The Consequences of Power

Dedicated to Doctor Professor Etular, the founder of the Theoretical Role-playing

Power can be anything; it can be martial prowess or a hoard of gold, knowledge of powerful magic or unbreakable faith, political influence or useful networks. But no matter where power comes from, or what form it takes, it always has a price or at the very least has consequences. In my opinion, a player can act his character almost as powerful as he wishes – I wouldn’t mind. What bothers me is not the power of the characters, but the fact that it does not affect them, they seem to get it for free – this lack of consequences ruins a sense of realism for me, and makes me unable to take such characters all too seriously. In this short discussion I will try to illustrate an example of consequences one can face as the result of his power.

A brilliant mage
One of the established clichés on Defias Brotherhood is a teenager who became an Archmage. On itself, it doesn’t seem that outrageous – many prominent scientists in the past and present have achieved brilliance while extremely young. Now let us look at what it would take for a person to become a powerful mage at such a young age; first of all there is talent, undeniably. But talent alone won’t bring you far. I know many people who are talented, but fail because they have no interest in the field they are talented in, or lack diligence. To excel in magic, your talented wizard needs interest in magic, dedication and willpower to sit it all through.

A man who becomes an archmage on his 40th is defiantly good in his subject, experienced, has a degree of dedication – but it is nothing compared to our teenage star. The young lad/lass is intelligent, talented, interested in magic to the point of obsession, dedicated and willing to work long and hard – any other person would not make it through at such a young age. What are the consequences of these qualities?

First of all, imagine living in the world where nearly every person you meet is not as intelligent, bright, dedicated and bluntly put good as you are. Even if you resist the natural temptation to act arrogantly, snobby, suffer no fools and be withdrawn – you still have to cope with a good deal of humanity worshipping you and taking every word you say as Absolute Truth, and another good deal envying you , back talking you and even trying to sabotage you. If you have enough interest in magic to waste your youth studying it 24/7, you probably don’t give a damn about anything else either. This lack of care can be gentle, but it can also be condescending towards all ‘trivial’ matters, only adding further to snobbism. Sure, you can be a 19-year-old archamge, but there are consequences you need to consider, may be not specifically the ones I have listed, but there are consequences which are obvious and should be considered and role-played!

Swordmaster
Another good example is a skilled warrior. We all know that physical training of a soldier is lengthy and demanding, but it is nothing a man who serves in the army ‘professionally’ can’t handle. What distinguishes a true master, is his desire for perfection of his craft. To reach perfection he must be critical, harsh and demanding towards himself. A warrior of legendary skill is probably a man who sought out his limits all the time, and tried to break them. Such lifestyle too has its consequences and affects the way such character would act!

Some other examples
An influential politician got that high because he can conceal his motives; speak in such a way that he cannot be caught on his words. It is likely that in daily speech he sounds evasive, because he is used to be that way . A warlock who commands the powers of hell has probably lost any bit of decency and compassion in his dealings with and subjugations of demons. A paladin who brings Light’s justice must have unbreakable convictions which are not open for discussion.

Conclusion
I think that role-playing powerful characters is acceptable, as long as you consider and act upon the consequences that come with that power and pay the price. Take some time upon character creation to think through these points:
1) What sorts of qualities must my character possess in order to be what he is now, and achieve what he has achieved?
2) Are there any other sides or consequences to these same qualities? (unusual interest often means obsession, wealth may result in oversaturation and lead to unhappiness or perverse practices, for instance)
3) How would others react to a character who displays these qualities, and how will their reaction affect this character?
4) If reaction is strong, what qualities must this character possess to cope with it? (and repeat points 2 and 3!)
5) Are there any things that a character with these qualities will never do?
6) What is the price the character had to pay, and how does it affect him? (For instance, a swordmaster must have sacrificed a lot of time on training, neglecting family and friends)

PS: This is another semi-informative topic meant to trigger some kind of discussion. I've stated my opinion as bluntly as I could, so let us hear yours!

Love the heading xD

I'm just gonna say "in before people saying they hate powerful characters too"... I'm glad you composed the thread to show without doubt that there is no problem in RPing powerful characters (exerienced combatants, noble families, knights, heroes etc.) - we're in the World of Warcraft, damn it, some of you might enjoy being the peasant and the fisherman trading crops for fish all day, but for some of us that simply lacks spice. We wanna play someone special, someone out of the ordinary, perhaps (but not always) a powerful person in some aspect.

Obviously I have had these dilemma situations that Exaythe mentions when I progressed through Shadowlord and Darkmaster in the Sphere - life in the Sphere is a run for power, weaklings fall off and die, only the strongest survive. This is the dogma I lived by and that I taught my acolytes.
That would (conveniently enough, some would say) have to make the leader a powerful character - and that just happened to be me. But how did I play a "proper" powerful character? Mordazan was always meant for the Sphere - cold rational thinking leading his life and his beliefs just as grim and rational (much in line with Nietzhe with his thoughts upon religion, strong and weak people). Combined with an obscene lust for power, the ability to control, he have given me tons of awesome roleplay - but once the power was achieved, what were to be the weakness?
I choose to roleplay Mordazan's wish to control everything around him (both in actions, conversations, everything) on himself by making him try to gain total control in any given situation and being hit by frustration and the like once control is lacking (wether his plans did not play out as intended, he was betrayed, his calculations were off etc.), which gave the character something that could conflict even him. I don't know if that was the best way to do it, and I did other minor things, but I am glad I didn't try the omnipotent role, since that would, in line with Exaythe, ruin the "realism".


I think an important point that is overlooked in the OP is acceptance. Power is never power, power is perception, in roleplay.
If people accept that you have some sort of power-level (which is beond their own characters), then your character can be considered powerful, if not, he simply isn't.

Let me give two examples:

When I, as a Darkmaster of the Sphere, sought out even high ranked (IE somewhat powerful) characters in TDS to punish them because Mordazan's plan didn't work out well, I could emote an attempt to cast them back with shadow magic and as a result they let themselves be thrown across the room, hammer into the wall and glide down with a moan of agony and blood spilling from their lips.

When I, as a level 20 alt rogue, stop someone on the street and tell them to spill their money or I'll cut them in two, which leads to inevitable emote combat, my character usually ends up cut to shreds with my opponent spitting on my bleeding corpse without even a scratch in the armor.


The point is not that high ranking TDS members are better RPers than people walking around Stormwind. The point is that someone who accepts my character's power-level is higher than his will accept that my offensive actions towards him will be that much graver and thus roleplay around my character as a powerful person.

My point is that for roleplaying a powerful character, such as the teen archmage, isn't possible until you achieve a certain amount of respect. People will only respect your character as powerful when you've proven yourself (OOC, IC, doesn't matter in this case, as long as people accept your power).
Thus it is not enough simply to think in the negative sides of being a powerful character and roleplay those out. It is a very vital component in convincing people that roleplaying around your character, in spite of his/her power, is a lot of fun, but alone it isn't enough.


On the subject of different power-levels in roleplay situations it would be possible to write pages and pages again, but to stick on the topic, I think professor Etular would be content

I thoroughly agree with your points, Exa.

One thing I would add is that while one may sensibly begin RPing a noble, or a war veteran (or some such) from the initial day of their character's creation (which especially makes sense if the character has some years behind him/her), it can also be fun to begin with a not-so-powerful character and develop their power through RP.

I've observed - and in fact experienced in my own RP, as some of my characters have grown from wimps to reasonably experienced individuals in their fields - that the growth that happens through RP is often the better developed and more interesting. Yes, someone can do a good job of playing a powerful character from the very beginning if they follow the OP's guidelines and engage common sense, but it can be even more rewarding to begin as a novice warlock (for example) and end up a powerful binder of demons because of IC struggles and events.

I definatly agree that starting your character low and progressing through role-play is the best way to go, however some people for whatever reasons do not want to or cannon RP that out. For instance, if you are a noble - you have to be a noble at start. (I only only one person lifted to nobility through RP)

Or you make a character and try to lead a guild from the very start, which means you need a 'powerful' character to begin with.

Or you simply want a character to fulfil a certain role you think is fun to RP, and can't be bothered with anything else, (like Dragomir and witch-hunting) and begin the character when he is already capable of performing that role well.

Oh I agree with you! I know there are some situations that call for an immediately powerful character, and it can be done with finesse and sense. Just adding that I've observed that characters who are becoming powerful in something that takes skill - for example, any kind of magic or fighting skills - are often made better characters by developing those skills in RP, as it provides opportunities that the player wouldn't always have thought of on their own.

TL;DR - imagine you're selecting traits in Fallout 1.
I like to consider the 'faces of theatre' when building a character - for each positive aspect there should be a negative one to balance it. An imbalance creates an unbelievable character which no one (including yourself) can sympathize with and will probably abandon within a few weeks.


I think it's important that people are encouraged to play villains and heroes (powerful characters tend to fall into either category). Without them roleplay stagnates to sitting around talking to one another upon park benches (which although is an aspect of roleplay, seems to be an extravagant waste of the whole world that Blizzard have given us to play around in). The more fairly structured and played heroes and villains, the more everyone else benefits. As an example:

A tyrannical warlord has, by trial of arms, proved himself the better of two suitors for the hand of a noblewoman in marriage. However, instead of letting his rival go and marrying the maiden, the warlord imprisoned the knight in the gaols of his Stronghold. The younger brother of the knight who served as his squire, upon seeing his brother's imprisonment rides to the nearest city of Stormwind to request aid in freeing his brother. Depending on who takes on the quest, the squire and random-roleplayer could either sneak into the Stronghold and free the knight through stealth or directly challenge the Warlord to a duel. Upon freeing the brother, either the knight or the squire reward the random roleplayer with either a small tribute of coins or a special item.

A peasant arrives at the Stormwind Old Town after harvesting his field of crops for the day. Weary from his work he enters the local tavern where he orders a cheap ale, undergoes a little banter and roams around the Old Town for a while, occasionally stopping to talk to other citizens or admire the city guards.

Two different scenarios, one of which using 'powerful characters' (a Warlord with a Stronghold) while the other being very safe roleplay. Don't take it the wrong way, there is nothing wrong with roleplaying a citizen - it's great to see people moving about town about their business from time to time. But at the end of the day, as a roleplayer you do not achieve that much. In the example with the more extreme characters there is an interesting story which can implement game mechanics (dueling) and gives at least 4 players (maybe more) a fun evening of gametime. At this point you may argue "But if I'm roleplaying a townie, the first scenario doesn't benefit me at all while the second gives me a customer or someone to talk to". Au contraire: upon returning to a town everyone else benefits from the spoils of the quest. The rescued knight could, for example, buy rounds for everyone at the local tavern and boast to the clientele about the feats of his rescuer. Journalists could interview the parties (evil Warlord excluded) for an article in their papers. Local rumours and folklore could be developed and superstition spread to where the Warlord's abode is situated. Maybe even a follow up quest could be started (with the first random roleplayer or even a new one - maybe competing for a reward) such as to win back the hand of the maiden.

To wrap this up, I'm not saying everyone should go and roll Death Knights and Paladins and let the sparks fly. If you love roleplaying as a commoner then more power to you and thank you for keeping up what can sometimes be a very tedious role. But do not criticize people's creativity in writing unique characters, as they keep roleplay alive and enjoyable.

Well I certainly dodged this bullet with my main.

The downside of a "for every pro there is a con" logic is that you permit extremes and, indirectly, control roleplay through it. Imagine you create an unstoppable force, but it is 'slow', then you are still imposing a rule on everyone RP'ing with you.

It's a very difficult subject, but I find that it is harder to play "good" (OOCly) with more power than without it. In the end your power is limited to what you convince the other person what your power is.

For me personally, and this fits very well with priests, is that I like to build up power in terms of influence I can have on a person. Through RP you establish common grounds, rituals, spells methods, tricks. The characters become more acquainted, be it positively or negatively. And as such powers tend to establish themselves automatically and, imo, more creatively than "my powerlevel is over 9000 but I talk like a monkey" (exagerating for the sake of amusement, not to offend anyone )

Jeanpierre wrote:
For me personally, and this fits very well with priests, is that I like to build up power in terms of influence I can have on a person. Through RP you establish common grounds, rituals, spells methods, tricks. The characters become more acquainted, be it positively or negatively. And as such powers tend to establish themselves automatically and, imo, more creatively than "my powerlevel is over 9000 but I talk like a monkey" (exagerating for the sake of amusement, not to offend anyone )

Spot on right there, JP. 4 years ago, when I first arrived in DB, Mandui knew no one and was but a simple priest with what seemed to be a rather prominent tendency towards the shadow. Her becoming known and thus trusted, the various events that affected her personality, her mentality, the way she is looked at by people and also her current status, are all products of the character development that took place ICly through the RP that occurred in those 4 years.

Mandui does wield power in a more than a single way, yet she has barely ever used her shadow abilities to achieve such, including the most well-known of them all, namely meddling with one's mind. It's a procedure that takes some time, is quite enjoyable when experienced with pleasant and capable RPers and makes the power acquired unquestionable, at least to those who have followed said development for a long time.

I do believe that power brings consequences, more than those which meet the eye. However, when done properly and the character is kept balanced between strengths and weaknesses, those consequences become an irreplaceable part of its personality and create a much more realistic frame around the character itself. I don't see weaknesses or consequences as flaws. I see them as valuable assets.

Exaythe wrote: Dedicated to Doctor Professor Etular, the founder of the Theoretical Role-playing

"My, my... Finally! Someone has read and acknowledged my works! Oh, how simply exquisite! This is just the beginning, however; soon, my concept of 'Theoretical Roleplaying' will be recognised world-wide, and I will receive appraisal for my work! One day..." *goes back to reading Sigmund Freud*

This website really needs a "horizontal line" BB tag...

I absolutely agree with the article - power must have consequences. Take my character, for example. Although still able to function as a fairly normal citizen (Fel Corruption has not caused his mind to deteriorate enough to make him chaotic yet), his sympathy and empathy have gradually began to fade away over my time of having RPed him - leaving him in a state in which his only concern, for better or worse, is to uphold the law of the area he's in.

Although being an Engineer, Demonic Studies have taken up a vast majority of his spare time - as he feels the need to constantly improvise and turn to deeper, darker sources of magic. A con of this is that he isn't the most up-to-date on wide-scale Alliance politics (he's moderately up-to-date on Gnomish politics, rarely participating in Tinker's Court). He sees the Horde, mostly, as a "group of savages" - only showing a mild curiosity for the Blood Elves' decision to join it and the existence of Goblins in the Horde. He knows little to nothing about Night Elves, Draenei or these Worgen, dismissing them as being quite savage either in appearance, the little he's heard of their culture and/or general demeanour. Albeit, he is more than mildly interested at getting to discover their societies, but dismisses his interest as trivial in comparison to his studies etc.

These are just some of the pros and cons Etular Fizzlebomb faces, being the esteemed Gnomish Tinker/Student he is today - and I hope you use both Exaythe's, and perhaps even my own, examples to help improve your own RP styles.

Thank you.

*waits for applause, but hears only a cricket chirping*

Ayep, I agree that straight Power vs Flaw results in somewhat extreme and unbelievable characters. When I say 'consequence' I do not necesserily imply 'flaw'. For instance a master horseback archer walks in a funny way, and when people ponder why, they realize 'ahh! He rides a horse a lot!'. Consequences can be subtle or obvious, but always hint at backstory or personality behind a character.

Let me provide an extreme example of not realizing the consequences. A powerful paladin who can summon wings of light, ressurect the dead and shoot bolts of light from his fingertips....is undisciplined, easy to anger and arbitrary in his violence. Makes one wonder how this guy was allowed to stay in the paladin-order, and how on azeroth he ever mastered the Light.

Exaythe wrote:Ayep, I agree that straight Power vs Flaw results in somewhat extreme and unbelievable characters. When I say 'consequence' I do not necesserily imply 'flaw'. For instance a master horseback archer walks in a funny way, and when people ponder why, they realize 'ahh! He rides a horse a lot!'. Consequences can be subtle or obvious, but always hint at backstory or personality behind a character.

Let me provide an extreme example of not realizing the consequences. A powerful paladin who can summon wings of light, ressurect the dead and shoot bolts of light from his fingertips....is undisciplined, easy to anger and arbitrary in his violence. Makes one wonder how this guy was allowed to stay in the paladin-order, and how on azeroth he ever mastered the Light.

Exactly. Those sort of 'hints' should be given and then questioned, but the last one can only be done by those around the character. I have often left hints in several occassions, sometimes seeing people reacting to them and sometimes, to my disappointment, they just jump into conclusions instead. I mean, why on earth would someone not question how a character survives a bullet shot that scatches the heart, especially when the character uses a vial filled with a liquid of inidentified consistency? I was brought to that situation without being warned before hand, and even so, I emoted those hints, which should have had rather strong consequences, yet only a single person reacted to them, whereas the rest simply assumed I godemoted Mandui's survival.

The whole thing is a typical example of causality. Action and consequnce. However, for it to work, both parties must play their roles. And that doesn't always happen sadly.

Question: Can personality attributes be considered powerful? Are some personalities more powerful than others?

ie.: I RP my character as charismatic, confident, thoughtful or ruthless.

Of course!

But if your character is charismatic and used to leading, will he/she have an easy time following orders of others? And, if situation is tough and others look to him for leadership, but he is as much at loss as they, would he admit ignorance or pretend to know things and lead them without a clue?

Growth in strength and power via RP, throughout the time you spend roleplaying a character is the way I would assume most people would go. It's what I've done, with three of my characters at least. I just think there is far too much opportunity for enjoyment and brilliant RP to miss out on by simply starting as a powerful character.

Mord's point about respect is actually a good one, since even if you try to start out as Superman, if nobody knows who you are, you're just going to get dodged and laughed at. However, even when your character has been around for a long time, and grown in strength vastly since the day you made him/her, there are still people who aren't aware of all of that.

Ledgic for example, was a hot headed idiot when I first created him. The only thing he had to his name was speed, but he spent most of his time bleeding from somewhere, because it was early days for him, and early days for most at that point, and I didn't feel like making myself powerful was really all that sensible. He's powerful now, but it's not like I can expect people that don't know him, to know that.

It's a tough subject, really, because any show of power does tend to lead to people bitching at you for godemoting, powerplay, etc, etc. I think all it really requires is some discussion before any fighting happens, inform the people of the power your character holds, even explain some of where they got it if you need to.

A lack of respect between RP'ers is actually a big downfall for RP itself, whether you know each other or not.

Ledgic/Omanos wrote:A lack of respect between RP'ers is actually a big downfall for RP itself, whether you know each other or not.

True words and I'd like to add something that I keep ranting about. Communication. It's the most important thing when it comes to almost anything in life. So communicate and respect your fellow community members. Don't complain about how you feel you are not treated with respect. Treat others with respect and "be the change you want to see" (Ghandi).
Some people will get on your nerves but that is to be expected; it's a big world. Instead be tolerant, understand that there is a reason for why everyone act the way they do and that you can choose not to interact with said person. Be respectful.

One last thing regarding what Mordazan orginally said about perception equals power. A way to reach this is to act your role. Determine the personality traits that will lend themselves best to your selected role and portray them. It will help you to be taken seriously and get people to perceive your character the way you envisioned him or her.

And I highly recommend bouncing character ideas with fellow players and friends. It always help with another perspective.