[A] The Crimson Flame!

Greetings!

I'll answer a few questions you've got on your mind.

Q: What are you?

A: We are a Scarlet Crusade based guild in Stormwind, who RP a small sub-faction of the Crusade, namely the Crimson Legion. We act like true Scarlets, follow Scarlet way and consider ourselves allied to Stormwind and will not harm its inhabitants in any way (Except if they attack us, wich they tend to do often!).

Q: Okay.. so.. the Crusade.. aren't you supposed to be up North in the plaguelands/northrend or something?

A: Good question! As I said before, we play a sub-faction of the Scarlet Crusade named the Crimson Legion. Or the Crimson Flame, as you wish it. So there's not a grand army of Crusaders in Stormwind, merely a specialized faction dispatched to go to Stormwind.

Q: Aren't you guys like.. defeated and dead IC?

A: Of course not. A religious organisation like the Crusade will not just fall because a few players make attempts at our city and some Lich King destroys our only unharmed land. As long as there are undead, there will be Crusaders. Fresh from Stormwind who wish to fight for Lordaeron, or fresh from other regions that hold humans and wish to help. A DK killed your child? You best join the Crusade. Awh, you got ravaged up North by Arthas' undead, and when you come home, you find Arthas' undead, who killed your battlebrothers, in your own city? You better join the Crusade, we will not tolerate them and help you get your vengeance. The Crusade is an idea, an ideaology. And as long as there is evil and despair upon the world, there will be a Crusade to stop it. The corruption and evil has been cleared and rooted from our ranks. No more dreadlords or evil necromancers or death knights amongst us. Only the Crusade. Let the rest handle Northrend, we'll handle the Eastern Kingdoms.

Q: So why are you dispatched and sent to Stormwind?

A: The port-city of Stormwind and Lordaeron have always been great allies. However, now Stormwind faces a grave threat wich may mean its destruction! They are infested by the plague! The scourge (death knights) walk their streets, and they are riddeld with warlocks and necromancers! The last time a death knight entered Lordaeron, it fell! We cannot allow our allies to fall aswell, and we cannot allow our race to perish as the scourge gain more and more foothold, i.e. the city of Stormwind. If Stormwind falls, the Crusade will fall soon after, as we recruit most of our Crusaders from Stormwind (Leftover Lordaeron survivors who wish to protect their family/homes.)

Q: I'm pretty sure you guys attacked me for no reason in the past.. and I was innocent..

A: As I said. The Flame has been alot more radical, agressive and less Scarlety in the past, however our leaders from the Crusade up north have acknowledged this and put The Crimson Flame under a new leader, so we may harbour peace and save the city of Stormwind instead of destroying.

Q: Well I'm pretty sure I saw you fighting a disciple/shield/fakescarlet!

A: Due to the actions of our previous leader, we have been outlawed in Stormwind and we will face arrest and threats from other orders. We will never attack them first, only defend ourselves from them. After all, those who stand by the scourge are like the scourge.

Q: Who do you consider your allies, and who do you consider your enemies?

A: Allies: Any man of the Light. The Church of the Holy Light. The religion of Anethion (We tolerate them and will defend them). Any innocent in Stormwind that does not blasmephe, stand in our way or otherwise halts us.

Enemies: Every and all death knight, no exceptions (Scourge!). The Blazing Shields (They attack us too much). Warlocks. Necromancers. Shadowpriest Mandui's council. Darothars' club of heretics, for spitting on the Crusades' ideals and warping it into a hippie-club for every race/class, regardless of religion.

Q: Okay.. sounds pretty stable and good to me. So, what can I expect from you guys?

A: We will offer a friendly envoirement for new RPers aswell as experienced ones. If you are new, we will guide you, teach you how to RP, give you Scarlet-colours-matching equipment, learn you lore, tell you what addons to use and the whole path into become a professional RPer and Scarlet. For the professionals, there's lots of RP, an awesome and solid lore base, great characters and a good chance to actually do something. There's a many fanatic guilds' on the streets, but are they really? I never see them stand against evil or undeath, I never see them die for their cause, I don't see people fear them. Are they an army of blood-red soldiers soaked through and through with holy verses and fanaticism, or a bunch of tier-10 armour wearing goons with unmatching armour, that want to be heroes? The answer is up to you.

Q: Sounds cool! I always wanted to be fanatic, and learn RP! What do I do to join?

A: The joining procedure of our guild will be grossly IC (In-Character). We'll give you an initiation to proof and deserve your place amongst the Crusades' favoured Crimson Legion. You will need to read up on lore, respect other RPers, never metagame, never poweremote, not be undefeatable. You WILL get defeaten and hurt, count on it. Respect your officers, read up on our guild lore and be willing to have a good time and learn from us. We need you to RP a -fanatic-, not a peaceful hippie lover, we have a strict character-base and strict RPrules and a strict way of acting.

Q: What will you do for the community of DB?

A: There's so many Light guilds out there and uberduper evil guilds, its time for a change. Its time for a morally questionable guild that can be evil or good. Time to give perfect-paladin DB some competition. We're initially criminals, but we won't always be. Our views cannot be seen as evil once you know them but neither exactly as good. We've got rich lore and rich questionable ideals. Who's the REAL bad guy? We're open for guild-events with other guild (even us being defeated) and any RP at all, we can arrange it OOC.

We've made some mistakes in the past, trying to find our place and now we finally have. A more peaceful, diplomatic and awesome Crimson Flame.

To join, whisper Barean or Blaight.

- Our forums:
http://crimsonflame.freeforums.org/
- Our lore:
http://www.wowwiki.com/The_Scarlet_Crusade

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extra info!:

Q: So.. those guys you labelled as your enemies. Do you like.. attack them all the time or so?
A: NO! We -ONLY- and exclusively attack Death Knights, Warlocks or Necromancers. When you have seen us fighting anything else then the aforementioned three it was because we were attacked first and are retaliating, we have been attacked by them in the past and took this chance for revenge or they really really won't stop harassing us ingame.

Q: Well there's some people here who refuse to read your recruitment post. WHY ARE YOU IN STORMWIND THAT IS LORELOL BECAUSE I SAY SO!
A: The port-city of Stormwind and Lordaeron have always been great allies. However, now Stormwind faces a grave threat wich may mean its destruction! They are infested by the plague! The scourge (death knights) walk their streets, and they are riddeld with warlocks and necromancers! The last time a death knight entered Lordaeron, it fell! We cannot allow our allies to fall aswell, and we cannot allow our race to perish as the scourge gain more and more foothold, i.e. the city of Stormwind. If Stormwind falls, the Crusade will fall soon after, as we recruit most of our Crusaders from Stormwind (Leftover Lordaeron survivors who wish to protect their family/homes.)

tl;dr: If Stormwind falls to plague/corruption, the Crusade will fall to plague/corruption and alot of the eastern kingdoms, and we ARE fanatics so we are ICly under the impression Stormwind is under attack by the undead (The same death knights who wiped out all of our wives and children mercilessly. Try to think what YOU would do if your family was murdered and next you saw them walk the streets as civilians after years of fighting.)

Q: Well, dawg, there's here some guys sayin' you rush the Cathedral every second hour and get away with it, winning it all. Sounds to me like you're a bunch of poweremoters.
A: Once! We attacked the Cathedral once to attack a Chapterian inside for possibly the best reason there is: We were blinded by rage because they attacked and stabbed down our captain(leader) and left a taunting note saying who did it. Oh and we got our arses whooped and were totally defeaten and three of us where put in prison for 3 days in a row, taking all the consquences.

Q: Well, I'm out of arguments now. I still don't like you lot. So you poweremote and metagame and ignore guards.

First of all, we're a relatively small force. I doubt every supposed ingame guard would solo himself up to a group of crusaders to make them indentify and seperate them from Darothars' Silver Hand (FakeCrusade). Secondly, I remember Arathor having almost daily fights up the stairs of the Cathedral. Thirdly, I remember the Dark Sphere summoning demons inside the Cathedral. Fourthly, I remember the Chapter of Holy Anethion fighting in Stormwind without NCP guards rushing them. Fourthly, I remember OTS dealing drugs and fighting in open streets without NCP guards rushing them. Fiftly, I remember criminal guilds robbing people without NCP guards rushing them. Poweremoting and metagaming is against our guild policy.

So wat, there are no guards at all?

We have learnt our lesson and are acting a little more subtle. And avoid attacking anything at Cath. Aside from that one excluded event.
There's; The Blazing Shields, The Argent Guard, The Disciples of Light, The Scarlet Crusade(not the real one of course.), Geldar, That Random Tier Ten Paladin Who's Bored.
Together they are quite the immense and useful guard-guild and have taken it upon them to guard Stormwind and have done so successfully in the past. Salutations to them and we take them IC.

Q: Well you've got some new members who not all know the rules. Thats lame.

A: Well forgive us for trying to spread and bring RP to new people and offer people a chance to RP with a guild, sorry for trying to bring the server up and better its RP envoirement. Sorry for being nice?

And lastly, a message:

If you are burdened troubled by us IC, we would love that you would approach us about it and discuss it with us. We've recently had such a discussion with the Chapter and we want to improve and make things so that we all enjoy roleplaying with each other and that you enjoy roleplaying with us. We are open for events, for playing the victim, we are open and helpful. If you are wronged in anyway, bring it up with us ingame. Not over forums.

Thank you all.

We are a Scarlet Crusade based guild in Stormwind, who RP a small sub-faction of the Crusade, namely the Crimson Legion. We act like true Scarlets, follow Scarlet way and consider ourselves allied to Stormwind and will not harm its inhabitants in any way (Except if they attack us, wich they tend to do often!).

Italics'd the parts that dont fit in the same sentance.

If you acted like true Scarlets you wouldnt be friendly and diplomatic in Stormwind. We dont need another bunch of Stormwind-Loving Scarlets.

I hate seeing my favourite faction in WoW always have there lore butchered in RP Guilds... *Sigh*

Aesthetic wrote:We act like true Scarlets, follow Scarlet way and consider ourselves allied to Stormwind and will not harm its inhabitants in any way (Except if they attack us, wich they tend to do often!)

Aesthetic wrote:Enemies: Every and all death knight, no exceptions (Scourge!). The Blazing Shields (They attack us too much). Warlocks. Necromancers. Shadowpriest Mandui's council. Darothars' club of heretics, for spitting on the Crusades' ideals and warping it into a hippie-club for every race/class, regardless of religion.

Is that slightly off or is it just me? You decide to stay in Stormwind despite the fact that you consider its majority enemies?

This far, I personally had only one single IC experience with the guild, so I didn't have the chance to form an opinion myself. However, the amount of IC and OOC conflicts that have occured since the return of the guild, has already become a topic of many discussions and I've heard many people saying that they've decided to actively avoid roleplaying with you guys. This thread made me think that the reason for it might be the incoherence and contradictions the entire guild concept is based on.

Aye, its like a Nazi walking around a club of Homosexual Jewish Blacks and being friendly to them all, really... Lots of people do avoid them, and with more then enough reasons. I'm also ignoring most of them, only 2 arent on my ignore list. Thats because they first caught me without any permittion, then wanted to kill me without permittion. There are circumstances I would just let people kill me, ofcourse. But when I refused to let them kill me, they had some sort of paddy and one of there higher-ups told everyone to ignore me, and not long after I realised they started telling people about it, trying to get them to ignore me for that and even bending the story, which in my opinion is just childish. Not a good guild, in my honest opinion.

And wow, im pretty damn amazed I managed to produce that at 4 in the freakin' morning.

Sorry, but the Crimson Flame's oppertunity to be a competant rp guild died at least a year ago.

if this is supposed to be a flame threat, feel free to delete my input:

I think it is great to see a guild with some ideals!

The pure-knight line of throught appeals a lot to me. I have been longing for some actual resistance for a long time (remember, I'm a darksider). The Chapter came first and they were uncompromising, relentless and unlimited in their awesome culture.

Now you're different (as it should be) but I'm glad to see that you seem to have some oppinions and some aspects that makes you unique compared to an average lightie guild.

My advice would be: Stick to your beliefs and ideals. The things that causes conflict are exactly the things that creates RP and it is what makes you unique.

Now you have to go and proove that you are what this threat promises, ofcourse, but I will not prejudge you.

P.S: If you didn't quite catch my first comment, lay off the unconstructive flaming. Yeah, they're offensive against your character Mandui, but that is clearly their in-character views, so no offense intended I'm sure.
Remember - you don't have to read this thread if you don't want to


Good luck crimsons!
/Mordazan

I think the more roleplayers we got on this server, the better.

Learn from your mistakes and move on.

And maybe ask Elízabéth Moren for forgiveness...

/Bill

Mordazan wrote:
My advice would be: Stick to your beliefs and ideals. The things that causes conflict are exactly the things that creates RP and it is what makes you unique.

Now you have to go and proove that you are what this threat promises, ofcourse, but I will not prejudge you.

P.S: If you didn't quite catch my first comment, lay off the unconstructive flaming. Yeah, they're offensive against your character Mandui, but that is clearly their in-character views, so no offense intended I'm sure.
Remember - you don't have to read this thread if you don't want to

You clearly misunderstood me there. I said I only had one RP experience with said guild and thus couldn't quite form an opinion for myself. The problem isn't the fact that they are offensive towards my character, the problem is rather that they are offensive towards the majority of Stormwind's population, and yet they decide to stay there. It makes neither an IC nor an OOC sense to hang around a city, whose population is on your list of enemies in its majority. It won't necessarily create more RP, it will cause conflicts which will initially begin ICly but will end up with an ignore, something that has happened more than once.

It personally doesn't really concern me how they lead this guild, since my character isn't even involved with them. So clearly, no offense was intended from my side when I replied. I read the thread because I finally wanted to figure out what the whole fuzz is about and why so many people decided to put this guild on ignore. I did see the contradiction in the original post and decided to reply to it. After all, it is a forum and people are free to state their opinions

Sorry, but the Crimson Flame's oppertunity to be a competant rp guild died at least a year ago.

I am terribly sorry, you might have some great/good Role Players in your guild but from my past and present experiences with it and the way things are handled by your people, and I ain`t speaking just for myself here as many have said this over and over and over, either learn how to handle things in a more realistic plausible fashion regarding what you can and what you cannot actually do or dont expect to be taken seriously at all.

Can't say I disagree with people here. Only time I see Crimson Flame is when they emote spam attack some poor player in the Cathedral district, and COMPLETELY ignore the fact that there are guards wandering past them. And then when I hear that you say it is the guard-guilds fault cause they are not around 24/7.. Thanks, but no thanks. You really need to sort that out if you do wish to become a respected guild, I believe.

I'm really sorry. From the first post I thought this was about a guild presenting themself.
The seems to be telling the guild that it is terrible and that the guild should simply be butchered, their members pushed up against the wall and shot.

I would like to request a mod to delete my first post (I might be able to do it myself, but can't quite figure out how), since it appears to be way off.

@Mandui, I'm sorry if I misinterpeted what you were trying to say. I'm glad you adress the level of involvement with the guild you have and connect it to your concerns towards the leadership, and I agree very much.
I do not agree that IC conflicts is an argument against the guild, rather the opposite.

If any of this requires elaboration, please contact me via PM.

Crimson Flame are a great, and lore abiding Scarlet guild. How people can flame (Har. Har) them when we have Nelf Dr00d Furries claiming to be from another Scarlet guild around is beyond me.

Having been their rival guild followed by much 'observing' their recent reformation for a while I can say they're in Hearthglen ALOT more than Stormwind.

Yes, there have been OOC incidents in the past even with us (Inital Anti-alliance between Lichbanes and CF started off VERY rocky but eventually turned into some the best roleplaying events and plotlines I have ever taken a part in) but for the most part this is one the best guilds on the server. Simply because they aren't in the "Veteran Top Guilds" personal list cross-arse licking is no reason to flame 'em.

By Anaei's logic then Blazing Shields, Arathor, the Stormwind Council and more would have lost the ability to be a 'competant" by now then anyway - Why shouldn't they be given a chance?

Ignoring NPC guards? Yeah, terrible. Imagine if a guild just ignored the Syndicate and Ogre mobs in Stromgarde or when Horde RP-PvP guilds attacked/crossed through Arathi with the excuse they "Didn't want to be attacked", hahahaha..

but for the most part this is one the best guilds on the server.

I laughed till` I got cramps in my stomach reading this part of your post. But lets start from the top.

Crimson Flame are a great, and lore abiding Scarlet guild

Then they should be stationed up north, not stay and pretend they are invincible when they make the next zerg rush in the Cathedral district. Not to mention the fact they do not try to conceal their identities by any means within a City of the Alliance, where infact such elements (fanatical crusaders etc) are to be hung.

By Anaei's logic then Blazing Shields, Arathor, the Stormwind Council and more would have lost the ability to be a 'competant" by now then anyway - Why shouldn't they be given a chance?

No, not really. Because the above mentioned have and continue to provide productive role playing for the entire community instead of head-desking moments. (for reference see Cathedral zerg rush)

Ignoring NPC guards?

Omg we cant take over a capital of the Alliance and do whatever we want inside as if its our playground with ten people? Wtf they actually have military to oppose our legions??

To conclude, nothing against the guild as said above. But dont expect people to take you/them seriously if you continue this way. -shrug-

Awesome, A recruitment post turned into a pissing contest.

Pathetic.

Wubeh wrote:Awesome, A recruitment post turned into a pissing contest.

Pathetic.

What else is new.

Geldar wrote:

but for the most part this is one the best guilds on the server.

I laughed till` I got cramps in my stomach reading this part of your post. But lets start from the top.

Having an opinion. Its hilarious isn't it?

Crimson Flame are a great, and lore abiding Scarlet guild

Then they should be stationed up north

/Who them on most hours and you'll see they are infact in the Western Plaguelands.

not stay and pretend they are invincible when they make the next zerg rush in the Cathedral district.

They do for this for event purposes in my experiences. I don't know why you of all people are complaining as it lets you storm in with your SUPEHL337GOLDENB0YEPIXX and save the day.

Not to mention the fact they do not try to conceal their identities by any means within a City of the Alliance, where infact such elements (fanatical crusaders etc) are to be hung.

They only do this in numbers, as a mob trying to rally support. Besides, considering one of the largest RP guilds on the server runs about with Scarlet Crusade tabards as well I don't see how they couldn't be mistaken for one of them by the average peasant/guards. Most of the time in Stormwind I've happened upon them wearing Argent Dawn tabards and equipment.

Because the above mentioned have and continue to provide productive role playing for the entire community instead of head-desking moments. (for reference see Cathedral zerg rush)

Head-desking? When? A incident with Sepoficus and his 2 moment "Dreadlord" stint several months ago. Before that most people sung their praises.

Ignoring NPC guards?

Omg we cant take over a capital of the Alliance and do whatever we want inside as if its our playground with ten people? Wtf they actually have military to oppose our legions??

Uhm, considering 99% of people don't do this as a generally accepted fact...

To conclude, nothing against the guild as said above. But dont expect people to take you/them seriously if you continue this way. -shrug-

As I don't take another Golden Boy Loladin who is the General of all Stormwind Military, married to somebody who openly rides around practicing Fel Magic and riding a Felsteed seriously eithjer. Nothing against you of course.

Yeah.

I don't see how they couldn't be mistaken for one of them by the average peasant/guards

That was sorted in a Council meeting I belive, the ''Guard'' Scarlets have an Insignia to show there Identity as the ''Guard'' Scarlets, I belive.

They do for this for event purposes in my experiences. I don't know why you of all people are complaining as it lets you storm in with your SUPEHL337GOLDENB0YEPIXX and save the day.

No, because you always wait untill all of the guards are offline and then you zerg rush.

Uhm, considering 99% of people don't do this as a generally accepted fact...

But they know that theres a line, you cant swarm into a capital city with a ''small'' number of people when your an enemy of the city.

Eruadan/Gunnell/Graham wrote:They only do this in numbers, as a mob trying to rally support. Besides, considering one of the largest RP guilds on the server runs about with Scarlet Crusade tabards as well I don't see how they couldn't be mistaken for one of them by the average peasant/guards. Most of the time in Stormwind I've happened upon them wearing Argent Dawn tabards and equipment.

Pretty sure this was explained on a Council meeting, that the ones of the Stormwind Scarlet Crusade have their tabard AND an insignia. Those without that insignia and a Scarlet tabard was to be arrested/killed on sight (or something alike).

As I don't take another Golden Boy Loladin who is the General of all Stormwind Military, married to somebody who openly rides around practicing Fel Magic and riding a Felsteed seriously eithjer. Nothing against you of course.

Kek, atleast get your facts straight if you are to throw dirt around.


PS: And what the two above posters said.

Eruadan/Gunnell/Graham wrote:

Wubeh wrote:Awesome, A recruitment post turned into a pissing contest.

Pathetic.

What else is new.

I expected more from the moderators.

Saihna Trollbane wrote:

Eruadan/Gunnell/Graham wrote:They only do this in numbers, as a mob trying to rally support. Besides, considering one of the largest RP guilds on the server runs about with Scarlet Crusade tabards as well I don't see how they couldn't be mistaken for one of them by the average peasant/guards. Most of the time in Stormwind I've happened upon them wearing Argent Dawn tabards and equipment.

Pretty sure this was explained on a Council meeting, that the ones of the Stormwind Scarlet Crusade have their tabard AND an insignia. Those without that insignia and a Scarlet tabard was to be arrested/killed on sight (or something alike).

I hate to stick my nose into these kinda matters, but isn't that kind of a retarded decision considering not everyone on the entire server attends the Council meetings?

"Okioki, only your guild may wear these tabards. The rest are to be arrested or killed."

I hate to stick my nose into these kinda matters, but isn't that kind of a retarded decision considering not everyone on the entire server attends the Council meetings?

"Okioki, only your guild may wear these tabards. The rest are to be arrested or killed."

Guards and Scarlets were given a insignia (GHI item I think) to wear to distinguish themselfs from imposters, as there were quite alot of imposters going around claiming they are from this order and doing this and that while they were just impersonating them.

Example: You see two people walking around the city both wearing the Scarlet Tabard. One has a insignia, the other does not. Meaning the one without the insignia should not be trusted as he is not a guard.

And it was announced on the Council, as do`h all the guard order representatives/officers are usually present there. If there was a better meeting spot/conclave/place to announce such a matter, it will be done there.

Well, if you ask me wearing a tabard like this in the first place should always be questioned. I'd consider it as bad as walking freely with a TDS tabard. Only one guild has really proven themselves acceptable to walk with it freely, not being fanatics like the Crusade is (as far as I've understood lore at least). I'm probably wrong with the KoS thing, they most likely approach and question people with the tabard. And anyone can get said insignia, if they go through a process of trials to become a valid City Guard, same with guilds. In fact, if people weren't on the meeting I even made an article about it in the Roaring Lion

I can agree that things need to be a bit more.. advertised perhaps. It is fair enough that not everyone go to Council/Senate/Such alike meetings. But isn't it at least a little up to each person to try and stay up to date with the server lore? I think so at least.

Saihna Trollbane wrote:Well, if you ask me wearing a tabard like this in the first place should always be questioned. I'd consider it as bad as walking freely with a TDS tabard. Only one guild has really proven themselves acceptable to walk with it freely, not being fanatics like the Crusade is (as far as I've understood lore at least). I'm probably wrong with the KoS thing, they most likely approach and question people with the tabard. And anyone can get said insignia, if they go through a process of trials to become a valid City Guard, same with guilds. In fact, if people weren't on the meeting I even made an article about it in the Roaring Lion

I can agree that things need to be a bit more.. advertised perhaps. It is fair enough that not everyone go to Council/Senate/Such alike meetings. But isn't it at least a little up to each person to try and stay up to date with the server lore? I think so at least.

My point is that not everyone is part of this inner circle.

Might be better to give a little more leeway both ways. As you said, questioned, sure. Arrest/Kill-on-sight? Way overkill to be decided by 10 people every week.

Edit: OT, good luck with your recruitment. Hope it all turns out well.

I was obviously over exaggerating though. I'm not part of the Council anyway so. But knowing them I'm pretty sure they'd talk to people and advise/question be it IC or OOC, should a person be new to the realm.