Is your character open to death?

You son of a....

Raene wrote:
To me, that just seemed childish. Like they'd disliked not being able to immediately gut my character, and so they took their ball and went home. If they are reading this, then you know I am not over it, and nor am I over your appalling behaviour afterwards.

Still, it felt good to get that out.

Right, first off, you emoted that my blade would be stuck and that I'd have difficulties pulling it out. That's what iffed me out enough to provoke the sarcastic emote. It was not a response to how you were wearing armor, it was a response to how _YOU_ emoted that my blade would be partially stuck.

Second, I never intended to kill anybody's character. My character attacked yours to get you to back off his pal. He did not intend to murder anybody. Even before I knew about the barkskin, my intentions was to stab you once to distract you so Cainn could escape. My char also realised that you were two militant night elves with huge fucking spears so staying in range for too long was probably the dumbest thing he could do. I didn't "break character", because my character's reason for attacking you was to get you off Cainn. Which he succeeded in doing.

Third, your character wasn't even my main issue with how that fight played out. As we discussed ingame, my genuine displeasure in the situation was the fact that Arkil could, IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS STAG CHARGE, outmaneuver the blade I stabbed at him while ALSO throwing my character into a wall AND dodging the bullets being shot at him. Now I'm not going to go into a discussion of whether or not this was fair, because I frankly give little fucks about stuff that happened in the past and I decided to just shrug it off as a bad experience.

Finally, my "OOC hissy fit" mostly consisted of asking you why you insisted on yelling at me for not killing your character, with pleads such as "We likely won't RP with each other again, let's agree to disagree and stop this nonsense" and "I honestly don't mind how you choose to RP, we obviously disagree on a very fundamental level, so how about we just go each to our own", ofcourse all futile because as you stated, you "aren't over it" and instead opted to describe to me the superiority of a brickwall's reasoning skills to my own and the quantity of dicks you'd like me to eat.

What apparently came off to you as extreme arrogance and fit-throwing was in fact my attempt to acknowledge the fact that you and I enjoy different kinds of RP and thus letting go of the conflict in a way that allowed both you and Arkil to get away without any lasting IC Consequences, so that nobody would have their characters ruined by our disagreements, along with a genuine wish to limit any butthurt that would inevitably occour as a consequence of this.


Ps, if it wasn't apparent, I'm Phillíp.

Figured it was you getting rage-y over that...

Cid wrote:Figured it was you getting rage-y over that...

Excuse me?

Calm, gents.
Our main issue in The Cartel are the people who fight back when they are surrounded by close to ten people. Irl, even a trained navy seal would bend over, exposing his butt cheeks, if that was what it'd take to stay alive. And we don't even ask you that! All we want is your coin purse, (which is unlikely to contain all of your money at any time) and occasionally your boots.

Another thing we frown upon are certain civilians who walk around in armour in bars or casual evenings. Why? I can understand a guard on patrol wears it, of course, but apart from that there is never a reason to walk in armour in a civil society!
Leather is different. It's supposed to be comfortable and can even be pretty. Plate armour, however comfortable, will always be fucking heavy. And any person's back will begin hurting after having had 20 kg of dead weight pushing on his spine.

Sullee Swiftspeech wrote:Calm, gents.
Our main issue in The Cartel are the people who fight back when they are surrounded by close to ten people. Irl, even a trained navy seal would bend over, exposing his butt cheeks, if that was what it'd take to stay alive. And we don't even ask you that! All we want is your coin purse, (which is unlikely to contain all of your money at any time) and occasionally your boots.

Another thing we frown upon are certain civilians who walk around in armour in bars or casual evenings. Why? I can understand a guard on patrol wears it, of course, but apart from that there is never a reason to walk in armour in a civil society!
Leather is different. It's supposed to be comfortable and can even be pretty. Plate armour, however comfortable, will always be fucking heavy. And any person's back will begin hurting after having had 20 kg of dead weight pushing on his spine.

The last point is completely untrue and a very common misconception.

Secondly if you lived in a city which has as many muggings, cultist attacks, and general violence as Stormwind does Ic, I'm pretty sure you'd start wearing armour fairly often

Thirdly, this might not be your gist, but a lot of Blades tended to wear armour frequently if they are open to taking up jobs (ie; 'on duty' so to speak). This leads to a lot of QQ about WAAH ARMOURED MERCS IN BARS. Well, duh. They operate out of a bar.

I think the fact that all my characters tend to end in death attests to the fact that my characters are open to death more than any collection of words ever could.

Far more interesting to me than something mundane as being open to death is how my characters relate to death. Being a casual killer changes people. It changes your outlook on life. Living in a world at war where you are likely to be killed by anything you deign to look inconspicious changes the way people behave, too. Will your character stay true to his ideals that people are essentially good and worthy of trust (Thelos), or will you discard your ideals and embrace pragmatism, treating every person as your potential killer? (Paozi).

There's been a lot of talk about deaths being meaningful and such; but those talks tend to only focus on the moment of death. Far more meaningful however is how our characters relate to death on a day-by-day basis; particularily because the differences between races on this point are vastly different, with draenei and night elves being very much immortal and humans only having a fleeting life-span in comparison.

Also, characters dying to being killed is relatively easy to role-play out. Why not try having your character die a slow and agonizing death by old age or disease? There is a whole aspect of death, namely, the slow conscious death that role-players oft neglect as a source of inspiration. Knowing his death to be imminent, what will your character leave behind? What is his legacy? Is he fighting with all his might to overcome his predicament and return to health, or has he peacefully accepted his fate? How do other characters react to the imminent death of one of their loved ones? Will they try to find a cure? Will they try to convince the ones who have made peace with death to find a reason to carry on living?

These to me are all much more interesting questions than the very mundane "Is your character open to death?".

Rather, I would like to poise the question: "How do your characters relate to death? What part does death play in your role-play?"

Pao wrote:
Also, characters dying to being killed is relatively easy to role-play out. Why not try having your character die a slow and agonizing death by old age or disease? There is a whole aspect of death, namely, the slow conscious death that role-players oft neglect as a source of inspiration. Knowing his death to be imminent, what will your character leave behind? What is his legacy? Is he fighting with all his might to overcome his predicament and return to health, or has he peacefully accepted his fate? How do other characters react to the imminent death of one of their loved ones? Will they try to find a cure? Will they try to convince the ones who have made peace with death to find a reason to carry on living?

This reminds me of the time that Dahian was plagued and was getting closer and closer to death. JP being JP and not knowing Dahian desperately trying to save the man's life, while Amaryl and Gahalla, beeing torn between mercy and - and hoping for the best (which was bleak at best at that time)

we ended up euthanizing poor Dahian with JP being a "screamy little bitch" about how we shouldn't be able to do that.

For me, that event kinda set up the relationship between Amy and JP for things to come. addtionally it was a great end for Dahian, the mercenary general, turned old and weak, and weaker until he couldn't even stand on a battlefield only to be plagued during a celebratory feast.

Powerful stuff.

Yuh.

My current character is suffering from a fatal heart disease and is very much conscious of it. I like making other characters feel uncomfortable when Paozi reminds them of that fact. It's like your grandmother going "I won't be around for much longer, you know..."

Sometimes it's comedic, sometimes it's dramatic - but it's always proven to be a good way to add another layer of depth to my character. How a character relates to death is one of his most important defining traits. I suggest everybody thinks carefully about this question!

Any other of my characters sure, Feydor; probably not. Mainly because I suck at RP and Feydor is the only character that I feel at this time I'd ever have fun rping. Im more than happy to be the victim of obscene and grotesque injuries, but I try to keep away from situations where death is inevitable *puffs on a cigarette*

I love your post, Pao.

Pao wrote:Rather, I would like to poise the question: "How do your characters relate to death? What part does death play in your role-play?"

A significant part. It's essentially what Drustai's entire character is designed around. Necromancer because of her traumatic experiences with death, not for boring undead armies. She views death as the ultimate evil, the great enemy, beyond even the Legion.

People commonly think that immortal races would not fear death, because they almost never die. I find this to be a false belief. If anything, immortal races would fear it far more because they have never learned to cope with it as shorter lived races have. Death isn't something common or expected, it's a sudden ending to a life that should never have ended. Auchindoun and the Auchenai are a testament to this, showing just how serious the concept of death is among the draenei.

Thus, I treat Drustai's perspective of it as someone who literally is incapable of coping. She's existed for twenty-seven thousand years and has absolutely no idea how to rationalize "non-existence" with existence. Her faith in the Light doesn't help matters, because as an Auchenai she witnessed D'ore's shadow state feasting on the souls of her kin, leading to the belief that "reunion with the Light" means oblivion of the individual identity (which other draenei, like Thelos, believe is a good thing, but that Drustai, in her love of the self, cannot abide). All of that combined with the mass genocide of the draenei race and she just snapped. Turned to necromancy and took up the impossible goal of finding a way to defeat death. While constantly reminding her loved ones that regardless of their personal desires, she will raise them, whether by resurrection or undeath, if they die (See: Thelos). She claims it's to save them, and in part it is, but mostly she is just utterly incapable of coping with loss.

Drustai and Thelos have had some great conversations about the topic, as they're complete opposites of each other. On Dru's side, absolute fear of and defiance against death, and on Thelos' side, willing acceptance of and even desire for death.


Areyah on the other hand is a bit different. She's largely an atheist. She has some leanings with the faith of Anethion, but for the most part focuses on the material rather than the spiritual. Like Dru, she's afraid of death, because she also believes that there is no afterlife. Unlike Dru, Areyah is extremely courageous. 20 Chapterians surround Gwendelyn with weapons drawn? Areyah pushes Gwen behind her and steps between them, fully aware of the fact that she's going to die (and very nearly did). She doesn't want to die, but she will sacrifice herself if it's necessary in the line of duty.

Concerning the disease angle, this is something I love playing out. Areyah is both middle-aged (and thus suffering the pangs of such, including old wounds), and more significantly, has liver disease from her alcoholism. Her being rather fit and athletic means she's managed to stave off the worst effects, but as she gets older and the stress builds it will become more and more apparent (such as her coming down with serious pneumonia after the injuries inflicted on her by the Chapter). She doesn't regularly gloom about it, though. She's stubborn, and far as she's concerned injury, age, and disease are just a distraction from her duty. She tells it to fuck off and "walks it off." But as some people from Wild Tempest know from Paozi's anti-sha training event, it is something she greatly fears at the back of her mind. She's just very, very good at shoving it all under the carpet. Until she gets drunk and the walls come down.

Like Dru, Areyah has issues dealing with loss. But as before, she's good at compartmentalizing and largely buries it behind a tough exterior and her booze.


TBH, death in general is a major facet behind all of my characters, no matter what game I play.

Shaelyssa wrote:
at one point though I was so against poor shaelyssa dying!!! loved playing her and there was this one instance where she was for sure she going to die and I didnt want to her die so I ended up rping elune lol fun fun fun (poor things finally dead now tho rip shae!)

Screenshots please!

For the record, I haven't reported you Ix, although you do have that little red ! next to your post. If any mod is reading this, then the person Ix was talking to has not taken any offense and reasonably he should not have any punishment levied against him imho.

Rather than risk the white knights reporting more posts, I'll not respond to you, so you're not forced to respond to me.

Still, as for the later posts where people start talking about "wearing armour". It's Stormwind, and there's never been a time where Raene has visitted Stormwind and escaped without a wound of some kind. Honestly, without fail, everytime I go there someone is screaming /y GUNSHOT or people are throwing knives about.

Raene wrote:Still, it felt good to get that out.

We discussed this and settled this in whispers, I do not see why you have to take it to the forums and continue this even further when it's already settled. I though better of you.
Disappointed.

Cid wrote:Figured it was you getting rage-y over that...

If you read what he wrote in a rational and sane manner, you'd see that it wasn't rage infused at all.

Kittrina wrote:Thirdly, this might not be your gist, but a lot of Blades tended to wear armour frequently if they are open to taking up jobs (ie; 'on duty' so to speak). This leads to a lot of QQ about WAAH ARMOURED MERCS IN BARS. Well, duh. They operate out of a bar.

This clearly added a lot to the argument. Good one Kitt. /golfclap
(and since when were you mercs? You sure don't act like it.)

In other news, this has deranged the topic, and on the verge of becoming another hate thread.

Let's get back on track shall we?

(But if we must persist on the fighting topic, I may inform you that the Cartel tries to stay out of fighting people since it usually turns like this, a fucking whinefest, not to mention everyone's a fucking white knight so you always get 400000 people against you who got psychic abilities and able to tell the situation directly as they see it, and always caring for -everyone- around them, no matter what. Fucking fearless goodietwoshoes.)

[quote="Coppersocket"]

Raene wrote:

Kittrina wrote:Thirdly, this might not be your gist, but a lot of Blades tended to wear armour frequently if they are open to taking up jobs (ie; 'on duty' so to speak). This leads to a lot of QQ about WAAH ARMOURED MERCS IN BARS. Well, duh. They operate out of a bar.

This clearly added a lot to the argument. Good one Kitt. /golfclap
(and since when were you mercs? You sure don't act like it.)

Oh, the irony. Yes, clearly, providing military services for money is nothing at all like being a mercenary at all. Clearly. The fact they operate out of a bar negates any jobs they do at all.

You know the saddest thing about this community? It's shrinking every day and still people like you insist on pointless bitching and attacking of successful concepts (see also: moaning about the fact Black Hand are still existing and doing what they were meant to). And then we get more 'WHY IS RP DYING?' threads. Protip; at a certain point people stop paying a monthly sub to roleplay when the community is utterly toxic and self-hating. Because screw talking to one another like adults with the same hobby, hey, just stick snarky little shitty insults into tiny text WHILST trying to take the moral high ground, right?

It's part of why I'm taking a break and it's part of why a lot of good rpers and good people have left entirely.

Try playing a mage and watch people QQ when you use spells in Role-Play!

Our main issue in The Cartel are the people who fight back when they are surrounded by close to ten people. Irl, even a trained navy seal would bend over, exposing his butt cheeks, if that was what it'd take to stay alive.

One time I witnessed an MMA fighter beat up 12 people singlehandedly in his drunken rage. So, there are people out there capable of it, and I imagine it even more possible in this fantasy world where we have undead war machines that feed on misery, people that can transform into massive beasts, magi calling down explosions and fire of arcane magic and more. Knowing that the Cartel mainly consists of lowly thugs and commoners I can only believe it even more possible for someone to attack a group of them.

The general "level" of WoW characters is very high, and it's up to each player if he/she wants to be weaker than that. While I must say that I believe my characters (Bar Gorth, he could possibly stand a chance unless a gun got pointed at his exposed head) would either surrender or get beaten down I've absolutely no trouble with people playing powerful characters as long as it's within the boundaries of lore (Not Lich King powerful-like though). It is a fantasy game.

But of course, if it's a situation where the victim is obviously going to be hurt very badly or worse then it's a bit silly to fight back (As an example my Paladin Cenalia recently had a gun pointed at her out of the blue as she went for a walk, and as the assaulter could pull the trigger faster than she could've put up a barrier she was forced to surrender.)

I must say that I'd rather get stabbed than bend over and expose my butt cheeks though, I've too much of a spine for my own good.



Sorry for going off topic, but I felt that I had to express my thoughts on this.

Grufftoof wrote:We do get reports when someone reports. A report report. And we see why/when/what etc. There are a number of people who seem very trigger-happy with the report tool. It's not for spamming. Use it more wisely. For example, the above reported post (Ixirar's "rant") was not worthy of a report.

EDIT: Other posts are getting closer to the bone though. Ditch the drama. Discuss the point of the thread. Axes you may wish to grind can be taken to your local blacksmith or I can lend you a whetstone in game.

Edit 2 for clarity.

Who the fuck reported me. I'm honestly baffled....

@Gor'thrak, I'd like to see an MMA fighter beat down those 12 people when 8 of them carry knives, 3 of them carry swords and the last one has a gun

The person that reported you has been warned to stop mis-using the report tool function.

I'm actually looking into how to disable it for certain members, because frankly I'm tired of facedesking every time I check the report list.

A great man once said to me "Watch out for the small"..
*Looks at Ixirar/Kavalis*
Class: Hunter
Race: Gnome

Well gnomes are really small and seems to have a hot temper to, my teacher was right.

Kittrina wrote:

Sullee Swiftspeech wrote:Calm, gents.
Our main issue in The Cartel are the people who fight back when they are surrounded by close to ten people. Irl, even a trained navy seal would bend over, exposing his butt cheeks, if that was what it'd take to stay alive. And we don't even ask you that! All we want is your coin purse, (which is unlikely to contain all of your money at any time) and occasionally your boots.

Another thing we frown upon are certain civilians who walk around in armour in bars or casual evenings. Why? I can understand a guard on patrol wears it, of course, but apart from that there is never a reason to walk in armour in a civil society!
Leather is different. It's supposed to be comfortable and can even be pretty. Plate armour, however comfortable, will always be fucking heavy. And any person's back will begin hurting after having had 20 kg of dead weight pushing on his spine.

The last point is completely untrue and a very common misconception.

Secondly if you lived in a city which has as many muggings, cultist attacks, and general violence as Stormwind does Ic, I'm pretty sure you'd start wearing armour fairly often

Thirdly, this might not be your gist, but a lot of Blades tended to wear armour frequently if they are open to taking up jobs (ie; 'on duty' so to speak). This leads to a lot of QQ about WAAH ARMOURED MERCS IN BARS. Well, duh. They operate out of a bar.

Well... The armor that the vast majority of knights wore into combat from about 1000 A.D. though 1500 A.D. (when firearms made armor obsolete) was either a chainmail coat or what is now referred to as Plate Mail. The full suit of Plate Armor (all steel plates with a leather backing) was really only worn for jousting tournaments and ceremonial occasions, as it was too bulky and heavy to be useful for combat (either mounted or on foot). In addition, Plate Amor was ridiculously expensive, and far out of reach for any but senior nobility and royalty.

Apologies, I wasn't very clear in my adressing of the problem. I meant plate armor, and this is not a poke at the Blades' specifically; we get knights standing in a corner of The Shady Lady sipping ale too.
Also, chainmail was often worn in combination with leather so when I spoke of leather in my original post I meant a combination of the two. But, people should also acknowledge that chainmail saves mostly from slash wounds. Not stabs.

Gor'Thrak Frosthowl wrote:

Our main issue in The Cartel are the people who fight back when they are surrounded by close to ten people. Irl, even a trained navy seal would bend over, exposing his butt cheeks, if that was what it'd take to stay alive.

One time I witnessed an MMA fighter beat up 12 people singlehandedly in his drunken rage. So, there are people out there capable of it, and I imagine it even more possible in this fantasy world where we have undead war machines that feed on misery, people that can transform into massive beasts, magi calling down explosions and fire of arcane magic and more. Knowing that the Cartel mainly consists of lowly thugs and commoners I can only believe it even more possible for someone to attack a group of them.

The general "level" of WoW characters is very high, and it's up to each player if he/she wants to be weaker than that. While I must say that I believe my characters (Bar Gorth, he could possibly stand a chance unless a gun got pointed at his exposed head) would either surrender or get beaten down I've absolutely no trouble with people playing powerful characters as long as it's within the boundaries of lore (Not Lich King powerful-like though). It is a fantasy game.

But of course, if it's a situation where the victim is obviously going to be hurt very badly or worse then it's a bit silly to fight back (As an example my Paladin Cenalia recently had a gun pointed at her out of the blue as she went for a walk, and as the assaulter could pull the trigger faster than she could've put up a barrier she was forced to surrender.)

I must say that I'd rather get stabbed than bend over and expose my butt cheeks though, I've too much of a spine for my own good.



Sorry for going off topic, but I felt that I had to express my thoughts on this.

We usually have at least one gun pointed at individuals who we suspect to fight back. We were against the use of guns at first, (still don't like it a whole lot-..) but seeing we obviously weren't being seen as a threat by the Bruce Lee's reincarnate, we decided to just condone it.

One big difference--

This isn't medieval Europe. This is Azeroth. Though inspiration is certainly drawn from history, it is far from the same.

On the subject of the weight of armour: in WoW there are minerals that are stronger than steel while being much lighter. An example of this would be saronite, which weights 1/4th of what steel does. And no, saronite doesn't necessarily turn you insane as it can be bended when forged.

Edit: I must stress that this is WoW, a fantasy game, not Sims.

This kind of disagreement is inconsolible.

You see it all the time. There was a period in the history of Argent Dawn where most guilds declined draenei because and I quote: "They didn't fit the setting".

People degree heavily on what the setting should be all like and argue about all imaginable facets of said setting. How powerful should magic be allowed to be? How advanced is the technology allowed to be? How powerful is any individual allowed to be? Can we tolerate aliens? Dinosaurs? Robots? Vampires? Dragons?

Etcetera.

There are so many nuances that it is impossible to get a proper consensus. But in broad strokes, I find that there are two opposite ends of the spectrum (here exeggerated for agumentative and comedic purposes): those who want WoW to be a medieval setting and those who want it to be where magic is extremely rare and any person more powerful than the average citizen even rarer and those that want WoW to be... well, everything - steam-punk gothic high fantasy sci-fi noir, or some other thing. As long as it's awesome and fun.

These two forces - here represented as one side feeling that player characters should be allowed to be powerful, with all the crazy magic this universe has to offer and the other argueing that these kinds of things shouldn't be allowed because they don't fit the setting - are inconsolible.

The only thing you can do when you come into conflict is to be the bigger man and make a temporary concession and accept the other's extremes temporarily while you role-play with him, if only for a little while. If you don't like his style, you won't have to role-play with him again in the future: I doubt role-playing between two extremes is a very enjoyable enteprise for anyone involved anyway.

So yeah. Live and let live. Plurality of style and all.