Comic books: Because women are sexual objects in these too!

I know the dangers of censorship, we all do.

I'm just calling for a bit more awareness, from the Artists and the Writers to realise what effect they have by posting such fantastical beautiful characters.

I would never call for a complete ban or even a control of how women are portrayed in comic books, y'know it's a free world: mostly.

It's just disappointing to see so much skill from Illustrators wasted on carbon-copied model villains and heroes, with more of a variety in frame you could really enhance the narrative and also educate people that there is more kinds of beautiful other then sexy!

Sanara: Jealousy? Of what? And fair play on the comment of them lacking skill, yes. But making a panel interesting by making it sexual; for no valid plot reason. Is cheap.

Only nerds read comics anyway so why does it matter?

Also I'm not condoning Actresses and Models being photo-shopped, push-up bras.. whatever.


NEWSFLASH111!!11one!!
Doesn't make it okay for DC comics to be fapping out these abominations.

Vec wrote:
And fair play on the comment of them lacking skill, yes. But making a panel interesting by making it sexual; for no valid plot reason. Is cheap.

Actually, no. This assumes that everything in the comic somehow has to relate to the plot, or even that the plot is the be-all-end-all good which everything must serve. If a comic is trying to be sexy and arouse people, and if it works, then it's a good comic, because it succeeds in what it tries to do.

Whether that's a cheap goal/intention is another argument all together.

Well if your buying a DC comic for the sake of getting your groove on, your either buying the wrong type of comic or clearly don't have an internet connection.

Or at least, that's how I feel it should be. Personally.

Vec wrote:Well if your buying a DC comic for the sake of getting your groove on, your either buying the wrong type of comic or clearly don't have an internet connection.

Or at least, that's how I feel it should be. Personally.

There's both suppliers and demanders that disagree with you. So I guess that makes it a bit of a moot argument.

I could go into paragraphs on this, but to save the hassle; there are -plenty- of comics that have realistic women in them. But going to mainstream superhero comics for that is like going to McDonalds for steak .

Money isn't always the answer! Spiritual enlightenment, you should know this Thelos! Fssh!

Yes, I know can't argue with success, but ethical business isn't completely alien y'know. Corporations don't have to be utterly heartless, especially ones like Marvel and DC comics that are about telling a story, offering a narrative!

This thread also reminds me of that one time I read about a tribe somewhere that counts the beauty of a woman in her number of chins.

InB4
The sensual adventures of chinette.

Vec wrote:t's just disappointing to see so much skill from Illustrators wasted on carbon-copied model villains and heroes, with more of a variety in frame you could really enhance the narrative and also educate people that there is more kinds of beautiful other then sexy!

If that's the mindset you have, then set up to it. Stop viewing certain carbon-copies as okay and other carbon-copies as not okay. You want variety, then ask for actual variety. Characters that don't wear skintight leotards and high heels, characters without toned bodies/perfect asses, older characters, and any other kind of non-sexually-objectified character.

Characters do not have to be sexy and attractive to be good characters.

That's exactly my point I've been trying to make Drustai.

Now women start nagging about the fact they have boobs?

Vec wrote:That's exactly my point I've been trying to make Drustai.

Do you mean this point?

Drustai wrote:

Characters do not have to be sexy and attractive to be good characters.

Because nobody, I repeat, nobody, has actually argued against this in this thread.

It's pretty safe to assume that everybody on this forum agrees with this statement.

We all argued about different things.

Sanara for example argued that sexy characters need to be sexy in order to be sexy. That's not the same as saying good characters need to be sexy in order to be good, because there is obviously more to being good than being sexy.

Thelos wrote:Oh by the way, an interesting side note that totally strengthens the comparison between Greek Heroism and Comic Books:

There is actually a tradition of AchillesXPatrocles slashfics. No really. Poems have been written to argue that they were totally gay for eachother. Actual ancient fan fiction.

And yes, it is as bas as you think.

Reading the illiad again atm Thelos! Achilles is the best written char ever.

Lexgrad wrote:

Thelos wrote:Oh by the way, an interesting side note that totally strengthens the comparison between Greek Heroism and Comic Books:

There is actually a tradition of AchillesXPatrocles slashfics. No really. Poems have been written to argue that they were totally gay for eachother. Actual ancient fan fiction.

And yes, it is as bas as you think.

Reading the illiad again atm Thelos! Achilles is the best written char ever.

You know what, Lex?

I might actually agree with that.

Thelos wrote:

Sanara for example argued that sexy characters need to be sexy in order to be sexy. That's not the same as saying good characters need to be sexy in order to be good

I don't know, I think Pilot from FarScape is the sexiest AND best character in that series.



Awww yeah.

My critsism on Sanara's point was more the fact she said it isn't cheap for an artist to sexualise a panel, it just makes them a bad artist.

Which I personally disagree with because from an illustration point of view, it's a lot harder to make a pose interesting if you don't flash some arse. But if you do, it just looks out of place... yeah people we'll look at it, but for all the wrong reasons.

Spoiler:

You have extaordinary tastes, Sanara.

Or should I say...

Extraterrestial?

Bow-chica-wow-wow.

Vec - So a good artist is somebody who does hard things instead of easy things?

Art really is something I will never understand.

Faralan wrote:Only nerds read comics anyway so why does it matter?

Probably some truth to this. Then again, if you're not reading books to "expand your mind", but for pleasure, that's probably nerdier than reading comics since they take more effort to read. Of course this doesn't really matter since we're discussing outdated stereotypes.

Admittedly when I first glanced at the thread title and opened the thread I kinda hoped it was just a general thread about comics. I don't really read comics at all but I like a few things, like the really dark/noir batman comics are really good. Today I found a comic called Crossed, it's pretty good if you don't mind gore etc. It's like a zombie outbreak, but instead of dead people becoming undead, it's more of a virus that makes people crazy, dismembering and fucking anything that lives. It focuses on the survivors like in the usual zombie theme.

Sorry if this derails too much (( On topic: Boobs are like islands.

Thelos wrote: Vec - So a good artist is somebody who does hard things instead of easy things?

Art really is something I will never understand.

It's lazy to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Well.. no, Thelos. But y'know a bit of integrity in your art. It's kind of like selling out, if it was one or two ass shots! then y'know fair play, but it's particularly bad in recent years.

If it was a pornographic comic, I would have a different opinion! go for it! ass everywhere, it's why you'd buy it! But fan-servicing is cheap and makes me feel like the artist is just selling out! In more story based comics.

Perhaps it's my snobbery.

Drustai wrote:

Thelos wrote: Vec - So a good artist is somebody who does hard things instead of easy things?

Art really is something I will never understand.

It's lazy to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Laziness is rational!

Again, Art is something I apperantly will never understand, but that's a discussion for another time.

Just because beautiful and well-crafted things are often hard to make, doesn't follow that things that are hard to make are immediatly guaranteed to look beautiful and well-crafted. That's just the point I was trying to make here, Dru,

Vec wrote:Perhaps it's my snobbery.

You'd have to have endured a particularily long and painful discussion between me and Drustai about Pandaria to to understand why I'm laughing really hard at this xD.

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:This thread also reminds me of that one time I read about a tribe somewhere that counts the beauty of a woman in her number of chins.

The things you can write about beauty. In short beauty is what the culture wants it to be where as attraction... we will come to that..... Look at old paintings, they are not beautiful women to our eyes yet the artists will have seleccted them for their beauty (Yes not in all cases but you know what i mean.)) Beautiful people are the sucessful ones or ones with assets the culture prizes.

There are tails of communist russian peasents who all tried to marry the large woman for her strong bones, in my time i know that where once it was legs arse or tits it is now just tits. In time past it was ankles. Yet these are not beauty things and are far more interesting to us as the horny beasts we are than meer beauty.. but why...

Well when you look at a womans breasts/arse/legs/ankles/nose... like her ears or wrist or shape of her back you think this is because you are attracted to her, yet it is all womens breasts/arse/legs/ankles/nose of that shape you like. The same is true the otherway around, Women express attraction not to the mind but to body shape, big thighs, tall, hair colour. The mind blowing thing is you like what you do not for an arbitary reason but because your body and mind are saying they are the things I want my kids to have. Attraction is natures way of selecting building materials. You like long legs for you want your children to have long legs. You do not think it, it is primal.

With that in mind, back to beauty! It plays a part in what the mind chooses is attractive. Like the russian and his big girl, or the Girl liking tall men, the body wants its offspring to have the best traits to cope with the enviroment. In our case it is the image of thin and tall, blond page three/movie star. They are the most sucessful of the kind and it is that we want for our children.

Join us next time where we discuss fetish and love