The Shadow Realm

The Shadow Realm (aka Realm of Shadows) seems to be something tightly linked to undead as a whole. There seems to be quite a bit going on there and after I've put thought into the Death Gate I became more curious about the actual Shadow Realm. What exactly is that place? There are two quests that involve us going into the Shadow Realm already in the game:

Into The Shadow Realm

-This quest involves a new Death Knight being transported into the shadow realm to find their Deathcharger. At this point we find that there are ways of traveling too and from this realm and things do exist inside this realm. I also believe that the Deathcharger we use is sent too and from this realm and summoned from there when needed. Beyond this, I believe it's possible to use the same method for Fleshcrafted beings made by a Death Knight. They are simply kept in the Shadow Realm and summoned whenever desired.

The Power To Destroy

This I felt was a very interesting quest as we actually encounter the Lich King inside. He gives one of the most memorable dialogues as to the operation and freedom of Death Knights in there:

The Lich King says: Ah, the Horde... meddling, as always. I suppose a welcome is in order. So welcome, insects. Welcome to my world.
The Lich King says: You have crossed into the world of the dead in search of answers. You wish to save your ally and have risked life and limb to be here. Allow me to help.
The Lich King says: The boy believed that he was free, but free will has a price. The demons I kept at bay are now loose upon him and all death knights that attempt to flee...
The Lich King says: Mograine's sacrifice was for nothing. You will let Koltira know, won't you?
The Lich King says: And remember this, mortal: for now I give you the choice. I allow you to pick your allegiance, but in the end, you will be mine - one way or another.

At this point it becomes clear that a Death Knight is somehow tied very closely with this realm. Though we get no further information on this from Blizzard and we must speculate the rest from there. It's clear that there are inhabitants of the Shadow Realm and that Death Knights seem capable of traveling there themselves and the more powerful of Knights can even send others into this realm.

As siegmund pointed out in the Magical Travel Methods thread, we have this quote from the Death Knight starting area:

Lady Alistra says: Let us coldly greet another inhabitant of the shadow realm...
Alistra summons a Cenarion Scout.
Cenarion Scout says: Wha... where am I?
Lady Alistra says: A druid! How curious... I wonder how it got in there.
The scout enters Tree Form as Alistra starts attacking it
Disciples... you will find with time that many healing spells fall victim to the degeneration of our strikes.
Alistra finishes off the druid
Some healers lack the knowledge to counter the diseases that we master.
This lack of knowledge is just one more weakness among many. There is little hope against the power of death itself.

So we find that a Cenarion Scout was dropped into the realm and successfully pulled out, which means that the living can very well survive within this realm.

Though I don't have a direct quote for this, Sylvannas after having been killed spoke of seeing Arthas on the other side. That they were surrounded by darkness. So it's possible that the souls of the undead end up trapped in the Shadow Realm. We see this continued by the Death Knight spell Raise Ally which is used to reunite a comrades soul with their body (whether canonical or game mechanics can be discussed). Once more though, it's possible that the soul travels to the Shadow Realm where a Death Knight has the ability to remove it and restore it back to their body.


From here I have a few points on what I believe the Shadow Realm means for Death Knights. It's all purely speculation:

• A Death Knight's soul is trapped within the Shadow Realm as part of their creation. The necromantic energies loosely tie their soul from that realm back into their bodies.
  
• Many Death Knight senses are routed through the Shadow Realm. Since the Shadow Realm perfectly overlays the realm of the living, the Death Knight is able to see through this proxy. Anything the shadow realm touches becomes apparent to them allowing an incredible sense of vision. The only problem is that colors are somewhat lost in this realm. ((Since stealth also passes another realm it remains that Death Knights are unable to see through this effect.))
  
• Shadowy Tormentors that Arthas mentions may be lost souls trapped in the shadow realm, ones that were fused to undead bodies that were destroyed. These tormentors may be souls of those that have no attachment to a body.
  
• Things like ghouls and the Deathcharger can be stored and summoned from this realm. So if a Death Knight works in fleshcrafting, their project can be sent to the shadow realm and recalled through a summoning process.
  
• The Death Gate works via the Shadow Realm to transport the Knight. The Death Gate can work as an entrance and exit, or allow a Death Knight to pass into the shadow realm till they are prepared to leave. It can also be used to trap enemies (as seen with the Cenarion Scout).

Well, just my two cents. Discuss!

I always like your posts, and this was no exception; good read and I like it all being tied together and nicely laid out. ...I have nothing else useful to add, just thanks for the post!

Thank you! I'm glad that I can contribute and I'm very glad I came here even though I'm not technically on Defias Brotherhood. I wish that Moon Guard could have a forum with thoughtful discussions... but then it'd just devolve into something terrible (like Goldshire).

I thought the shadow realm was nothing but Darkness and if you stayed there to long you would eventually die because of your body constantly decaying, how will you explain the Death gates instant teleportation if its just another version of Azeroth?

If you have explained it sorry to bother you but I em really bad at picking up the facts when the whole text is a fact.

Martha Duskbringer wrote:I thought the shadow realm was nothing but Darkness and if you stayed there to long you would eventually die because of your body constantly decaying, how will you explain the Death gates instant teleportation if its just another version of Azeroth?

If you have explained it sorry to bother you but I em really bad at picking up the facts when the whole text is a fact.

Just based on the time we spend in-game in the Shadow Realm and the fact that there are literally things moving in there, I wouldn't think of it as being a place you'll eventually die going through. It doesn't appear very dark either when you're inside, just... grayish.

As for the instant teleportation, I just figure it uses the Shadow Realm as a conduit to send us from Point A to Point B. Not that it's another Azeroth (like the Emerald Dream) but more that it's like a blanket on top of Azeroth. Then inside the Shadow Realm, things can be manipulated and travel to any location instantly (which is also why your Deathcharger can be summoned out exactly where you are).

No worries, never bothering me 8^P.

Una had an ic theory that the shadowrealm was a natural thing however in of it there was a scourge realm generated from the frozen throne. Souls who end up in the scourge realm would be used as the strings to move the puppet (corpse) on azeroth.

It would also explain why some undead are quite sentiant and others are just apparant shells. The forsaken escaped from the scourge realm as a result of a large trauma to the frozen throne. DKs souls were never in the realm in Unas opinion.

No idea if this holds any water out of unas mind.

I think the dangers of entering the Shadow Realm is not from it rotting you or anything, but those Shadow Fiends living there who will attack.

Interesting read in general. Intriguing to say the least.

As far as I'm concerned, the Shadow Realm is the same thing as the Spirit World. Therefore, the place where the souls of the dead enter. When you use Raise Ally on someone, it explicitly says in the debuff that the 'touch of the Shadow Realm still lingers'. I take that to imply that their soul was in the Shadow Realm--the Spirit World--and dragged back by the death knight. The Shadow Realm itself may be a corrupted offshoot of the true Spirit World (one where undead souls linger, rather than "pure" souls), but it is very obviously linked to it in a close manner.

It is more or less the exact same place you go to when on the shaman vision quest in Howling Fjord. The only thing different between the two is the lack of Shadowy Tormentors--expected, since the quest is designed primarily for living characters rather than death knights. So it is the same realm, but only death knights (and probably other undead) are able to witness the Tormentors.

Spoiler:

More or less, all of the spirit world/shadow realm quests in WotLK take you to the same place. Death knights are able to enter it with necromancy, shamans can access it with their rituals, and the Lich King lords over it. The fact that the shaman quest is included there, and that it specifically refers to it as the spirit realm, heavily indicates that the Spirit World and the Realm of Shadow are one in the same.

Sounds very likely. I'm good with that theory, along with EShadowsong's post.

Una's Theory is the best.

I tend to go with the spirit realm being the realm of the dead, and the shadow realm being the place where the actual creatures of shadows, and -un-death, linger. I'm unsure if there's any actual lore on the topic, though, saying one way or the other?

It is what makes it interesting. It is something we as players can theories on it.

Feral / Blackfall wrote:I tend to go with the spirit realm being the realm of the dead, and the shadow realm being the place where the actual creatures of shadows, and -un-death, linger. I'm unsure if there's any actual lore on the topic, though, saying one way or the other?

There's strong hints that they're one in the same, as I mentioned in my post. But like many things in WoW there are no concrete facts.

Shadow Realm is only referenced by Syl and Arthas before they die, the common theory is that the Shadow Realm is where a soul goes after it's been brought to undeath. Eva Sarkov gives a Spectral Essence allowing you to see the realm of the dead, there the spirits reference a Vortex in the sky, not seen in the Shadow Realm but you can see it by looking up when your character is dead.

The spirits of Caer Darrow also imply that it's 'light' where they are, and in no way that tormented. I'm inclined to believe they are not the same place... I can draw up a more detailed argument later when I'm more focused with actual lore links but I'm half in RPing at the moment.

That first sentence was terribly written, by the I mean, Syl mentions it after coming back and Arthas mentions seeing Shadows right before dying. But what I'm trying to say is only undead people have implied they were going there, where as the normal spirits met seem to be in a place with a Vortex in the sky not unlike our characters when they die. I know it's game mechanics wise. But also, Necromancers don't draw from the Shadow Realm. So how do they grab spirits for use? (Sorry to add a second post.)

If they are separate, then the separation is very small. A case of necromancers stealing spirits from the Spirit World, and corrupting and defiling that spirit, leading it to from then on dwell in the Shadow Realm.

If they are separate, the Spirit World is the realm where pure spirits dwell, and the Shadow Realm where undead ones linger (and shadow creatures as well). Necromancy would be able to reach into both... though that reach is likely done "through" the Shadow Realm (like reaching your hand through a window to grab something on the other side. Your side is the material plane, the window is the Shadow Realm, and the Spirit World is the other side), which would explain why Raise Ally leaves a "touch of the Shadow Realm", as the spirit was dragged from the Spirit World and then through the Shadow Realm before finally being reunited with the body in the material plane. That would mean that necromancy uses the Shadow Realm as a "bridge" to cross into the Spirit World. Whereas other spiritwalkers, like shamans, are possibly capable of bypassing the Shadow Realm when they access the Spirit World.

Entirely possible, given that Shadow Magic and Necromancy traces back to the Dreadlords. I'm adamant they are not the same world though, closely linked perhaps? But there's too many glaring differences between them I feel... They might well by the equivalent of Hell and Purgatory for WoW tbh.

idk, I would suspect that there were shadow fiends and necromancers before the legion came.

Necromancy was invented by Dreadlords and they're one of the oldest species in existence. Universally. They're Titan level old.

Edit: Amending that a little due to the MASSIVE TRAINWRECK that is TBC Lore, which really fucks up all coherence to Shadow Magic that might've existed.

(The main problem being that originally Nathrezim were the first real demons along with Eredar and they corrupted Sargeras and a bunch of other stuff. Since they changed it so that Eredar were themselves corrupted by the dark titan, who became corrupted because fuck you.)

I don't know how much Shadow lore changed with it so it's entirely possible they didn't invent it. But dating back they're the first race ever seen doing it.

Nathrezim are just the first recorded necromancers. That doesn't mean they invented it, and there is no lore source that says such (to my understanding, War of the Ancients only shows that the Nathrezim were the first to be seen using it in WarCraft's history). It is possible to learn necromancy without any communication with the Legion, since necromancy itself is not fel magic. Afterall, the draenei practiced necromancy with the Auchenai, and orc shamans communed with their ancestral spirits (a form of necromancy) prior to their contact with the Legion.

Azarth/Tyzai wrote:I don't know how much Shadow lore changed with it so it's entirely possible they didn't invent it. But dating back they're the first race ever seen doing it.

Mhm. But given the age of their race in comparison to others, they either invented it or (More likely.) Sargeras or alternatively the Eredar/Draenei. Either way, given how the Lore works, I don't think we can say Necromancy existed before the Dreadlords. Do we even know what causes Shadow Magic? Is ANY lore consistant anywhere? I mean honestly. Original lore wise (Pre-TBC) Nathrezim and Eredar were the things that invented or at least made up the method in which to use it. With the change, it was probably Sargeras or whatever corrupted him. (The lore remains fucked up on that topic. Since it used to be Dreadlords and Eredar. But since Sarg corrupted the Draenei to begin with (Who are also the first race he does it to) that shits out the window.

Azarth/Tyzai wrote:

Azarth/Tyzai wrote:I don't know how much Shadow lore changed with it so it's entirely possible they didn't invent it. But dating back they're the first race ever seen doing it.

Mhm. But given the age of their race in comparison to others, they either invented it or (More likely.) Sargeras or alternatively the Eredar/Draenei. Either way, given how the Lore works, I don't think we can say Necromancy existed before the Dreadlords. Do we even know what causes Shadow Magic? Is ANY lore consistant anywhere? I mean honestly. Original lore wise (Pre-TBC) Nathrezim and Eredar were the things that invented or at least made up the method in which to use it. With the change, it was probably Sargeras or whatever corrupted him. (The lore remains fucked up on that topic. Since it used to be Dreadlords and Eredar. But since Sarg corrupted the Draenei to begin with (Who are also the first race he does it to) that shits out the window.

Shadow is a natural part of the universe. This is directly stated by A'dal.

"Creatures of the void are naturally chaotic. They are a necessary part of the universe, but they must be kept in check by the Light." - A'dal, World of WarCraft

The Dreadlords were not a "creator race". They did not create shadow magic. You could say they "created" necromancy, but only so far as they designed many of the spells and formula of the school that would come to be called necromancy (in the same way you can say that Einstein created the theory of relativity... those laws existed without him, he just was the first to discover the formula). The actual elemental forces of the universe existed without their influence. Therefore you cannot "trace shadow magic back to the Nathrezim". You can trace many of the spells and arcane formula back to them, because they did invent these things, but they did not "create" shadow magic. Therefore, it's entirely possible to be a necromancer completely independent from the Legion, you can research and discover the same formulas without having to first learn them from a dreadlord. Dreadlords were the first necromancers, and thus some of the most knowledgeable necromancers in the universe, but they were not gods and did not weave shadow magic into the universe; they didn't create the Shadow Realm. They simply learned how to access these things and twist them to their own benefit.

Also, the lore hasn't changed here. The Nathrezim were the first recorded race to discover necromancy, and the TBC changes only affected the Eredar, not the Nathrezim.

Apologies if I misread your post, by the way. I'm going under the assumption that you were claiming that shadow magic exists because of the dreadlords.

The problem is that TBC DID change Nath lore, original Sargeras was corrupted by the Eredar. But Eredar were changed so they were corrupted by him. Meaning he must've got corrupted by the only other race that was that old and also demonic, Nathrezim. However ye. I'm agreeing with you, Shadow Magic doesn't trace back to the Nathrezim, it's probably FAR older. But my original point stands, that they were, as far as we know, the oldest practitioners of Necromancy.

In that case I agree.