Stormwind - Guard to Citizen ratio

Of course, I mainly play my thug, Lucy, so my views might be slightly one sided.. However, I feel like there are way too many guards right now and a lack of other folk. Obviously, being a thug we depend on other people to steal from often and to interact with. But lately every time I try there is a patrol of guard on their way or the person yells, as they would, but it is so close the Cathedral, as every where is, that Disciples come running.

Guards are a good thing but imo there are just too many. I realise Disciples have had guard rights for ages but since guilds cannot just be forced to disband I think that their rights to arrest should be taken away. I honestly have no problem with them, I love what they do, the RP is good with them, but it would be my only suggestion to help this ratio.

On another side note, I wanted to add a lot of meta-gaming has been going on as of late. I've noticed minor things myself, but mainly from what others have told me recently about experiences. By this I mean that thugs are committing a crime, being -very- careful not to be arrested and then someone knows their name or location and things begin to not add up.

As for less individual crimes like the recent brawl outside the Pig 'n' Whistle, a few suggestions had come out that it was the 'Company' but too many for it to sit well with many people. I hope people remember there would IC'ly be so many more people in the city.

Sorry of the long message that slightly derailed. But here's some thoughts that I had. Don't think anything will be done about it but wondered if anyone else has had the same thoughts as myself recently?

We will not be giving up our Guard rights now or in the future.
We defend the Church laws as well as the normal Stormwind Laws, but if we deal with normal thugs we hand them over to the Blazing Shields as we work together with them very closely.

If you feel there are too many guards, there is a simple solution. Stop committing crimes, particularly near the Cathedral. For too long, Stormwind has had a highly unrealistic crime rate, so it's entirely logical that the response would be to appoint more guards. Even if it were a problem, it wouldn't be fair to take guard rights away from the only original Guard guild that still exists.

There will be no "taking away" of guard rights.

The issue of guard to criminal ratios is one that is bound to fluctuate often. When it is high on the guard side, criminals simply need to be more subtle, and hide their activities better. For example, not using the Shady Lady when everyone knows it's a criminal hideout.

Metagaming however is definitely wrong, and people should not be doing it. Floating guild tags/character names are OOC and people should remember that.

I don't believe there is a IC reason for Disciple's to have their guard rights removed because someone calls for it on a forum post. Disciples right now are not frontline guards but deal with special cases such as Cultisms as wulfgnar said we hand over our thugs / street robbers to the shields. Most of the arrests disciples make are within the cathedral district and of course if you are brave enough to try and rob a priest infront of us, we will be there to stop you.

I don't know why you specifically picked out the Disciples out of the three guard guilds that are around? Is there a reason for such?

I never really understood why all of Stormwind's military were confined to nothing more than guard duties in Stormwind.

I don't see a point in not committing crimes since I'm in a criminal guild to do criminal stuff. I just feel that the high amount of guards has hindered RP. Also, as to cell RP I prefer to be arrested by Regiment since Shields will often gag you and there is -much- less RP in the shield's cells. Regiment interact a lot more and also a lot of the meta gaming problems, I am sorry to say, have come from the Shields.

Oh, I picked out Disciples because the other two are more specifically guard guilds with a cell, etc. I've always seen Disciples as more of a war type, healing guild myself.

Edit: As in the disciples would have plenty to do even without the rights.

Tahlrana wrote:lot of the meta gaming problems, I am sorry to say, have come from the Shields.

I think this post should be locked before it causes pages of unnecessary drama.

Tahlrana wrote:I don't see a point in not committing crimes since I'm in a criminal guild to do criminal stuff. I just feel that the high amount of guards has hindered RP. Also, as to cell RP I prefer to be arrested by Regiment since Shields will often gag you and there is -much- less RP in the shield's cells. Regiment interact a lot more and also a lot of the meta gaming problems, I am sorry to say, have come from the Shields.

Personally i've only seen prisoners gagged when they cause considerable amounts of trouble, as for the meta-gaming im not sure about that really but i know Falrock would not allow such a thing to be happening if he knows about it and i don't believe you should be naming and shaming them on the forums like you are doing.

Tahlrana wrote:Oh, I picked out Disciples because the other two are more specifically guard guilds with a cell, etc. I've always seen Disciples as more of a war type, healing guild myself.

Edit: As in the disciples would have plenty to do even without the rights.

Disciples of Light in the past are a war guild yes but they are also supplementary guards but they are not a healing guild they do not exist for that purpose but due to the virtue of compassion we are required to aid people when they are hurt, but they're not meant to be healing bots.

I don't really know why everyone is extremely angry or annoyed right now. I thought it was an issue, didn't see the shame in bringing it up. If it's true that I've had issues, and so have others, with one guild in particular then why is it bad to discuss it. I'm sorry, I did not realise everyone would be mad if I brought it up.

Raenmar wrote:I never really understood why all of Stormwind's military were confined to nothing more than guard duties in Stormwind.

There are 3 Stormwind military guilds. Two do guard duty, one does not.

The Disciples are not a military guild, they're a holy order.

tbh guard - criminal ratio is fine, but I'll bet you all all my gold that if we didn't have a guildtag we'd be accused of a lot less.

Request to be locked. But I have to say I am a little disappointed I couldn't bring up an issue I had without people getting a tad angry with it. I did try to bring it up in the most polite manner I could.

I've always thought that TFC (and other similar organizations) would function better as a non-guild organization. Especially since you guys don't use guild chat anyway.

Tahlrana wrote:I don't really know why everyone is extremely angry or annoyed right now. I thought it was an issue, didn't see the shame in bringing it up. If it's true that I've had issues, and so have others, with one guild in particular then why is it bad to discuss it. I'm sorry, I did not realise everyone would be mad if I brought it up.

It's DefiasRP. People just want an excuse to get mad.

Tahlrana wrote:Request to be locked. But I have to say I am a little disappointed I couldn't bring up an issue I had without people getting a tad angry with it. I did try to bring it up in the most polite manner I could.

Well from what i saw it was very impolite you singled out the Disciples for losing guard rights when you could have said one of the three guilds and then you accused the Shields of meta-gaming not very polite at all.

"I prefer to be arrested by Regiment since Shields will often gag you and there is -much- less RP in the shield's cells"

Firstly, we only gag people if they continue to talk and harass guards. We always give warnings first, so it's up to you if you wear a gag. Most of the time, we'll just give you a slap for it.

" meta gaming problems, I am sorry to say, have come from the Shields."

We always discourage meta-gaming, we only act and question people on what we've heard ICly. Often more than once alot of people have walked scott free, even if they are actually guilty and we know they are. Bradley is a prime example of that. Our characters often search the crime hot spots though and will be more suspicious of past criminals and shady characters. This is not meta-gaming, and i find it silly that the Cartel have moved back into the Shady Lady area.

I would also like to mention that you have had personal beef with the Shields since you were once a member of my guild. But called me a 'dick head' and said i could be 'as stubborn as bismack' because i wouldn't invite your Worgen alt to the guild. So i kicked you out and ignored your character, so i find this all very biased.

Quite frankly i have found most of what you said offensive, accusing us of meta-gaming and not RPing properly with our prisoners.. when you've only been in the cells.. once? Briefly?

The Disciples of Light are an older guild than the Shields and have nearly always held guard rights, they do their jobs well ICly too and enjoy having them which i highly support.

Bradley, nice avatar by the way!

Drustai wrote:I've always thought that TFC (and other similar organizations) would function better as a non-guild organization. Especially since you guys don't use guild chat anyway.

Moving the guild chat to a channel instead was the first move towards a non-guild cartel actually, back when we were just a few months old. It never went through though.

There are a large number of pirates right now as well and there has always been a great lack of the say "Average citizen." But yes i think the ratio isn't too big right now. People play what they want.

The large numbers of patrols is the large number of crimes going now and then, but there are routes most don't take, which is what i don't see exploited by criminals as much. That or lookouts. But then again i haven't been too big part of the action lately in thug crimes, but mostly aiding in cell rp and patrols.

If someone metagames, adress them, if that doesn't help adress their GM Ingame, usually helps the best.

But yes guards and thugs don't tend to be too smart, both sides sometimes just want to get something to punch and the investigation/search/mugging/pickpocketing/whatever seems to not be really too well planed or cautious.

One thing is the Shady lady is like a crime magnet and once i remember there was some ic rule to not do any crime at it... Didn't seem to work out great now did it? Just saying as an example.

I sadly don't know a lot of things that happen myself since i hop on my guard now and then.

Was thinking the same too.

We did actually try to step back as guards at one point, by the way, when we relocated to Westbrook Garrison. However, most of the trouble just followed us there.

It's most likely that Tahl singled out the Disciples because she's somewhat "newish" to the server so probably didn't realise that they had guard rights prior to the Regiment. The Regiment comes across as the most guard-like as well.

What I think is an issue:
I've not been around for the last couple of months or so but here's my opinion. I do think that the three guard guilds do not take advantage of the fact that they have rivals. There should be more arguments between the guilds, maybe a judge from each guild for trials. I still think that if the Regiment controlled the east side of Stormwind and the Shields controlled the west (or north and south), it'd allow for some really fun and interesting rp e.g. a body floats down the canal and ends up in Eastern Stormwind but the Regiment argue that it's the Shields problem as he was clearly killed in the West.

What I've experienced is OOC rivalry between the guilds and it's dull as fuck. I will admit, you guys may have changed now, but the Blazing Shields ignored people IC/OOC from the Regiment when they first came back. I hope that much has changed as that was poor role-play.


Too many guards:
This tends to happen every so often. Too many crims, too many guards. It's not a quick problem to solve but if there are less criminals, eventually guards will become bored and things will even up again.