Re: Anyone interested in trading gold between DB and AD? (Alliance)

by **Ixirar** Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:20 am

Magaskawee/Anaei wrote:Wow, just wow. Logged back in to see how the ol' server was getting on to see this. Lovely when the community backs up your decision to leave it..

You must be new here. Welcome to the internet.

by **Raenmar** Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:33 am

A friend of mine's reaction this thread...

Anyone interested in trading gold between DB and AD? (Alliance) - Page 2 COXJe

Our attitude does us no favours.

Inb4 flaming/lock/deleted/whatever.

by **Vaell** Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:36 am

AD, FUCKKK OFF. I AM PUTTING MY MIDDLE FINGER UP AT THE COMPUTEA

by **Ixirar** Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:46 am

Judging an entire server community from one thread with 2 or 3 angry posters. GG Nazek.

If this community is so god fucking cancerous then why are you hanging around Raenmar?

by **Raenmar** Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:50 am

Judging an entire server community from one thread with 2 or 3 angry posters.

And a fairly wise judgement, considering it's mostly correct.

If this community is so god fucking cancerous then why are you hanging around Raenmar?

I'm not. I only come on DefiasRP to advertise guilds/events, make suggestions which could benefit the community, or to participate in glorious forum drama.

Believe it or not, DefiasRP isn't the RP community. But it claims to be, and so it scares off a lot of people.

by **Ixirar** Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:52 am

Raenmar wrote:
or to participate in glorious forum drama.

by **Gor'Thrak Frosthowl** Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:25 am

This disussion..

Anyone interested in trading gold between DB and AD? (Alliance) - Page 2 Tumblr_lsqeqy6Pfj1qcdxq3

by **Drustai** Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:30 am

Raenmar wrote:
Then stay there.

Lovely attitude. This is clearly why DB is flourishing.

If people want to play on AD then fine. But the moment they start preaching about it being so awesome is the moment I stop giving them a warm welcome. Lexgrad's post was completely unnecessary.

AD has an incredibly huge retard-per-decent person ratio

DB has had people messing with the lore and playing lore-related characters for a long, long time. People don't even say a word against it unless it doesn't suit their needs. We're on a PvP server, yet the majority of the RP community is prejudiced against PvPers, abandon RP and hide in blueshield zones at the first sign of ganking, refuse to make events and even guilds known outside of the niche that is DefiasRP for the fear of being ganked.

I will agree with the first point. Most people know my opinion on those certain people who did that. As for PvP... the RP community is prejudiced against griefers, like many members of ABoC and Mithridatism, that use PvP as a weapon to disrupt RP. Those same griefers disrupt RP even on their own faction. Whereas PvPers that respect the RP community are just fine... members of Dominion were part of the Horde group during the RP-PvP battle on Friday, for example.

That being said, I agree that Alliance side at least tends to be very anti-PvP currently, and this needs to change. It wasn't always like this.

RP outside of Pandaria is barely encouraged by most of the community, despite Pandaria being inaccessible to most people, the fact that RP is there unknowable, and so it really doesn't help the community.

The problem with many of these areas is that they often don't advertise themselves. Bumping a guild thread isn't advertising. I often forget stuff is happening in the north because the northern guilds are often very isolated and I personally rarely see them networking with non-northern guilds. Additionally, you have often been very hostile about people RPing in Pandaria, Raenmar, which doesn't help attract people to your side. That being said, every time someone asks about RP hubs, lately I have been mentioning both Pandaria -and- the north. In fact there are plans to deploy Wild Tempest to Lordaeron following the conclusion of the Jade Fist campaign.

by **Thelos** Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:41 am

You know what?

I've had quite enough of talking about role-playing on a server or trans-server wide scale.

Frankly, I do not know anything about the server as a whole and if you are being honest, neither do you. What you know is what happens around you. That may increase in activity, or decrease. This experiencing of the game does not equal "The Server". Nothing equals "The Server", because it does not exist as such. There's people doing things, that's for sure, and they may do more or less things, but why should this matter? What matters is what you are doing, individuals, and how we are enjoying ourselves. Just enjoy your gametime how you like it with the people you like. Damn the server.

Don't do things because "The Server Demands It!", do them because they're fun. Stop the overly dramatic rhetoric. "The Server" is not a real entity. Something like "The Server is Dying", or "The Community is Bad" are statements with almost no content to them.

Just get out and have fun and stop thinking about the bigger picture.

I see this all the time. People suffer and allow their fun to be spoiled by "what-could-have-beens". "Well, this night is fun, but the server could be better". That kind of thinking won't get you anywhere. Live in the now. Try and actually enjoy yourself rather than to become a slave of some kind of strange constructed behemoth without a face or identity. You'll only be imagining problems where there aren't any.

The Server? I don't know anything about the Server.

Is it good? I don't know. Better than AD? Worse? Don't know, don't care.

Is it dying, or growing? Don't know, don't care.

I am just going to play the game and enjoy myself. "The Server" can go fuck itself. I don't owe shit to "The Server", and it sure as hell doesn't owe me anything.

by **Raenmar** Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:30 am

Really? There have been multiple events held by the North and Gilneas. Nature's Grasp was invited to one of the old Gilnean meetings, and we did a small event with them. We're planning on contacting the Freelancers at some point, and right now we're working with Stromgarde. We're also working on a tavern project. It's all heavily advertised on the realm forums, DefiasRP and ingame, so the opportunity is there, and it's a fairly accessible place for new RPers to get to.

It really can't be that unknown, because we get unguilded RPers passing through regularly, and TGC at least are getting recruits every day. So don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about people not being in the North. Northern RP is pretty much perfect (in my opinion, at least), except for the Frozen Covenant being a bit inactive. And things are growing fast.

But other than the few guilds in the North, EVERYONE is in Pandaria, and Stormwind RP is sometimes even actively discouraged. As I've said before, people get their first impressions of a server from either the realm forum, Stormwind (or Orgrimmar), or the LFRP channel.

Pandaria RP is. as far as I've seen, very rarely mentioned on the realm forum. Stormwind RP is seemingly non-existent, since all the Stormwind guilds were pulled to Pandaria.

Northern RP is an option for military RPers, and the tavern will create a hub for social RPers. Without Northern RP, what would their be? Maybe one or two guilds in Stormwind. If you don't like them, there would only be Pandaria. A lack of options also deters people from coming here.

I've confused myself, but basically what I'm saying is that swarming to Pandaria for no reason other than "it's new", and discouraging people from not coming, is detrimental and stupid. The point in having multiple guilds is that different guilds do different things in different places, is it not?

"The Server" is not a real entity.

Semantics. When people refer to the server, they're referring to the RP community (in this context, at least), which is very real. And if there was no community, there would be no RP.

Just get out and have fun

I do. I'm not complaining. We have plenty of RP in the North. But as a guild leader, I'd like to try to make sure it lasts as long as it can and that it's as enjoyable as it can be. Because I like doing that. It gives me something "constructive" to do. If I was on a perfect RP server (AD!) I'd probably get bored somewhat quickly.

People suffer and allow their fun to be spoiled by "what-could-have-beens". "Well, this night is fun, but the server could be better". That kind of thinking won't get you anywhere.

But that's not how I think. I enjoy my RP. When I'm not RPing, I look at my guild, and at Northern RP, and sometimes at the rest of the community and I think about what could be better, and I try to make it better. Hell, I spend a stupid amount of time working on guild uniforms, recruitment, and the concept as a whole, partly because of the satisfaction of knowing I've improved the guild and (hopefully) made it more enjoyable for our members. It's not like I'm complaining that it isn't good enough. I'm embracing the fact that it could be better and trying to make it better, because that's what I like to do. And, in the end, people will enjoy it more and it will last longer because of that.

People talking about the server as if it's amazing and as if DB is the best, though, do piss me off, because no matter how optimistic you are, it's pretty clear AD has the larger variety and population of RPers. It's even worse when people try to give potential transferrers/rerollers stupid expectations when they'll be very much let down.

But yeah. The community is very much a real entity, and it's something we're all a part of. It'll end a lot quicker if we're bad to it, it'll last a lot longer and be more enjoyable if we're good. Of course not everyone wants to plan events or advertise RP or whatever, but there are little things people can do, and there are big things the whole community can do.

I really don't understand your problem with trying to make RP last longer and just be bigger, Thelos. It's certainly not a bad thing, and it'd be nice in the long run.

by **Drustai** Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:56 am

Raenmar wrote:Really? There have been multiple events held by the North and Gilneas. Nature's Grasp was invited to one of the old Gilnean meetings, and we did a small event with them. We're planning on contacting the Freelancers at some point, and right now we're working with Stromgarde. We're also working on a tavern project. It's all heavily advertised on the realm forums, DefiasRP and ingame, so the opportunity is there, and it's a fairly accessible place for new RPers to get to.

I was more referring to the past. Lately you guys have been advertising more, which is good, and is why I've been pointing to the north lately because now I do know that there is stuff happening up there.

But other than the few guilds in the North, EVERYONE is in Pandaria, and Stormwind RP is sometimes even actively discouraged. As I've said before, people get their first impressions of a server from either the realm forum, Stormwind (or Orgrimmar), or the LFRP channel.

[...]

I've confused myself, but basically what I'm saying is that swarming to Pandaria for no reason other than "it's new", and discouraging people from not coming, is detrimental and stupid. The point in having multiple guilds is that different guilds do different things in different places, is it not?

Staying in Stormwind just because it's traditional isn't good either. IMO it leads to stagnant and frankly bad RP, and I believe that is what was killing RP in the end months of Cata. People are going to Pandaria because that is where the story is right now. Both factions are canonically focused on the continent, and lore there is updating on a regular basis. Whereas the north was a focus during Cataclysm (namely Gilneas), and did itself have a boom period because of that before ABoC wrecked it.

I believe it would be a huge waste to ignore all these amazing new lore developments in favor of rehashing the same old storylines that have been going on for years. It'd be like people RPing in Stormwind during Wrath of the Lich King, completely ignoring Northrend, the Scourge, and the Lich King. That would be hugely disappointing.

People talking about the server as if it's amazing and as if DB is the best, though, do piss me off, because no matter how optimistic you are, it's pretty clear AD has the larger variety and population of RPers. It's even worse when people try to give potential transferrers/rerollers stupid expectations when they'll be very much let down.

If you give people a negative expectation, then they won't even try it. Things were in a bad place during Cataclysm, yes, but they are picking up. Certainly not to AD's numbers, no, but things are improving. And frankly, numbers aren't everything. DB has never matched AD's numbers, that doesn't diminish it as a server.

Regardless, if someone is asking about the server, then it's only logical that you talk about the positive aspects. We won't attract new players to the server if you give them a negative impression. Even if you believe the server is in a bad place (I don't), you're not going to fix things by pushing potential new RPers away with negative comments.

That's why posts like Lexgrad's make me mad. If you're having fun on another server, then great! Good for you! But don't hop over here, talking about how awesome it is over there and how horrible it is here. Not only is it rude, but it can encourage people to transfer, further weakening DB as a server. It's like moving and then burning down the house you used to live in so no one else can live there.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:00 am

Drustai wrote:
Lexgrad wrote:AD is much better than DB at this time, Sorry to say but it is true.

Then stay there.

Edit: I love how this became a dick measuring contest of what realm is better.

If you like one realm then play there, if you like another than play there.

What's so difficult to comprehend?

by **Raenmar** Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:02 am

Staying in Stormwind just because it's traditional isn't good either. IMO it leads to stagnant and frankly bad RP, and I believe that is what was killing RP in the end months of Cata.

Of course, but leaving because it's traditional is worse. There's still RP to be had there, and there are people who like it as a location for RP. And ultimately, regardless of anything else, a lot of the people who come here will base their opinions on the server almost entirely on what they see in Stormwind. I'm not saying it needs to be the central hub of RP, but RP there certainly shouldn't be discouraged.

Both factions are canonically focused on the continent

But as I keep saying, both lorewise and in RP-wise, old storylines still exist, even if the lore on them isn't being worked on. Gilneans still want Gilneas back, the scourge are still active in the Plaguelands, the Forsaken still control Lordaeron, brew their plague, and have enough of a military presence there to pose a threat to the South, so it'd be ridiculous for the ENTIRE Alliance military to go to Pandaria. Hell, there's scourge remnants in Northrend and demon remnants in Outland, and they're both amazing locations with brilliant lore, so it'd be really nice to see them used.

Just because the lore right now is focused on one place doesn't mean RP needs to be. As long as there's the choice to RP in Pandaria, what's the problem with people RPing in other areas and making use of other lore and locations if they enjoy it? It's not like we're ignoring lore. We even have a Pandaren brewmaster who will most likely be one of the co-leaders of the new tavern.

Why must everyone flock to something new if they prefer the older stuff? Old lore is still valid, no worse (ugh.. maybe not better either), and clearly enjoyed, considering the size of the Northern community.

If you give people a negative expectation, then they won't even try it. Things were in a bad place during Cataclysm, yes, but they are picking up. Certainly not to AD's numbers, no, but things are improving. And frankly, numbers aren't everything. DB has never matched AD's numbers, that doesn't diminish it as a server.

Regardless, if someone is asking about the server, then it's only logical that you talk about the positive aspects. We won't attract new players to the server if you give them a negative impression. Even if you believe the server is in a bad place (I don't), you're not going to fix things by pushing potential new RPers away with negative comments.

That's why posts like Lexgrad's make me mad. If you're having fun on another server, then great! Good for you! But don't hop over here, talking about how awesome it is over there and how horrible it is here. Not only is it rude, but it can encourage people to transfer, further weakening DB as a server. It's like moving and then burning down the house you used to live in so no one else can live there.

People deserve an honest view of what they're walking into. I'm always entirely honest about the state of DB, and yet some people I talk to still choose to come here. Why? Some people like PvP, some people like more tight-knit communities, some people like the fact that there isn't a guild here so they could start one. Whatever the reason, people will still transfer here.

We could make ourselves look like a shining bastion of RP, and more people might come. But they'd be disappointed, they'd regret choosing DB, and they won't enjoy the game as much as they could. That's not fair.

There ARE ways for the community to grow without manipulating people to come here. Advertising the RP that we do have, starting up more RP initiatives, creating a strong community so people want to stay. And encourage growth in that community to give people more options. Do it all at the right pace, and things will grow, regardless of whether you lie to people or you're entirely honest.

by **Gor'Thrak Frosthowl** Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:14 am

I feel like I'm becoming a bit more stupid each time that I come to check out this topic. And you really should make a separate thread if you want to discuss this.

by Guest Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:49 am

Well, I have the clincher to be honest with you all.

AD IS in fact better, simply because it has Gardson and his legndry wareors

by **Drustai** Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:10 am

Raenmar wrote:
Both factions are canonically focused on the continent

But as I keep saying, both lorewise and in RP-wise, old storylines still exist, even if the lore on them isn't being worked on. Gilneans still want Gilneas back, the scourge are still active in the Plaguelands, the Forsaken still control Lordaeron, brew their plague, and have enough of a military presence there to pose a threat to the South, so it'd be ridiculous for the ENTIRE Alliance military to go to Pandaria. Hell, there's scourge remnants in Northrend and demon remnants in Outland, and they're both amazing locations with brilliant lore, so it'd be really nice to see them used.

I agree with that, and we did use Outland quite a bit a few months ago with the Draenei community. Likewise, we also participated in the northern campaigns. I'm not sure if you were on DB yet, but a little over a year ago, during Cataclysm, there was a week-long campaign, just like the one we're having now in Jade Forest, at Hillsbrad. It was Alliance guilds versus the Horde guilds (primarily the Cult of Shadow). There was also the two-month/three-month long Kalimdor Campaign (and the Barrens Campaign just before it) during the summer of last year.

Stuff like the Jade Fist are not uncommon for Defias Brotherhood. In fact they're one of the things I love most about the server... getting everyone united, Alliance and Horde guilds, to face off against each other. Sure, it leaves Stormwind abandoned for a bit... but seeing as Stormwind is where 99% of Alliance RP is the rest of the year, I personally don't care much.

Just because the lore right now is focused on one place doesn't mean RP needs to be. As long as there's the choice to RP in Pandaria, what's the problem with people RPing in other areas and making use of other lore and locations if they enjoy it? It's not like we're ignoring lore. We even have a Pandaren brewmaster who will most likely be one of the co-leaders of the new tavern.

Why must everyone flock to something new if they prefer the older stuff? Old lore is still valid, no worse (ugh.. maybe not better either), and clearly enjoyed, considering the size of the Northern community.

It's because that's where the campaign is currently. Campaigns typically grab the whole community for a few weeks, before people split back to their separate ways. The Pandarian activity is not permanent.

People deserve an honest view of what they're walking into. I'm always entirely honest about the state of DB, and yet some people I talk to still choose to come here. Why? Some people like PvP, some people like more tight-knit communities, some people like the fact that there isn't a guild here so they could start one. Whatever the reason, people will still transfer here.

We could make ourselves look like a shining bastion of RP, and more people might come. But they'd be disappointed, they'd regret choosing DB, and they won't enjoy the game as much as they could. That's not fair.

There ARE ways for the community to grow without manipulating people to come here. Advertising the RP that we do have, starting up more RP initiatives, creating a strong community so people want to stay. And encourage growth in that community to give people more options. Do it all at the right pace, and things will grow, regardless of whether you lie to people or you're entirely honest.

Honest doesn't have to mean negative. Nor does talking about the positives mean you have to lie. You can focus on the positives while still being honest. I personally have a positive view of RP on DB. Yes, there are negatives, and it's fine to mention those, but I'm personally going to focus on talking about the positives, because those are what make me want to stay here and what would make a new player want to try it out.

by **Coppersocket** Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:45 am

Do not forget all the WPVP we had over Arathi Highlands. We fought there for months over trading routes.

Cenalia/Gor'Thrak wrote:I feel like I'm becoming a bit more stupid each time that I come to check out this topic. And you really should make a separate thread if you want to discuss this.

by **siegmund** Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:22 am

Woah dudes, that's some wall of text.

Belive it or not a few newer members of the freelancers reroled from other realms, some even from AD, and yesterday some had some random rp in the inn and keep.

But i'm a lazy man, i won't make a wall of text since i know Raenmar enough to see where this post is going (Plus i'm not good at argumenting, especially in english).

Instead i'll just /yawn and think about doing some kind of "RP lesson" in SW some of these days... Of course i got to read up, make some macros. So some help would be apreciated, well going to go read on on some guides and think on how i'll aproach this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On topic:
Well good for you that you found a person, i just have a lvl 12 there and know no one, good luck with the money trading. o/

by **Raenmar** Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:17 am

Belive it or not a few newer members of the freelancers reroled from other realms, some even from AD,

I've never said that people don't come from other realms. Most other RP realms are dead, so people either come to DB or AD. As for people coming from AD to DB, I had two friends planning on doing that. Doesn't mean it happens often. Even if it does, that doesn't make DB the mighty grand superior bastion of RP that people try to make out like it is just to lure people in.

yesterday some had some random rp in the inn and keep.

And I'm not saying there's no RP in Stormwind. But RP in Stormwind is actively discouraged, which is detrimental to the community.

Do not forget all the WPVP we had over Arathi Highlands. We fought there for months over trading routes.

Are you trying to make the point that DB is currently sprawlingly active and the RPer's paradise by bringing up a WPvP campaign that doesn't exist anymore? Or what?

Honest doesn't have to mean negative. Nor does talking about the positives mean you have to lie. You can focus on the positives while still being honest. I personally have a positive view of RP on DB. Yes, there are negatives, and it's fine to mention those, but I'm personally going to focus on talking about the positives, because those are what make me want to stay here and what would make a new player want to try it out.

I just consider an honest view a balanced one. Not making mention of the flaws, in my opinion, is dishonest.

I feel like I'm becoming a bit more stupid each time that I come to check out this topic.

If reading a normal, completely reasoned discussion makes you feel stupid, then you, sir, have a problem.

Really, why the immense butthurt over any discussion relating to the community, the server, or any other server? It's pathetic. I apologize deeply for not being an unreasonable, blindly optimistic retard and for DARING TO COMPARE AN INFERIOR SERVER TO THE MIGHTY DEFIAS BROTHERHOOD.

Anyone interested in trading gold between DB and AD? (Alliance) - Page 2 Kim-jong-il_796226c

Anyone interested in trading gold between DB and AD? (Alliance) - Page 2 Kim-jong-il_796226c

Also

Of course i got to read up, make some macros. So some help would be apreciated, well going to go read on on some guides and think on how i'll aproach this.

I don't know if you hate me Sieg, or if you just think I'm a pessimistic bellend or what, but I can help out if you want ;D

by **Thelos** Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:02 am

Raenmar wrote:
I really don't understand your problem with trying to make RP last longer and just be bigger, Thelos. It's certainly not a bad thing, and it'd be nice in the long run.

My problem is that it makes you sad, angry and unhappy. I can't imagine it's very fun being angry all the time.

by **siegmund** Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:41 am

Raenmar wrote:
Of course i got to read up, make some macros. So some help would be apreciated, well going to go read on on some guides and think on how i'll aproach this.

I don't know if you hate me Sieg, or if you just think I'm a pessimistic bellend or what, but I can help out if you want ;D

Help if apreciated from anyone, even... Yes you.

Answer to your questions specifically.

Nope. Probably you're higher on my list then Dec/Tuo. Yes help would be nice, whisp me ingame or something.

It's just that sometimes i don't care yet other times i feel like you're dumping sad puppies and kittens out of a bag into a shredder and then serving me that as cereal with a grumpy and sad look. And i'm not sure if i should feel sorry for you or just jump into the shredder too. (What Paozi stated above is kinda related)

by **Ixirar** Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:48 am

Really, why the immense butthurt over any discussion relating to the community, the server, or any other server? It's pathetic. I apologize deeply for not being an unreasonable, blindly optimistic retard and for DARING TO COMPARE AN INFERIOR SERVER TO THE MIGHTY DEFIAS BROTHERHOOD.

Anyone interested in trading gold between DB and AD? (Alliance) - Page 2 Tumblr_m96qikFvMa1qlydob

by **Tuomas/Decurius** Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:14 am

My not-so-few worrds on the matter:
I’ve played on DB for a year, and on AD for a few months, by now. In the second case, enough to see that the whole ‘lololol AD is full of lollers’ and lololol AD is full of bullshit’ is quite undeserved. Considering that it is the hugest EU rp server I would have been surprised I didn’t find any loller/bullshit, and I was pleasantly surprised finding out that both things were present in a considerably ignorable way.

About quality vs. quantity. It is my opinion that quality can’t exist without quantity. In the moment in which a capital(can be Stormwind, can be Darnassus, or whatever other racial capital) looks and feels empty, then the immersion as rper is ruined. Doesn’t matter if I am there for five minutes to do my fishing and cooking dailies, or if I am there for the evening looking for some random/social rp: if it feels empty, ruins immersion. On a side: there does not exist bad rp: exists only rp which entertains and rp which doesn’t. (Lore-breaking rp tends not to entertain for the simple reason it breaks expectations, on both IC and OOC level). As long as the people involved in the rp are entertained, it’s fine. Immersion is integral part of rp, especially in wow rp.

In the moment in which the lack of rpers ruins that immersion, quality forcefully drops. It’s the lack of quantity which lead us in the Campaign to agree on not engage in random fightings during it(aside the poor levelers caught by our lovely dwarves). Not stating that the Campaign hasn’t been great, but I can’t help but wonder: what if Horde had more numbers? What if the Ebon Knights had a proper organization to refer to? What if the draenei could’ve participated in an ordered and militarized fashion? How comes that the only night elf guild hasn’t numbers to spare to be there at least with one representative every day, showing that the elves are interested in the fate of the Alliance, as night elves, and not members of other organizations? All these questions, which Paozi would just throw out to ‘enjoy what we have’ are instead the salt of the whole matter: the Campaign has been great, with great adventures, fighting and IC drama. But its quality could have been way greater if there were more rpers, and more varied rpers. (Okay, my PC and Dru’s would have probably exploded during the fights, but that’s another matter)

Though I told that I’d have stayed in AD, I’m still on a 50-50 regime with DB. The Campaign in particular made me stay, and that’s for the simple reason I -love- great events with many people. That lured me back, and I’m happy I’ve participated so far. What I do know though is that, while we were busy in Pandaria, the rest of the world, with maybe the exception of the North, felt empty, and was empty, rp-wise. And that’s detrimental to the rp, the immersion and the quality of the rp of the other players who, for a reason or another, weren’t involved. My dream(which is not a behemoth) is that one day again I could roll on DB a new single char and find rp everywhere, and no need to roll alts to find some. I know it can be done, why should I stop dreaming?

IT: I have some gold on my DK there, in case you don't get the money you need, make a whisper to Decurius.

by **Swan Emperor Arenfel** Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:32 am

This started as somebody looking for help to buy their friend a Christmas present over Warcraft, I've went to bed - slept - woke up and you're still all going about like raging bulls the next day. STOP.

by **Thelos** Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:37 am

Arenfel/Mikhael wrote:This started as somebody looking for help to buy their friend a Christmas present over Warcraft, I've went to bed - slept - woke up and you're still all going about like raging bulls the next day. STOP.

Threads are flexible, they often move from one point to the next. I do believe the original point has already been settled, as multiple people have already offered their help, so we might as well discuss something that people are obviously anxious to discuss. Better to get it out of your systems.

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