Using both shadow and holy

Good day,

I have a question. Is it possible that a character can use both shadow and holy. If I take the lore in account, this doesn't seem possible. But, what if a character has a split personality (being possesed)? There are different persons who had a split personality due possession in the lore. My character has been tainted by a seal that invites a demon from the nether to posses her at the command of the person who gave her the seal.

I've been trying hard to come up with a way to play such a character, and hopefully I've found the solution. I hope you guys can shed some light on this situation.

The situation is as followed:

The person who placed the seal upon me has lured me in a trap so to say. My character is very naive, and thought it was for her protection. (She got manipulated to believe this). Now, just like having a split personality, the moment the demon comes up, Anjelica falls asleep. When the demon returns to its slumber, Anjelica wakes up and only notices the holes in time. She's then been told she's fainted (or whatever story the manipulator sells her). The demon uses shadow magic, and isn't able to heal. Anjelica's uses holy magic, and isn't able to use shadow.

Is this a valid way to play such a character?

Thanks.

-A

Sounds very interesting I don't see why it wouldn't be "valid".

I`ve seen several variations of this concept before, it works. -nod-

As far as I understand it, it is possible indeed. It is only if you are corrupt, that the Light will not aid you. At least that is how I read and understand the lore.

It's all about the state of mind. The kind of person that excels at performing shadow magic might have great difficulties getting in the frame of mind for channeling the Light, while a person embodying the Light might be too troubled by the concept of shadow magic to be able to channel it efficiently. The two types of magic are not inherently exclusive of the other, they just have requirements that are difficult to meet at the same time.

Someone in between could probably be adept at both, without really excelling at either.

Yes, it means that you better choose the Light side, than be a heretic worshipping both!

Baltram/Numerius wrote:Yes, it means that you better choose the Light side, than be a heretic worshipping both!

She's not. That's what I'm trying to explain. Anjelica is the direct opposite of the demon in her. And the demon, vice-versa.

Saevir wrote:It's all about the state of mind. The kind of person that excels at performing shadow magic might have great difficulties getting in the frame of mind for channeling the Light, while a person embodying the Light might be too troubled by the concept of shadow magic to be able to channel it efficiently. The two types of magic are not inherently exclusive of the other, they just have requirements that are difficult to meet at the same time.

Someone in between could probably be adept at both, without really excelling at either.

Pretty much this.
And as seen in Forsaken Priest starter quests, they are still told you learn and follow up with the Holy Light. But mustn't forget the Forgotten Shadow that they so dearly worshipp.
And then there's that holy dk in Naxx. :p

So yarr, what Saevir said, really!

Personally I see nothing wrong with that. But then again I might be a bit biased since Lini has been in a fairly similar situation for quite some time now.

The way I've understood it is that the Light/Shadow is something that used to be described that it needed devotion. You literally had to live according to the faiths in order to access them. It wasn't about learning how to use a locked away power, but "unlocking" it by reaching a harmony with the powers (altruism for light, sheer naked ambition for shadow). Hence why only a few select individuals could use them.

The lines have since been blurred a lot. I keep getting the impression there isn't much of a consensus regarding this among Blizzard's writers.

That said, I don't see why your idea shouldn't work. The only possible concern I could see is that the demon could taint you, and that would leave you unable to connect to the Light at all (which is what happened to the Broken).

As Saevir says, someone could utilise both. Though this could make for interesting RP, as someone strives to balance the too sides, knowing without one there isn't the other, for instance?

grufftoof wrote:As Saevir says, someone could utilise both. Though this could make for interesting RP, as someone strives to balance the too sides, knowing without one there isn't the other, for instance?

It's a lot less cliché than an inner demon as well, admittedly. Being in a constant strugge to balance the two effectively would be interesting.

This is what i'd call IC dual spec

Ledgic/Omanos wrote:

grufftoof wrote:As Saevir says, someone could utilise both. Though this could make for interesting RP, as someone strives to balance the too sides, knowing without one there isn't the other, for instance?

It's a lot less cliché than an inner demon as well, admittedly. Being in a constant strugge to balance the two effectively would be interesting.

True. If Anjelica conquers this situation, I was planning to attempt to control both sides, but she has a long way to go before that'll happen.

Ledgic/Omanos wrote:

grufftoof wrote:As Saevir says, someone could utilise both. Though this could make for interesting RP, as someone strives to balance the too sides, knowing without one there isn't the other, for instance?

It's a lot less cliché than an inner demon as well, admittedly. Being in a constant strugge to balance the two effectively would be interesting.

Isn't that something alike what Mandui does? At least that's how I've understood it. Regardless, much more interesting and original indeed.

That's because I'm clever and stuff.

No idea how Mandui plays - but I do like the balance idea. Who said Druids were the only ones with balance?!

Ledgic/Omanos wrote:

grufftoof wrote:As Saevir says, someone could utilise both. Though this could make for interesting RP, as someone strives to balance the too sides, knowing without one there isn't the other, for instance?

It's a lot less cliché than an inner demon as well, admittedly. Being in a constant strugge to balance the two effectively would be interesting.

Quite. The strife to keep both those balanced can be very interesting for the development of a character as it is, without including anything additional like demons or personality disorders.

However, comprehending the Shadow alone to the extend required in order for the wielder to not fall into corruption, is something that takes decades, if not a lot longer. Comprehending both aspects equally and trying to balance between them is naturally even more demanding. That would most certainly take at least a few centuries to achieve, and even then, it still depends entirely on the wielder to keep said balance or succumb to the Shadow's corruption.

The Shadow is purely egocentric and offensive, as already mentioned, whereas the Light is the opposite. I'd imagine that the few who can wield both of them on their own and without any external influences or abnormal states of being (like the presence of a demon or a personality disorder, as mentioned here by the OP), are not only a few centuries old but they also have an affinity to one of them more than the other, despite the never ending struggle for balance. This may fluctuate and change from time to time, depending on several factors and/or the condition of the wielder's psyche during certain periods of her/his life.

For these reasons, I can't easily imagine a human, or any other race with the life span of only a few decades, being able to achieve this without having some sort of "issue". I think that both the demon and the personality disorder could function as the catalyst in order to wield both of them for at least a while. However, since the wielder is obviously lacking the true knowledge about the Shadow and how to consciously master it, the demon would sooner or later manage to "trick" her and make her fall into corruption.

Divine magic in Azeroth is not something you can read about, study or simply expand through knowledge alone. Mental discipline, faith and reaching a certain state of mind. There is also the choice of channeling said power from other beeings but that is not the case in the current example.

Given the nature of divine oriented magic, time spent offers no guarantee that one will advance and gain a better understanding and control of it. One person might need 5 years, another 30 and another 500. It comes down to personal traits, experiences and choices in the end.

Plus it is worth to mention that a character with an extremely long lifespan will be eager to stick to certain rules, paths or just ideals that could actually hinder any such development. Without counting that such characters are very likely to reject advice merely because of that longelivity. If there is one trait that comes with time and age, that is stubborness.
In the end its not a bad trait but a long lifespan has its side effects when it comes to seeking mastery over arts in general.

Small summary. In my eyes a race with a long lifespan has an equal chance as one with a shorter one to achieve the same result in their "magical journey". Each one has its own hinderances to overcome.

Anyhow...

If I was trying such a concept myself I would avoid trying to use a demon. The character's inner demons and flaws could play out much more interesing.

Good luck with it in any case!

I was more referring to the time it takes to comprehend and be able to use the Shadow, rather than the Light. Some races are inherently closer to it, which would make it even easier for those to understand it. The Shadow however is treacherous, giving the wielder the feeling of power and superiority through destructive means. Resisting that would mean to resist following the path to corruption, which I do imagine being more difficult than simply following the virtues of the Light, not to mention balancing between the Light and the Shadow.

Gilraen wrote:
Anyhow...

If I was trying such a concept myself I would avoid trying to use a demon. The character's inner demons and flaws could play out much more interesing.

This, if you were to go for it. Would be alot more interesting aye. There's alot of different views on the light and shadow but the inherent propperties of both (using common sense) are fairly straightforward. Depending on your angle things get interesting

Good luck in your exploration!

Also..

Mandui wrote:I was more referring to the time it takes to comprehend and be able to use the Shadow, rather than the Light. Some races are inherently closer to it, which would make it even easier for those to understand it. The Shadow however is treacherous, giving the wielder the feeling of power and superiority through destructive means. Resisting that would mean to resist following the path to corruption, which I do imagine being more difficult than simply following the virtues of the Light, not to mention balancing between the Light and the Shadow.

Indeed.. it's very hard..

I was more referring to the time it takes to comprehend and be able to use the Shadow, rather than the Light. Some races are inherently closer to it, which would make it even easier for those to understand it. The Shadow however is treacherous, giving the wielder the feeling of power and superiority through destructive means. Resisting that would mean to resist following the path to corruption, which I do imagine being more difficult than simply following the virtues of the Light, not to mention balancing between the Light and the Shadow.

True enough, but I can't help but consider character traits, flaws and experiences far more important regarding the chance of beeing corrupted (or rather consumed?) by said shadow magic.

I only give time spent on it far lesser gravity because this example has divine oriented magic. If it was for something arcane in nature it would not hold true.

There's no consensus on the topic of shadow and light divine magic, but it has been described that in order to draw upon either source, one has to actively embrace the virtues of that discipline. So, for example, to draw upon the light, you have to be kind, generous, self-less - motivated by the clichedly "right" reasons. Or at least one or some of them.

Similarly to draw upon the shadow (as a divine magic, not as an arcane, illusionary, etc), you need to be a bastard. You have to be selfish, and greedy. You shouldn't care about the suffering of others, and quite possibly enjoy it and want to cause it.

The best justification for using both ICly is some degree of split personality disorder. But I would recommend that before you roleplay having such a condition, you actually do some research into it.


I'm going to be unpopular for saying this - but all the lore evidence indicates you can't use both types of divine magic. Not as one person, at least. You draw upon the divine power based on what you actually have faith in. If you worship the light and live by its tenets, when you draw upon divine magic, you'll draw upon the light. And if you inflict pain and suffering, are greedy, selfish, and worship the shadow, then when you draw upon divine magic, you'll draw upon the shadow. If you're a very neutral-esque character, you'd probably not draw on either.

I think a draenei could justify both purely by merit of the fact that they have been gifted the power of the light by the naaru. Their personality could make them a shadow worshipper while they draw upon the gift that they were born with/gifted in their lives.

Also remember.. there are many aspects to both the light and the shadow.. It's not a case of black and white

*is deliberatly being vague* *apologises*

That's the thing though, it is. They're polar opposites.

They are, but within themselves there are many aspects. Is what I meant by not simply black and white.