea - it would certainly help the SW justice system go more smoothly. We've had trouble finding interested judges in the past (though there have been an active handful, of course!), partly just because of a lack of organisation, so a system for appointing magistrates (a title which I also prefer, nice one) could aid in that.

Since we will need some active magistrates for the Guard-guild, the idea of some organization is a good one. So get to recruiting/training dem!

What we need:
-Knowledge of the Laws
-Knowledge of court-procedings
-A clue on how to make Finding of Fact based on mostly witness reports, alibis etc
-OOCly Finding appropriate punishments together with the prosecution/defense without it causing drama.
-Activity!

Basicly my first priority would be to get people that are somewhat diplomatic and calm OOC (not to mention somewhat active). In most cases I would say that court proceedings would be hell of a lot simpler then they are today as well... WoW law enforcement seems more like "guilty until proven innocent" to me. It would mostly be cases of getting a milder punishment unless the "criminal" can present overwhelming evidence that he did not in fact preform said crimes.

However as soon as the revised laws pops up I'll get to writing some IC and OOC guidelines and prolly writing them down in a GHI book also so that any potential magistrate may have them close at hand.

Massively enthusiastic about all this. The reason the justice system has been so hard to co-ordinate is a fairly big lack of people to play this role. If more people were interested, I think we could get a nice amount of RP out of this.

Great stuff!

Braiden wrote:Basicly my first priority would be to get people that are somewhat diplomatic and calm OOC (not to mention somewhat active). In most cases I would say that court proceedings would be hell of a lot simpler then they are today as well... WoW law enforcement seems more like "guilty until proven innocent" to me. It would mostly be cases of getting a milder punishment unless the "criminal" can present overwhelming evidence that he did not in fact preform said crimes.

However as soon as the revised laws pops up I'll get to writing some IC and OOC guidelines and prolly writing them down in a GHI book also so that any potential magistrate may have them close at hand.

I did write a guideline book in GHI when Terenor was still a judge. That said it's probably outdated by now.
Also, I agree that the proceedings should be simpler. Not only does it make sense but it would quicken the process and not make trials unnecessarily long and complicated.

Hey,

Quick post 'cos I'm late for training!

I could always kit out one of my low levels alts with suitable attire for such a role. I'm happy to familiarise myself with any new laws written up as such and I -hope- I'm diplomatic OOC. ^^

The judge character would very rarely be played but I'm nearly always available on Geneviéve if he's needed to reside over a case etc.

*shrugs* If you can't find better candidates int he required volumes give me a shout.

he he i indeed agree

Braiden wrote:I personally do believe that there may be additional guard guilds in time and I do not see any point to magistrates and guards to be a part of the same guild ICly or even OOCly, frankly I just see that as an excuse to keep most RP within guilds rather then between individuals and it would make finding magistrates more complex. However the plan is to be working closely with the guard guilds as possible either case, there is always the option of chat channels and all that so no problem really. Again I think it is better to keep this section clear of massive discussion since there is a perfectly good magistrate thread I created for discussion purposes.

It creates cohesion, makes organisation and communication much easier as well as administration over the judges that you currently have. By allowing every random individual Tom, Dick & Harry, it paves way for them to just go inactive from the role without any form of notice which was the issue behind the original judges. Whilst there may be additional Guard guilds I, personally, don't believe in them - People know I'm quite conservative about racial/niche guilds so this will come as no suprise, but throwing multiple guilds out there for the same, specific idea does nobody any favours and mostly stems from "i r want 2 b a guild leadah :DDD".

I'm just saying, the benefits of being in a single unberella law enforcement guild (both magistrates and any future guard guilds) outways the sake of having the personal powah to do what you fancy. That and the afore mentioned benefits to Magistrates being a part of it.

Gunnell wrote:It creates cohesion, makes organisation and communication much easier as well as administration over the judges that you currently have. By allowing every random individual Tom, Dick & Harry, it paves way for them to just go inactive from the role without any form of notice which was the issue behind the original judges. Whilst there may be additional Guard guilds I, personally, don't believe in them - People know I'm quite conservative about racial/niche guilds so this will come as no suprise, but throwing multiple guilds out there for the same, specific idea does nobody any favours and mostly stems from "i r want 2 b a guild leadah :DDD".

There is nothing keeping a person from going inactive just because they are in the same guild as you. Also there are different takes on guard guilds, the one in question for example being partially focused on faith and excluding one guild because you think another guild is better would only serve to spawn huge conflicts OOC but on that point I think we can just agree to disagree. Now back to the magistrates: keeping them on my friend list (and the friend lists of some people in the guard guilds), speaking to them frequently and having a shared channel with the guard guilds should be quite enough, I also believe that magistrates from an IC point of view should not be a part of a guard organization as that may impair judgement.

Terenor wrote:

Braiden wrote:Basicly my first priority would be to get people that are somewhat diplomatic and calm OOC (not to mention somewhat active). In most cases I would say that court proceedings would be hell of a lot simpler then they are today as well... WoW law enforcement seems more like "guilty until proven innocent" to me. It would mostly be cases of getting a milder punishment unless the "criminal" can present overwhelming evidence that he did not in fact preform said crimes.

However as soon as the revised laws pops up I'll get to writing some IC and OOC guidelines and prolly writing them down in a GHI book also so that any potential magistrate may have them close at hand.

I did write a guideline book in GHI when Terenor was still a judge. That said it's probably outdated by now.
Also, I agree that the proceedings should be simpler. Not only does it make sense but it would quicken the process and not make trials unnecessarily long and complicated.

Would have loved to have a look at it if you still got it

Here's the original draft of the court proceedings section of the law reform I proposed a while back, on behalf of an aspiring judge character. Nothing was ever carved in stone from it, so I suppose you're free to use it if it'll be of any help