Diary of Coppersocket

That was actually a perfect evaluation of why accents are   Lex.

Arthas, Lordaeron
Tirion, Plaguelands (Lordaeron)
Uther, Lordaeron
Wrynn & Anduin, Stormwind
Trollbane, Arathi Highlands
Orcs, Arathi/Outland
Night Elves, Teldrassil
Gnomes, Dun Morogh

heres my tuppence - all of these characters have the same accent because Chris Motherfucking Metzen voices all of them. Seriously, whats your problem Copper?

Vaell wrote:That was actually a perfect evaluation of why accents are   Lex.

ofc Vaell. Lex is normally right, just no one listens so now im embittered and hate you all! 

Chihuahuaofdoom wrote:To be fair it only bothers me if someone pulls something like this to stand out.
For the thrill of some cheap attention, which is very common in RP.

We're all guilty of this.

We use stop-gap measures to fill in the blanks for almost everything else.

Some people role-play their character with an accent. It seems unreasonable to expect that areas with distinct geological barriers (we have to consider that Azeroth is far far larger than what we see in-game) will be blanketed by one all-consuming accent.

Why don't we get angry about something that really matters? Like destroying the colour green!

So I held off to look at this thread until midnight, and I got to say- Whatever you people think of me or my post or whatever the fuck else you're trying to correct me on. Seeing people getting into discussion about it, just shows that it was worth bringing up.

Demurral wrote:heres my tuppence - all of these characters have the same accent because Chris Motherfucking Metzen voices all of them. Seriously, whats your problem Copper?

Everyone's got a problem, I'm willing to talk about my faults and explain them. Can you say the same?

It's irrelevant what you think of me. That's not the purpose of this thread.
What purpose it currently has tho, is being in full motion currently. It's interesting to see peoples views on such a minor subject. In the end, it's irrelevant what people think because it's a matter nobody will be able to change or whatever, but people expressing how they view the subject is still interesting.

But if you absolutely must question my sanity I suggest you start reading up on the thread where I explain why I react as I do. It's all here, on this thread.
Have fun.

As to everyone else: thank you for sharing your opinions, thoughs, and views.

I've come to the conclusion that it's something people are torn on but in general seem to have a sort of consensus that they believe I was wrong on this.
I should have approached the situation differently, that's for certain. But I do stand by the fact that this is a game world, and I believe that the lack of information doesn't prove that there's a dialect and the fact that one claims that there is, is simply silly when there's no evidence of such.
So my view on the subject hasn't changed.

That said, as I have said before- I won't actively stop anyone from RPing with these things. People are free to do what they want. But I will still say that I don't agree with it. I may be a cunt, but I'm not a persistent cunt. I do what I feel is correct at that moment and then I move on.

Anyhow, this is where I'll stop reading this thread this time. If anyone feel there's something they must absolutely tell me about this topic then find me online. Otherwise, see you on the next entry. Whenever that'll be, or cover.

Vaell wrote:What accent are you referring to, Zaraj? When people talk like this?

"Wha's goin' on?" as opposed to
"What's going on?"

Yeah, pretty much the established Old Town Syndicate accent or whatnot always bugged me. Not really having anything against OTS, the trend of possessing the accent just to show how dirty or criminal a character is, is just a shallow feature that really doesn't add anything to the character. What bugged me more about it was that everyone soon had this accent. I can see the reasoning behind why someone would pair their character with a criminal or poor background with a more colloquial way of speaking, but my issue with it is more that it's just a tacked on feature to show that your character is shady. Says the man with a skeleton mask

It's a minor issue, sure, though what bugs me even more is that Arathorians supposedly all talk like rednecks, referring to their dads as "Pa's" and whatnot, which doesn't make as much sense to me seeing as the only Arathorian voiced in Warcraft didn't speak like that.

Edit: Actually, what I mean by colloquial way of speak is Vaell's example, with endless amounts of shortenings of words, which brought another idea to mind. Colloquial way of speaking could after all just mean less usage of more complex words. That, in a way, speaks of background just as much as an "accent", which is also something I'd prefer.

Blizzard doesn't state that there's regional accents.
Blizzard doesn't state that there isn't regional accents.

People can state that their character has a regional accent. It doesn't restrict RP. Rather, It does spice up RP for quite a few people, so what's the problem?

Nobody's claiming that -not- having a regional accent is wrong. Some people, like me, just enjoy playing with accents. It's not to stand out, or be 'tough'. It's just yet another character trait. Vaell got everything spot on.

The use of punctuation in dialogue to show slang is common in novelists and script writers both. It gives a clear understanding of how someone might sound and it's perfectly legitimate to criminals and low classes. Take the scene from GoT where Tywin is questioning Arya's use of the way she says "my lord".

Shortening of words and heavy use of apostrophes is usually not recommended for writing though, Vaell, and where it is used it has to be done very carefully. It's a very heavy-handed way of writing an accent that tends to take readers out of the scene rather than immersing them in it. It tends to distract the reader more than convey a dialect.

Syntax and word usage are a better method of it than shortenings, using appropriate words for the character and slight sentence structure variations. Whatever accent you do, you want it to be subtle. Apostrophes and shortening are not, and each and every word that loses its g is something that the reader will immediately pick up. This is because the apostrophe has a very specific purpose in sentences and when it's used for something else, readers notice this. Likewise, readers expect a word to be spelt a certain way. If it's spelt a different way, they immediately notice. If you instead convey the accent through different word choice and slight restructurings of the sentence, you don't immediately attack the reader's sensibilities. The words all get spelt as they expect them to be, apostrophes don't appear in random places, the sentence just sounds a bit different because of the way it's constructed. It's something I've especially been playing with extensively on my Gilnean lately ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]).

Spoiler:

As far as regional goes, I think the point already mentioned by other people goes here. You can't claim something as the accent for an entire area if that area has no defined accent in the official lore. You can say it was perhaps a common accent in the area (establishing it as one of many that could exist), or that it identifies people from a particular town (especially if your character comes from a madeup town), as especially in fantasy settings where most people live in the same place all their lives and never move even two different towns in the same region could have two entirely different ways of speaking. The issue with claiming that an accent is used by the entire region is that it forces anyone who creates characters who are also from that region to also have that accent. That's godmoding.

You tell 'em, 'ow it is, Dru!

Well, got told to come back to the thread. Drustai hit it on the nail, explaining Why I had issues with this. Way better than I ever could've.

I didn't even classify it under godmoding, but now that you've mentioned. That's exactly it. It's fucking Godmoding.
Thank you Drustai, for conveying a message I failed to properly convey.

You can say it was perhaps a common accent in the area (establishing it as one of many that could exist), or that it identifies people from a particular town (especially if your character comes from a madeup town), as especially in fantasy settings where most people live in the same place all their lives and never move even two different towns in the same region could have two entirely different ways of speaking.

Did you completely fail to read this? Just assume THIS is what's happening. Don't read it as "Everyone from Duskwood has this accent", read it as "If you want to have your char recognize this accent, your char would be able to figure out that my char is from Duskwood."

Jesus christ, Coppersocket.

Can't you just agree to disagree Ixirar...

And on a different note, forcing your made up plots no matter how insignificant or painfully obvious, on others shouldn't ever be something anyone that enjoys roleplaying have to go through.

Again, I'll stress the fact that I really couldn't care less about some made up accent, but it doesn't change the fact that taking liberties in your character development that affects others is kind of selfish.
I mean what's next, cyborg worgen?

Let me repeat what I said earlier.

If he REALLY wants people to know that his character's from Darkshire, there are other ways to let people know without making up your own lore.

Whe' ef hew tulks liek dis. Huh? then what, I guess we're just suppose to be cool with that, because you know... it's just an accent right.

As for how plausible it may be, that's about a legit an argument as saying that the ebola virus could exist in wow, because it's a disease, and diseases exist in the universe of wow...

But to avoid appearing as a hypocrite I'll repeat myself.
This is just my opinion, and we obviously don't agree Ixirar, so let's keep it at that, because you are equally entitled to your opinion so don't get me wrong, this is just my perspective.

Drustai wrote:Shortening of words and heavy use of apostrophes is usually not recommended for writing though, Vaell, and where it is used it has to be done very carefully. It's a very heavy-handed way of writing an accent that tends to take readers out of the scene rather than immersing them in it. It tends to distract the reader more than convey a dialect.

Syntax and word usage are a better method of it than shortenings, using appropriate words for the character and slight sentence structure variations. Whatever accent you do, you want it to be subtle. Apostrophes and shortening are not, and each and every word that loses its g is something that the reader will immediately pick up. This is because the apostrophe has a very specific purpose in sentences and when it's used for something else, readers notice this. Likewise, readers expect a word to be spelt a certain way. If it's spelt a different way, they immediately notice. If you instead convey the accent through different word choice and slight restructurings of the sentence, you don't immediately attack the reader's sensibilities. The words all get spelt as they expect them to be, apostrophes don't appear in random places, the sentence just sounds a bit different because of the way it's constructed. It's something I've especially been playing with extensively on my Gilnean lately ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]).

Spoiler:

As far as regional goes, I think the point already mentioned by other people goes here. You can't claim something as the accent for an entire area if that area has no defined accent in the official lore. You can say it was perhaps a common accent in the area (establishing it as one of many that could exist), or that it identifies people from a particular town (especially if your character comes from a madeup town), as especially in fantasy settings where most people live in the same place all their lives and never move even two different towns in the same region could have two entirely different ways of speaking. The issue with claiming that an accent is used by the entire region is that it forces anyone who creates characters who are also from that region to also have that accent. That's godmoding.

Dru had the best, i don't speak common very well accent.

I have to disagree, Drustai. I think you can't generalize the reader to such a heavy extent. I agree that syntax and using words to convey your accent often work better to show your regional dialect but in an interactive writing game, which is what we play, I actually find the shortening of the words and use of apostrophes extremely useful to characterise. I, personally, do not get distracted when I see the misuse of apostrophes and that might be because I'm nearer London and I can instantly picture the way each word's being pronounced. It's extremely common. Wa'er instead of water.

When I play Kyven, the reason I use it heavily is to show ignorance. It does help show others that this person is of a lesser class. I also use it as a tool so people find it difficult to understand him as I'm sure many Cartel do.

Btw that video you linked should have gone into detail about how she's only representing the accent for some areas of Southern England.



But back on topic. It isn't godmoding for the reason Ixirar is providing. Copper and Dru didn't read anything people opposing the argument have posted. This person isn't forcing an accent on an area.

They aren't saying "Duskwood Accent, btw anyone who has the same accent, you sound like..."

They're trying to create a more immersive world by providing the opportunity for your character to recognise their wherabouts from their manner/voice. This avoids the repetative origin story. It's like someone's given you their figurines to paint and said "I've only got grey and brown paint at the minute." and you've taken that for "ONLY USE GREY AND BROWN", denying any offer of colour.

They could say they're from a small fictional town. You could argue making up a town is godmoding but as it's only beneficial to role-play, I doubt anyone would be that petty.

Also, Chihuahua, diseases don't follow the rules of language. The point in hand was that by the understanding of how language and dialect works, there would certainly be some difference. But because that hasn't been officially confirmed, we should keep things bland and have everyone's voices be exactly the same.

Chihuahuaofdoom wrote:
Whe' ef hew tulks liek dis. Huh? then what, I guess we're just suppose to be cool with that, because you know... it's just an accent right.

This is the most important thing in this whole debate. Coppersocket had a go at him before he even saw him abusing the accent. Sure, if he forced the accent and said others had to have it, it'd be godmoding. But Copper just wanted to update this thread and thought his original post was funny - whereas it was a dick move.

Vaell wrote:I have to disagree, Drustai. I think you can't generalize the reader to such a heavy extent. I agree that syntax and using words to convey your accent often work better to show your regional dialect but in an interactive writing game, which is what we play, I actually find the shortening of the words and use of apostrophes extremely useful to characterise. I, personally, do not get distracted when I see the misuse of apostrophes and that might be because I'm nearer London and I can instantly picture the way each word's being pronounced. It's extremely common. Wa'er instead of water.

I won't say it's always bad. You can't generalize, no, though this thread by itself already shows that it isn't appreciated by some readers. But that doesn't mean it can't be done. Huckleberry Finn is a commonly cited example of a professional, classic work that uses shortenings and apostrophes. I personally don't mind reading that style that much, since I've been RPing for a decade and criminal/low-class RPers in EVERY universe do it all the time. I just don't care to do it myself. You cannot deny that it does bother some readers and take them out of the scene, because it is an overt and blunt method. (the same goes for curse words. That's an area that I'm of the opposite mindset for, since I consider inventing new curse words to be more jarring and immersion breaking than using common modern ones).

In general, syntax and word choice tends to be more convincing and memorable. That doesn't mean shortening can't be done, but it is a more heavyhanded method that will rub some people the wrong way. YMMV.

But back on topic. It isn't godmoding for the reason Ixirar is providing. Copper and Dru didn't read anything people opposing the argument have posted. This person isn't forcing an accent on an area.

I don't know what, exactly, the person was doing. I did read what posters in this thread have said, but I didn't read the original argument between Copper and the individual in question since I personally consider the diaries and general subject matter of this thread rather toxic in general.

What I was specifically saying was that if someone claimed that an accent was for the entire region ("Duskwood's accent is this"), then that would be godmoding. I was making a general remark there.

Amaryl wrote:Dru had the best, i don't speak common very well accent.

Dru's was an example of how the voice can get distinct even with just slightly adjusting the word choice. I wanted her to sound different without making it too overt. The changes were very minimal: namely, she never used contractions and usually used 'be' where you'd normally use 'are'.

As awesome as the 'Choppink Svord' Glovaal style sounds for draenei, it's too overbearing and hammy to be used for anything more than humor.

Sorry for misunderstanding you, Dru! That's a fair point and I agree.

Vaell wrote:This is the most important thing in this whole debate. Coppersocket had a go at him before he even saw him abusing the accent. Sure, if he forced the accent and said others had to have it, it'd be godmoding. But Copper just wanted to update this thread and thought his original post was funny - whereas it was a dick move.

Seems I said I'd stop reading too soon. I'm far too curious about peoples responses to stop reading.

If it is the most important thing in the debate, then why is it you're wrong?
First of all: This wasn't about the accents, it was never about the accents. This was about the claim of that it was from a specific area. You claim I haven't read, yet you seem not to have done much of it yourself.
Second: If a topic isn't enjoyable then why the hell would I write about it? It clearly spawned a interesting topic where people expressed their own thoughts on the subject.
To that end, I feel the post served it's purpose.

Drustai wrote:since I personally consider the diaries and general subject matter of this thread rather toxic in general

Yes, this thread is toxic in nature. It was never intended for serious discussions and was created as a place where I can take the piss on AD, and was later changed to just taking the piss.

That said, I need to think about how and/or if I'm gonna continue this thread. If I am to, then it'll have to be something enjoyable.
On that note, I might have something in mind already. I found by accident a group of people doing plays behind the Cathedral on AD. At first I though it was some wedding, but when I stopped to observe I was pleasantly surprised.
I might make a small post about them and why they choose to take their time to do something like that. Because I feel more people should get in touch with these guys stuff. If anything, as something to at least check out once.

I can't really recall their name off the top of my head, but something with Faire at the end. They're apparently going to preform in Uldum this week so I may be able to get in touch with one of them at that point. May as well try return to what the thread was truly created around, showing off my experiences on AD. I led the thread in the wrong direction after the Goldshire post.

Because after all, I direct if the thread is going to be toxic or not. To which conclusion I can only say that the thread really doesn't need to be as toxic as I've made it. So that, along with a few other things I've learned from this- is something I'll have to work on.

Continue with the thread. Nothing wrong with a little discussion once in a while.

Nothing wrong with a little discussion once in a while.

once in a while

This is the internet... The debates never end.

Coppersocket wrote:I found by accident a group of people doing plays behind the Cathedral on AD. At first I though it was some wedding, but when I stopped to observe I was pleasantly surprised.

I might make a small post about them and why they choose to take their time to do something like that. Because I feel more people should get in touch with these guys stuff. If anything, as something to at least check out once.

I can't really recall their name off the top of my head, but something with Faire at the end.

Fablewind Faire. I saw that too, and even noticed you briefly. I quite enjoy their commitment, but I felt compelled to flee once she started playing an acoustic guitar and singing. Seen enough awful performances like that in real life x.x

Alright, time for a good joke.

Rumors! Rumors, about The Disciples of Light being a "RP Ganking Guild".

I find this rumor funny, but annoying. It's funny, because it's funny. But it's annoying because it just shows how the guilds in question have the skin thickness that rivals sandpaper.

I'm sure people are gonna try rise to the defense and the "hate crowd" will get food from this to try bash DoL. But here we go:

Well, first of all. It'd be, being able to actually GANK the people you choose to attack.
2. Actively disrupt RP events during extended periods of time.

That about covers it really. Now comes the question. Have DoL, or my RBG team done any of this?

In my brief time of pissing around and sometimes attacking Horde on Thursdays, I can likely count the amount of people we've actually been able to kill on my fingers. Why is this? Because we're Always outmanned 3 to 1, but far often even higher than that. We run in and die within a minute without actually having managed to kill anyone. We don't intend to kill anyone either. We just do it for shits and giggles, because it's funny.

Equally. We're not persistent. We come in, we die, we leave. There's been about three instances where we've sticked around, but those times have been due to Orcs of the Red Blade attacking us upon ress or otherwise, so I hardly see how that counts. Even during these times, we're always outnumbered.

This server, is and will hopefully always be- a RP-PVP server. That means that if we choose to simply play the game and look for a bit of WPVP, we're not doing anything wrong. The fact that the only thing we do is waste about 2-5 minutes of your time to get a bit of a kick once a week doesn't make us gankers.
If we were gankers, we'd come at you when you're AFK, we'd come at you in massive numbers or in numbers that atleast allow us to be disruptive.
But from what I can tell, these small events are causing a shitstorm. One I personally find way out of proportions. We're at best, a minor nuisance.

Because, I don't know about you guys. But I haven't forgotten that this game, is infact- a game. I play to enjoy myself, even if that means being in your way for the entirety of the 3 minutes it takes to kill me. If you get butthurt over something so simple, then I can't even phantom how you'd be able to cope with ABOC, if they for some reason decided to go Alliance.

So, if you wish to judge us for arriving at some RP events (which seem to happen quite frequently on Horde anyway), and make people actually play the game for about a minute or so. Then feel free to do so. But you make yourselves look like crying children while doing so.
Because as far as I can see, the only ones really doing the "ganking" here- is the Horde players that we (happily) become free kills for.

But hey, if you can't stand that people that once in a while want to force some WPVP out of you- perhaps you should consider transfering to a calmer server. Cliché line, but none the less true.

(Now, embrace the typical circlejerk that will pop up and try explain why I'm wrong and how butthurt they are.)

Spoiler:

Dude, you have to be trolling. This is too much. Lmfao. Not even going to address all the blatant lies in that post, I can't take it serious enough. This is weak, mate.

Also, Krogon isn't in the Band. Not that it matters.

Cockerfuckit wrote:If we were gankers, we'd come at you when you're AFK

That's exactly what you do. So by your own definition you're gankers. Might want to change that definition.

P.S. I took the liberty of correcting the mistakes in your post (grammatical or otherwise) and highlighting them in red for your convenience. My corrections are entirely objective.

Corrected:

Oh dear.