Bloodwind: OOC and IC Power

I blame the debt crisis on Bloodwind! And Global warming too!

Jahi wrote:

Mandui wrote:I believe that every guild has individuals in it which don't get along with other people. That is still no reason to generalize and draw the entire guild in those incidents. Try settling it with said individuals and if that doesn't seem to work, then contact an officer. What you mention here referring to Bloodwind, can very easily be applied to most of the RPing guilds on the server.

How does this though explain the behaviour that was displayed in this topic today? I mean can you honestly say you've even tried to look at it on Karkath's side? Perhabs even try to listen to him. All I saw was -Red Alert- ''Man the harpoons'' the moment this thread get launched off. I can start adding qoutes to this but as I've said, It's unwise to start pointing fingers.

I actually took the time not only to read what he said, but also reply in a rather extended post, in which I didn't even use any aggressive tone as far as I'm concerned. He however, never replied to that. Not sure how that is seen as inconsiderate? :/

Mikasa wrote:

Jahi wrote:

-They love ganging up on people;
Yes it is I Bairen, who loltrolled roflpwnd at the Wetlands event. Challenging the paladin who was shredding through lower level'd Blazing shielders in Roleplay gear, using his pvp gear. If you want to RP-combat in pvp gear then so be it. But I see no ''fairness'' in challenging a person to an IC duel and then walsing over him in PVP gear. Instantly the alarm bells rang and Mikasa charged in to put me in my place. I only tried to prove a point but it was quickly taken in as offence. Yes I was abit rude and yes I ''baited'' for an reaction but as I said In all fairness; If you wear the <Bloodwind> Tag that doesn't mean you have to put everyone in their place by walsing over them in pvp gear.

A kinda short reply from my side, since I was indeed part of that. :3

If people would not want to fight Mr. Neth, they could have politely declined, couldn't they? Noone forced them to fight him. And his gear, which was mostly PvP gear, was in fact his RP gear at that time. It's not like PvP Gear can't be RP gear.
Then, you, Bairen, showed up. I have nothing against you, but it seemed a bit random you showed up, never the less! When you wanted to challenge Neth, you (as you said yourself) baited (insulted in a way?) him. I, as a part of the Regiment would not stand to see my superior repeatedly getting (sorry for the choice of words) insulted as he politely declined your fight. Yes, I was at fault for my sudden gear switch from Brutal to Wrathful, nothing I can say there.

At that time I for one did not not you wanted to prove a point. Only thought that strafed my mind was that you were annoyed by getting beat my Neth (I see not really why?) and called in the big gun. The offence part I am unsure of.. You mean we took it as an OOC offence, or IC?

Please do reply if I fucked up somewhere or was unclear. That's just my version, I might be wrong, as I am quite alot of the time :<

Ofcourse the man can decline though at the time it quite well proved my point. I was there on my Blazing shields character watching how Mr.Neth was walshing over the fellow shields in his ''RP'' gear through the use of Duels. So I decided to see if he would accept a duel to a man in equal gear, I also was wearing an line set of RP gear that was quite suitable with my tabard. This gear indeed excisted of wrathfull and ICC items but this was merely to proof my point. My real RP gear excist of a favorition between greens and a rare from SFK. I have always been thought that Less = More. Not saying people should dress in a certain mather, heck we all have the freedom to chose how to dress our avatars(characters) but It was rather hilarious to have Mr.Neth suddenly ''grow tired'' from dueling the shields when I showed up as merely seconds before that he was gladly accepting duels.

Like stated above(far above) by karkath, it is okay to lose from time to time..though on some cases..like this, Bloodwind refuses to do so. Don't worry Mandui you are right other guilds do this aswel. Earlyer yesterday I came across a man in the chapter of Anethion who after Sixteen emotes(he was standing at the edge of a mountain) Finaly got knocked off..somehow the power of wind and pushing a man with physical strength only moves a person two milimeters.

Not everyone is perfect and it's okay to show that, Ofcourse we do not hang around with bloodwind 24/7 but that only shows that they reveal a tiny amount of flaws as otherwise, randoms would see to victory aswel from time to time.

One last thing @Mikasa: I indeed quite insulted the man Icly, though I kept it all on an IC bases. I was baiting for my test and I knew very well it would be succesfull..that I was capable of predicting the outcome of my bait only revealed that there perhabs is a need of fixing within the Bloodwind society? Next time..DO CHALLENGE ME WITH YOUR HERETIC SUMMONING POWERS YOUNG MAN!

Mandui wrote:

Jahi wrote:

Mandui wrote:I believe that every guild has individuals in it which don't get along with other people. That is still no reason to generalize and draw the entire guild in those incidents. Try settling it with said individuals and if that doesn't seem to work, then contact an officer. What you mention here referring to Bloodwind, can very easily be applied to most of the RPing guilds on the server.

How does this though explain the behaviour that was displayed in this topic today? I mean can you honestly say you've even tried to look at it on Karkath's side? Perhabs even try to listen to him. All I saw was -Red Alert- ''Man the harpoons'' the moment this thread get launched off. I can start adding qoutes to this but as I've said, It's unwise to start pointing fingers.

I actually took the time not only to read what he said, but also reply in a rather extended post, in which I didn't even use any aggressive tone as far as I'm concerned. He however, never replied to that. Not sure how that is seen as inconsiderate? :/

I do not mean to start a fight or an arguement here. But the way I saw the first two pages of this thread is as an instant man the harpoons defensive counter attack to Karkath who obviously touched a spot that shouldn't had been touched(I'm allowed to explain it like this as Karkath is an old geezer icly :3!)

Jahi wrote:
I do not mean to start a fight or an arguement here. But the way I saw the first two pages of this thread is as an instant man the harpoons defensive counter attack to Karkath who obviously touched a spot that shouldn't had been touched(I'm allowed to explain it like this as Karkath is an old geezer icly :3!)

So...I should have never posted and neither should have the other people or? o_O

I really don't get your point. When creating a thread about a specific topic, one should expect replies, because...I mean, that's the point of creating a topic on a forum, isn't it? And I don't see how any of those replies had this "man the harpoons" character you keep mentioning? (whatever you might mean with that anyway xD)

Mandui wrote:

Jahi wrote:
I do not mean to start a fight or an arguement here. But the way I saw the first two pages of this thread is as an instant man the harpoons defensive counter attack to Karkath who obviously touched a spot that shouldn't had been touched(I'm allowed to explain it like this as Karkath is an old geezer icly :3!)

So...I should have never posted and neither should have the other people or? o_O

I really don't get your point. When creating a thread about a specific topic, one should expect replies, because...I mean, that's the point of creating a topic on a forum, isn't it? And I don't see how any of those replies had this "man the harpoons" character you keep mentioning? (whatever you might mean with that anyway xD)

If you aren't capable of adding up to the conversation and the debate then perhabs you shouldn't had posted indeed. An debate allows both parties to speak out their sides while I can't really say Karkath had the chance. You instantly went into the attack mode and drove him into the corner. Perhabs you could have seen this as an attack towards the <Bloodwind> Tag but you can also have seen this as an way to finaly settle all the tears that have been shed. Plenty of people support bloodwind and plenty of people hate bloodwind. I'm neutral, I enjoy your events but I disagree on some of the things you do.

This thread was meant as an healthy discussion to solve some problems that had been floating around, though so far I barely see anyone who wanted to actually do a debate instead the OP gets tossed to his head that he should have done some research before he says anything. He only said the things he has said from an impression he obtained while RPing with bloodwind. The same impression anyone outside the Bloodwind guild would get.

Like I said, you can tell him your characters have plenty of flaws if you get to know them..But the last time I checked, i'm not a bloodwinder..nore do I interact oftenly with them. So how exactly am I supposed to know your character has a flaw then..would you not get the impression of me being flawless if you only interacted with me once or twice(in combat that is). Ofcourse you can now say ''why give a fudge then?'' well Bloodwind indeed has alot of influence on the RP-ing community, maybe even more then you realise. A Day of roleplaying doesn't come by that the word Bloodwind comesby. Oftenly combined with the ''Bloodwind this, bloodwind that''

Also what I think Karkath meant with ''what does the guild stand at? Is it a pvp guild or a rp guild is it ic or is it ooc'' It's rather unclear what exactly Bloodwind is, I mean I know your a big gang of Pvpers that RP ..but what exactly IS BLOODWIND are you guys a faction? Are you guys an gang of mercenaries? Try to clear this out for the people who perhabs do not come across a bloodwinder, night and day.

Jahi wrote:
If you aren't capable of adding up to the conversation and the debate then perhabs you shouldn't had posted indeed. An debate allows both parties to speak out their sides while I can't really say Karkath had the chance. You instantly went into the attack mode and drove him into the corner. Perhabs you could have seen this as an attack towards the <Bloodwind> Tag but you can also have seen this as an way to finaly settle all the tears that have been shed. Plenty of people support bloodwind and plenty of people hate bloodwind. I'm neutral, I enjoy your events but I disagree on some of the things you do.

You are implying that my answer did not contribute to the conversation then, which I truly fail to understand. I never saw it as an attack, otherwise I wouldn't have taken the time to split his post into quotes and explain my points one by one. What I could have done would be "lol u suck rofl, u know shit yo" or something similar, along with some other insults, instead of trying to explain.

Jahi wrote:
This thread was meant as an healthy discussion to solve some problems that had been floating around, though so far I barely see anyone who wanted to actually do a debate instead the OP gets tossed to his head that he should have done some research before he says anything. He only said the things he has said from an impression he obtained while RPing with bloodwind. The same impression anyone outside the Bloodwind guild would get.

I never told him that he shouldn't have posted, I merely answered to his post in what I think was a rather polite and civilized manner.

Jahi wrote:
Like I said, you can tell him your characters have plenty of flaws if you get to know them..But the last time I checked, i'm not a bloodwinder..nore do I interact oftenly with them. So how exactly am I supposed to know your character has a flaw then..would you not get the impression of me being flawless if you only interacted with me once or twice(in combat that is). Ofcourse you can now say ''why give a fudge then?'' well Bloodwind indeed has alot of influence on the RP-ing community, maybe even more then you realise. A Day of roleplaying doesn't come by that the word Bloodwind comesby. Oftenly combined with the ''Bloodwind this, bloodwind that''

If that is the case then woah...really. The guild exists ICly for only the past month and you already put so much weight on it? I wonder how this can be, considering that the only IC action Bloodwind has taken so far, is creating this campaign :/

Jahi wrote:
Also what I think Karkath meant with ''what does the guild stand at? Is it a pvp guild or a rp guild is it ic or is it ooc'' It's rather unclear what exactly Bloodwind is, I mean I know your a big gang of Pvpers that RP ..but what exactly IS BLOODWIND are you guys a faction? Are you guys an gang of mercenaries? Try to clear this out for the people who perhabs do not come across a bloodwinder, night and day.

The guild leader was planning on posting a thread on this forum exactly about this. Alas, you have to forgive his slowness, caused by the fact that he is currently in the army and doesn't have much free time. The thread will be created however, just be patient

Vectoria wrote:I blame the debt crisis on Bloodwind! And Global warming too!

I just noticed this and it cracked me up xD

Mandui wrote:If that is the case then woah...really. The guild exists ICly for only the past month and you already put so much weight on it? I wonder how this can be, considering that the only IC action Bloodwind has taken so far, is creating this campaign :/

If this is the case why do you people continuesly say ''Get to know the characters then, you'll then see that we have flaws!'' I mean..I can't really say we get the chance to chitterchatter..I mean I play a crazed and evil warlock I don't see myself going up to Mandui going ''So tell me Mandui, you don't happen to have any weaknesses do you you? oh and are you going to eat that?:3*looks down at the cheesepoofs* ''

Also good to hear that theres a topic incoming about what Bloodwind stands for..because gosh damn I'm really dying to find out xD. I always thought you were a main force of Stormwind but then I saw mercenaries and then I saw draenei's and sdfaslfeawfkaewrlaegrklsgrkstrklhtglkbnrtskhnrst <-- That.

Can't be arsed to read ALL sides.

But I do agree with the part that you self-proclaim alittle far too many military overseers and whatnot.

And some of them are quite new names, perhaps not the person.

You claim to be over your OWN regiment. Yet the very first night I noticed how you clearly were ABOVE EVERYONE, and practicly thought your regiment overruled any other.

I don't say I dislike the things you people do. But when it comes to the IC military you've gone a tad far.

Trave/Vargosh/Thandros wrote:Can't be arsed to read ALL sides.

But I do agree with the part that you self-proclaim alittle far too many military overseers and whatnot.

And some of them are quite new names, perhaps not the person.

You claim to be over your OWN regiment. Yet the very first night I noticed how you clearly were ABOVE EVERYONE, and practicly thought your regiment overruled any other.

I don't say I dislike the things you people do. But when it comes to the IC military you've gone a tad far.

If people haven't figured out, I quite support this mans statement. Also I think alot of people would gladly put down a few words about what not..but they either just ''cba'' seeing as it they think Bloodwind once more will refuse to listen(agian p1 and p2 great examples) or that they're afraid that they'll be blacklisted from a very powerfull(influence wise) guild.

This ofcourse has nothing to do with bloodwind and is just the very silly mind that we humans have, something that seems powerfull also gives off an aura of feaaarrzzz

Jahi wrote:
If this is the case why do you people continuesly say ''Get to know the characters then, you'll then see that we have flaws!'' I mean..I can't really say we get the chance to chitterchatter..I mean I play a crazed and evil warlock I don't see myself going up to Mandui going ''So tell me Mandui, you don't happen to have any weaknesses do you you? oh and are you going to eat that?:3*looks down at the cheesepoofs* ''

No, I would expect people to know my character. But I wouldn't expect them to be drawing any conclusions either in that case, or at least I wouldn't because it makes little sense to do so about a character you barely know Also, you can always check the recruitment post on the realm forum and also our webpage, which is mentioned there. There is a ropleplaying section on our website

Trave/Vargosh/Thandros wrote:Can't be arsed to read ALL sides.

But I do agree with the part that you self-proclaim alittle far too many military overseers and whatnot.

And some of them are quite new names, perhaps not the person.

You claim to be over your OWN regiment. Yet the very first night I noticed how you clearly were ABOVE EVERYONE, and practicly thought your regiment overruled any other.

I don't say I dislike the things you people do. But when it comes to the IC military you've gone a tad far.

I still fail to see why or how some people consider us to be acting ABOVE EVERYONE, apart from the obvious and inevitable coordination we have to pull in order to make this event happen, which some people might wrongly interpret as us giving us orders and standing ABOVE EVERYONE. Even if we were the stuckups some people want to make us look like, people can always simply decline in taking part to our events, no? :/

Mandui. You were acting above. I saw that when Valestrion refused to co-operate. And the way that whoever-she-is-woman were just a complete arse.

You can be coordinating without pushing people down and acting as if their superirs. That's called co-operation. Always more than one way to approach a person.

I'm just saying. Not complaining on the events themselves or how you spank each other in your Bloodwind Sauna. But, well. There are equals outside your guild!

(No, Nayan. I'm not insulting anyone.)

As far as I know, Bloodwind creates these events. Of course they are then in a sense, during the events above others. But I highly doubt they would conduct that roleplay on another regiments event plots.

Trave/Vargosh/Thandros wrote:Mandui. You were acting above. I saw that when Valestrion refused to co-operate. And the way that whoever-she-is-woman were just a complete arse.

You can be coordinating without pushing people down and acting as if their superirs. That's called co-operation. Always more than one way to approach a person.

I'm just saying. Not complaining on the events themselves or how you spank each other in your Bloodwind Sauna. But, well. There are equals outside your guild!

(No, Nayan. I'm not insulting anyone.)

You are mixing IC with OOC, yet again. We are fully cooperating with all the participants OOCly. ICly, our characters may clash, throw insults, have duels, slap eachother and whatnot. Just like the shield who kept insulting Netherian or other similar incidents. Keep IC away from OOC.

Mandui wrote:
No, I would expect people to know my character. But I wouldn't expect them to be drawing any conclusions either in that case, or at least I wouldn't because it makes little sense to do so about a character you barely know Also, you can always check the recruitment post on the realm forum and also our webpage, which is mentioned there. There is a ropleplaying section on our website

I've read it three times but it still wont make sense to me..You expect people to just know your character out of the blue..and how am I allowed to use information obtained oocly, into Icly..unlike -perhabs- you I restrain from meta-gaming now that I know Ovelia's rogue fears water elementals you wont see me running towards her with over 9000 water elementals.

So I ask again and this time I would like a proper awnser(instead of the twisted sentices and constant changing of subject) How are we supposed to know that your characters have flaws if we do not know your chars..and the only times we do get to see them, they act posh and perfect.

Jahi wrote:

Mandui wrote:
No, I would expect people to know my character. But I wouldn't expect them to be drawing any conclusions either in that case, or at least I wouldn't because it makes little sense to do so about a character you barely know Also, you can always check the recruitment post on the realm forum and also our webpage, which is mentioned there. There is a ropleplaying section on our website

I've read it three times but it still wont make sense to me..You expect people to just know your character out of the blue..and how am I allowed to use information obtained oocly, into Icly..unlike -perhabs- you I restrain from meta-gaming now that I know Ovelia's rogue fears water elementals you wont see me running towards her with over 9000 water elementals.

So I ask again and this time I would like a proper awnser(instead of the twisted sentices and constant changing of subject) How are we supposed to know that your characters have flaws if we do not know your chars..and the only times we do get to see them, they act posh and perfect.

The guild's website has nothing to do with my character, I thought that's obvious >_> I only mentioned it since people can look it up and get -some- info, until the thread on the RP forum is up.

I never said that you or anyone else are supposed to know my character. I said that since you obviously don't know her, you shouldn't be drawing conclusions about her flaws or her qualities either, assuming she's perfect and whatnot, as is was done earlier in this thread. It's that simple.

Edit: Also, I just noticed that the first 'would' in that sentence of mine should have been 'wouldn't'. My bad, although it should be painfully obvious it's a typo xD

Mandui wrote:

Jahi wrote:

Mandui wrote:
No, I would expect people to know my character. But I wouldn't expect them to be drawing any conclusions either in that case, or at least I wouldn't because it makes little sense to do so about a character you barely know Also, you can always check the recruitment post on the realm forum and also our webpage, which is mentioned there. There is a ropleplaying section on our website

I've read it three times but it still wont make sense to me..You expect people to just know your character out of the blue..and how am I allowed to use information obtained oocly, into Icly..unlike -perhabs- you I restrain from meta-gaming now that I know Ovelia's rogue fears water elementals you wont see me running towards her with over 9000 water elementals.

So I ask again and this time I would like a proper awnser(instead of the twisted sentices and constant changing of subject) How are we supposed to know that your characters have flaws if we do not know your chars..and the only times we do get to see them, they act posh and perfect.

The guild's website has nothing to do with my character, I thought that's obvious >_> I only mentioned it since people can look it up and get -some- info, until the thread on the RP forum is up.

I never said that you or anyone else are supposed to know my character. I said that since you obviously don't know her, you shouldn't be drawing conclusions about her flaws or her qualities either, assuming she's perfect and whatnot, as is was done earlier in this thread. It's that simple.

If you meet a person say 2-5 times and everytime that person behaves/fights in perfect ways..then would you not come to the conclusion that he or she might act far to flawless? Scroll through the pages people say ''If you get to know the characters then you'll see they have flaws'' well we DONT get to know the characters so we have the right to complain that your characters should have atleast a flaw once in a while..if I come across you in a regullar bases where you fight/behave in perfect manners then indeed you might have flaws once in a while but everytime we met it was the same and you should maybe think of losing once in a while.

If you did not know me and Karkath are running an event, we're keeping up with the Evil can never win rule and already have we thought up the event wich will be our demise. We are not perfect..nobody is perfect but the diffrence between say you and me might be that we actually are willing to show it to people we do not know.

We are not perfect..nobody is perfect but the diffrence between say you and me might be that we actually are willing to show it to people we do not know.

Unjust comment there I will now say. If you want me to elaborate I will. But only if you have valid and well thought out discussion to bring. Instead of what i've been reading.

Jayse wrote:We are not perfect..nobody is perfect but the diffrence between say you and me might be that we actually are willing to show it to people we do not know.

Unjust comment there I will now say. If you want me to elaborate I will. But only if you have valid and well thought out discussion to bring. Instead of what i've been reading.

Perhabs abit unjust but if everytime people come across one person and that person is always unbeatable then how can you possibly say he/she opens up with flaws to others?

Jahi wrote:
If you meet a person say 2-5 times and everytime that person behaves/fights in perfect ways..then would you not come to the conclusion that he or she might act far to flawless? Scroll through the pages people say ''If you get to know the characters then you'll see they have flaws'' well we DONT get to know the characters so we have the right to complain that your characters should have atleast a flaw once in a while..if I come across you in a regullar bases where you fight/behave in perfect manners then indeed you might have flaws once in a while but everytime we met it was the same and you should maybe think of losing once in a while.

If you did not know me and Karkath are running an event, we're keeping up with the Evil can never win rule and already have we thought up the event wich will be our demise. We are not perfect..nobody is perfect but the diffrence between say you and me might be that we actually are willing to show it to people we do not know.

....do you really not get it or are you trolling? xD

Let me try one last time. I don't know your character. Like AT ALL. I have no clue who he is, what his personality is like, nothing, zip. I might have heard rumors or bumped into him like once or twice. I still don't know him personally though. For that reason alone, I will NOT go make assumptions about him being perfect.

Also, Mandui got assaulted and almost killed plenty of times. Very few of those assaults were known to me OOCly or ICly beforehand and still I played along, having her get heavily injured. Sorry, but I won't have my character die or import imaginary flaws on her, so that strangers can realize she isn't perfect. I already stated that neither me nor anyone else in the guild is delusional enough to think their characters are perfect, that should be enough

Trave/Vargosh/Thandros wrote:(No, Nayan. I'm not insulting anyone.)

....anyone saw where on earth that came from?

Mandui wrote:

Jahi wrote:
If you meet a person say 2-5 times and everytime that person behaves/fights in perfect ways..then would you not come to the conclusion that he or she might act far to flawless? Scroll through the pages people say ''If you get to know the characters then you'll see they have flaws'' well we DONT get to know the characters so we have the right to complain that your characters should have atleast a flaw once in a while..if I come across you in a regullar bases where you fight/behave in perfect manners then indeed you might have flaws once in a while but everytime we met it was the same and you should maybe think of losing once in a while.

If you did not know me and Karkath are running an event, we're keeping up with the Evil can never win rule and already have we thought up the event wich will be our demise. We are not perfect..nobody is perfect but the diffrence between say you and me might be that we actually are willing to show it to people we do not know.

....do you really not get it or are you trolling? xD

Let me try one last time. I don't know your character. Like AT ALL. I have no clue who he is, what his personality is like, nothing, zip. I might have heard rumors or bumped into him like once or twice. I still don't know him personally though. For that reason alone, I will NOT go make assumptions about him being perfect.

Also, Mandui got assaulted and almost killed plenty of times. Very few of those assaults were known to me OOCly or ICly and still I played along, having her get heavily injured. Sorry, but I won't have my character die or import imaginary flaws on her, so that strangers can realize she isn't perfect. I already stated that neither me nor anyone else in the guild is delusional enough to think their characters are perfect, that should be enough

I've never come across you on Jahi, i've fought you on my Crimson flamer(back when the guild wasn't massacred) and i've seen you fight on my Shields character. All these times you had 0 flaws, I hear the same reports from plenty of other people..I'll end this discussion as it's leading to no where but I do have one last qeustion. Doesn't fighting flawless and playing a rather cliche character get boring over time @_@?

Jahi wrote:
I've never come across you on Jahi, i've fought you on my Crimson flamer(back when the guild wasn't massacred) and i've seen you fight on my Shields character. All these times you had 0 flaws, I hear the same reports from plenty of other people..I'll end this discussion as it's leading to no where but I do have one last qeustion. Doesn't fighting flawless and playing a rather cliche character get boring over time @_@?

Ehr...Mandui 'fights' ICly mostly against the horde. Last time she 'fought' an alliance, was in Darkshire, where the Chapter attacked her. If that one incident is enough to draw that kind of conclusion then eh...by all means >_>

OT: Where was that council suggestion thingy?:3 links plx

Jahi wrote:

Jayse wrote:We are not perfect..nobody is perfect but the diffrence between say you and me might be that we actually are willing to show it to people we do not know.

Unjust comment there I will now say. If you want me to elaborate I will. But only if you have valid and well thought out discussion to bring. Instead of what i've been reading.

Perhabs abit unjust but if everytime people come across one person and that person is always unbeatable then how can you possibly say he/she opens up with flaws to others?

Now I will elaborate as you seem to have completley missed the point in one word. That word being unbeatable.

You see Mandui IC as the chairlady of the stormwind council. How is a person of such high public profile supposed to act is the first thing you should conisider. Well spoken.. Yes.. Presentable.. Yes.. Sober.. Yes.. Not to be seen in a fray.. Yes..

As stated above Mandui takes plenty of hits from characters that feel the need to attack, provoke ect ect.. Jayse takes even more but that's another story entirely. My point being is that in fairness you fail to be fully absorbing everything laid before you. Your comments and replys and constant quotes have shifted from discussion to what appears to represent an opposing political party.

I am however glad you understood what you said was quite unjust so I tip my hat to you in that regard. But I now suggest you take a break to read and re-read everything you've written and look at it objectively.

(also to note there appears to have been a couple of posts as this was being written, should have appeared a little further up)