The confusion around guards in SW

Saali wrote:

Quikfizzix/Lazarous wrote:Ostekake of <Blazing Shields>

Someone is called that in BS?

Means "Cheesecake"

Sadly, yeah. Had a fun little uh "interaction" with that one though. Teleported my DK to Blasted Lands for my weekly Karazhan farming, teleported into a whole bunch of various Lighties - Disciples mostly, I think - and the Cheesecake did a /lol emote at me... So I oneshotted him and legged it Tanking gear > 4 Retnubs chasing me.

We are talking here of people dressed as guards trying to role-play as guards, not random plate-wearers. I will refuse authority of a 'guard' in pink dress with bunnyears as well

Personally I believe that your mindset, Quikfizzix, is making role-play less accessible. If a thief comes to me and tries to rob me, and he is not from Forlorn Cartel, I will not go ((Sorry, but you are not in Forlorn Cartel I don't trust you to RP a thief properly)), so why would I do the same with guards? If the guy does it well, its fine by me.

Can only agree with Mandui, personally I've had to wait 3 weeks now to bring forth a request, due to people just creating drama during the meetings, causing the meetings to have to end sooner. Which is very sad, cause the fact still remain that the Council is one of the major groups that spawn the most of the server RP, whether people like to admit it or not.

I'd like to suggest that people stop with all the whining on the Council for once, and use that time productively instead and make their own events or actually (GASP), HELP the Council to be what it is meant to be; An organization that create events and RP for all the RPers on the realm.

And as for the actual topic, as far as I've seen, the Protectorate is working pretty well right now. Perhaps it can be the cause of some gathered training sessions between the guilds with guarding rights, but alas as said before, I doubt people would be up to merging into one big guard guild. And to be honest I think that would actually hurt the overall guard-RP more then help it.

People rely on the council far to much which isnt there fault but thats what a proper council is like. New problems always comming in whilst the old ones still lurk about.

But I feel that people feel they need to go to the council for everything because of the IC infulence either to ask for premission for somthing or somthing else.

As regarding the guard subject Im agreeing with Imanuel if you want to RP guard RP one but just do it correctly.

Just my views there and also didnt mean to intend to flame or doubt people in anyway.

Yeah, I guess you're right, Imanuel. My theory would unnecessarily limit the roleplay.

Thank you for all the replies, although it certainly went a little off-topic at some points.

Of course I want RP to increase and flourish, I believe that is what we all want. I have not yet been able to visit a council meeting and thus I do not know how they work and can have no opinion. My only thought is that there should be guards there to throw out anyone who disturbs it, but I am sure you've got that already.

As for the guild idea I had:
I am fine with several guarding guilds and all that, I don't really mind. I also don't really mind if un-guilded people RP city guards as long as they do it well, although I do believe it can cause some kind of confusion. What I mean is that quite serious crimes are being committed around SW by real roleplayers and never get any solutions. I wonder why this is and the only thing that comes to mind is lack of organisation or interest. Why it would be like that I do not know.
My impression is also that the current guard guilds are playing some mix between city guards and world-wide soldiers. That can certainly make some sense IC for them but I would really prefer if there actually was a certain authorithy to turn to when I have been the victim of some sort of crime, and trust them to actually be around at all times, pretty much.

If you see the need for the guild I told you about in my OP I am willing to abandon <Order of the Sparrow>, kill Billiam the beggar and remake him a sturdy Commander. And give an actual investigating Police force a shot.
My ambitions then would be to establish that guild as the Council's police and that their office (thinking City Hall) would be the place to go if you want to report a crime - and that crime would be dealt with in some way, not just noted by a random guard and then forgotten about.

I have a criminal character and I know some guards have a very accurate signalement of him. Yet others of the same guild would whisper him OOC and try to recruit him. That's a bit weird. And frustrating indeed as I would love him to get caught.

Also I mean no offence to anyone at all and do apologise if my posts, that I very often write smiling, can come off as harsh or provocative. That is certainly not my intention. ...most times.

Interesting, Council police. As for the serious crimes commited and the lack of punishments.. well its just that, some people just like to do unrealistic attrocities but when captured and confronted with said charges, they dont wish to get punished equally to the crime they have commited no matter how bad the crime they have done is "But I dont want anything to happen to my charecter. " while theoretically speaking he torched the orphanage and then had a tea party on the pile of corpses.

And if we are to look realistically for crime - punishment he should be torn apart by beeing tied to 4 horses. Thats why people do such things, they know we cannot do anything to their charecter without them agreeing to it, and it serves as a loophole to avoid said justice when it arrives. As well, come on. You commit mass murder/rape/desecration of holy places and you get a slap on the wrist. It just doesnt work like that.

I`d be actually happy to see the old kind of villians back! Those with style that knew whats actually pretty awesome and where the actual boundries were.

PS: Noes, dont kill Billy, he`s too awesome.

I can always remake Billy with another name, as a level 1 character and use only for RP.
Does feel like kind of a waste to level him, be able to wear all that cool gear but never ever have the possibility to RP in it.


Aanyway, I'd do it. And maybe the only way to stop people from doing crimes would be to actually give them hell when they do any. I would like to see public humiliations as a punishment again. Sure, some of the villains would commit crimes just to be the center of attention and get rot tomatoes in their face, but who cares? It'd be RP, it'd be fun and it'd feel realistic.

Menyet-Billiam wrote:And maybe the only way to stop people from doing crimes would be to actually give them hell when they do any.

Stopping crime, eh? I see that this future commander will get heartly dinner invitation from the Cartel or a horse head in his bed. Maybe we should prolong our stay here in Stormwind...

Quikfizzix/Lazarous wrote:

Menyet-Billiam wrote:And maybe the only way to stop people from doing crimes would be to actually give them hell when they do any.

Stopping crime, eh? I see that this future commander will get heartly dinner invitation from the Cartel or a horse head in his bed. Maybe we should prolong our stay here in Stormwind...

Why dont you do that to me? I would gladly hunt you down like animals, drag you out of your holes and homes kicking and screaming into the darkness of the night, never to be seen again.

That or.. send these people on a field trip to your destination:

https://defiasrp.forumotion.net/general-stories-f4/faceless-justice-t716.htm

But really, I'd love that! Arch enemies!

It would have to wait until my force is strong enough to survive getting attacked by you, though. And that'd be logical, as before we're big enough we hardly pose any threat against you anyway.

Menyet-Billiam wrote:But really, I'd love that! Arch enemies!

It would have to wait until my force is strong enough to survive getting attacked by you, though. And that'd be logical, as before we're big enough we hardly pose any threat against you anyway.

On the countrary, you will have Stormwind`s support, including military, SI:7, guards and etc.
Our name is Legion, for we are many. On a unrelated note, Order of the Sparrow was a charity organisation, right? Because if it is, I can offer a part in some future events which you will most certainly like!

Geldar wrote:Why dont you do that to me? I would gladly hunt you down like animals, drag you out of your holes and homes kicking and screaming into the darkness of the night, never to be seen again.

Damn, this man is cwazy! You wouldn't hurt my cute gnome face, would you? Mommy, I want my dorfs back!

Damn, this man is cwazy! You wouldn't hurt my cute gnome face, would you? Mommy, I want my dorfs back!

You simply have no possible idea for the horrors stored in for you. Ripping your face off and then procceding to force feed it back to you is but only the tip of the iceberg of pain, suffering and retribution awaiting. Kek.

*holds arms out, standing in front of the thread* No!! Stop it! Stop de-railing! Bad thread! Back, back! *waves arms at thread while making scary noises*

Kay` back to the subject at hand. Omanos/Ledgic is currently working on providing Guard guide lines with a clear writen agenda towards how a Guard should conduct himself and he/she should do when facing criminals and etc. So just a heads up!

Right, apologies for the rather late response, I've been on a mad dash to get my last university project of the year handed in.

I've been thinking about the situation regarding guard rights and the general dismay that can potentially arise due to people not knowing who or what guild's are "legally" able to arrest them.

Please note this idea is in it's infant stages at best, this is more about giving a little clarification if at all possible.

Guilds with rights - This should stay as it is, in my opinion. The guild arrives and requests the correct authority to make arrests within the city. The reason I think this should remain the same is because it creates more roleplay within the council meetings. Not only that, but if the guild arrives with several members participating, the council knows that it isn't a waste of time to issue these rights. In the past I've very rarely seen guilds turned down for these rights at all, either.

It may seem like "controlling RP" but if you're a -guild- composed of many members, I think it makes sense to apply for them.

Individual guarding rights - The system I'd like to apply to this is on a one to one basis between myself and the individual in question. I've spoken to a few people now that have asked about becoming a guard without a guild and I believe it makes sense for them to contact Omanos specifically and arrange those guarding rights. I have no issues with letting single people work alongside guilds because frankly you shouldn't have to join a guild to RP the way you want to.

So, if I can work out a system whereby they literally go through Omanos and receive the rights via that, then I think that will help people there.

Forming under one banner - This isn't possible in terms of tabards, guilds or otherwise. This has to be done by gathering representatives for each guild with rights and as many of the individual guards as possible, perhaps once a week or once a fortnight. That way they work effectively as a team, patrols can be organised properly and the responsibility of guarding the streets, evenly shared.

Reporting to Omanos - Another way for the guilds and individuals to keep in contact with Omanos is to send case reports to him. I'll be sure to respond quickly with instructions and/or a pat on the back.

Publishing guard guilds and individuals - Given a little time I can make a post on the forum with the guilds and names of people with the power of arrest. I've considered doing so on an IC basis, but I believe that needs a little discussion because it could potentially endanger the character.

---

Right, now that I've got some of that jotted down there, I'll make a general response. I do not believe that issuing guarding rights is by any means a way of "controlling RP" but I understand how it might be perceived as such. The only reason I would like to keep the system similar to what it is at present is so that I can personally keep a track of everyone with rights on an IC and OOC level. The IC would help keep the imitation of guards to a minimum, simply by checking the compiled list of guards names.

Well, I hope that block of text has helped somewhat, I'll keep an eye on the thread to answer any questions and such.

Two questions

1) Is Omanos going to reply to feedback, suggestions and replies in the Laws-thread and will the council see if any points made by posters are valid and things should be changed/elaborated/added?
2) Can we please first see the draft of guard-guide-lines posted somewhere on the forums before it goes onto IC section with "Those are the guidelines, follow them"?

1) I'll reply to the feedback regarding the law when I've got some time, I've a lot more free time on my hands after today. Also, I'll be posting a draft of the revised laws once I get round to taking a look at it. I didn't write the current set, merely made a few suggestions.

2) Yes, I had every intention of posting the draft of those guidelines both to the council and publically, so you'll see a copy of them in this section when I've completed them.

(Omanos posted his thing while I was writing my previous post)

I fully approve of the Council providing Guard Rights and role-play surrounding that. However I believe it should be a viable option for people to simply RP guards. I am not talking about impersonation as part of a Baddie-strategy however. Those who want to genuinly role-play a guard, and are ready to do so along the council guidelines and laws OR common-sense (stealing is a crime, go figure) should be allowed to do so by the Council and the community.

The council should pretend that those individuals got guard rights (they are members of Stormwind City Guard and that organization got guard rights ). And people should respond to those individuals as if they are legitimate guards as long as the person role-plays it well and reasonably. (on individual basics). If there are problems, they can always be resolved by an OOC conversation, IC Court-marshall and in worst case an ignore.

I know the laws (they are on the forums), I know the guidelines (they will be on the forums) why should I spend my time applying for guard rights if I simply want to role-play a guard? We don't have Thief-rights, News-paper-maker-rights, Cultist-rights, Fanatic-rights? Application for Rights should be a purely IC mechanism for people who want to go through it, or those who want to be a guard for Evil purposes.

At the end of the day, if you are an 'idiot' no ammount of guard-rights is going to fix that; if you are a good RPer who knows what you are doing, lack of guard-rights won't change it either. If a thief robs Ol' Emma and is approached by a guy in Imperial Plate who got a clue, both parties have good RP regardless of rights.

PS: and great about your answers! Looking forward to seeing the things. Imho the -LAWS- is the best thing the Council ever did for Role-play. Enriches things so much.

Well, I'm with you on the idea of people that want to play guards should be able to, but it would be handy for me to at least be contacted regarding it. When it comes to individuals I really have no issues with just being informed OOC'ly and applying it to the IC.

Provided I'm told about it, I can add those names to my lists and then I've got a decent idea of who is RP'ing guards and I can keep tabs on things.

To Omanos:

Thank you for your replies. I still wonder if you believe in the guild idea I have and if you would be willing to IC'ly hire Billiam as the Commander of them with the quest to make it happen. I would make up a story for his background that'd make him suitable, aswell as personality. I am really eager to do this but will not if there is no room.

Forming under one banner - This isn't possible in terms of tabards, guilds or otherwise. This has to be done by gathering representatives for each guild with rights and as many of the individual guards as possible, perhaps once a week or once a fortnight. That way they work effectively as a team, patrols can be organised properly and the responsibility of guarding the streets, evenly shared.

This I love. If I was above mentioned Commander I would be very happy to have shared meetings with my "colleagues" (argh, spelling) and get updates on what is going on.

Thanks Omanos. And OOC notification sounds fair. I am sure even newbies on DB will sooner or later run into mention of the Council and will be directed to you.

Imho the Council should focus on providing help rather than control. Laws, Guidelines and Quick Trials are best things one can do for Guard Guilds and individual guards. So, I fully approve of brief OOC notification, hopefully followed by you linking them the Laws&Guidelines and putting their name up for all to see. If Council ever intends to hold guard-trainings and so on, inviting those individuals to them would be <3 as well.

Mm, I've been thinking on training days once I've got the guard guidelines done and approved, just to make sure everything is understood on an IC level as well. Provided I have the names of the individuals you can count on them being invited!

Edit: Apologies Menyet, I actually managed to not notice your post there!

If you wanted to go ahead and form that sort of guild, you've got my backing. Having guilds with guarding rights is great, yeah, but having a guild solely devoted to that sort of thing would hardly be a bad thing. If you plan on giving it a shot and can devote some time to it, please by all means, do so. You will of course only have power over your own guild and these'll work alongside the already existant people with the power of arrest, I assume?

Just be mindful that this sort of position can be rather frustrating, not everyone responds well to being arrested and on the other end of the stick, I've seen some people RP guards rather poorly.

I'm glad you like the idea about co-ordinating everyone as well, I should think it'll help a great deal.