(A) Council of the North

Happening tommorow, any northerners be welcome.

A slightly casual first meeting, but other than that Northern RP looks promising, and there was an epic after-event between the guilds

Amazing first council event <3 Northern RP > all.

Hope people will spend their time around Hearthglen. Fortnightly events will be great, but some daily random RP would really be awesome.

Sounds good. Good luck with the northern rp, hope it goes well!

My new DK char was down in SW, went well but hey might once check up now that i have a char that has reason to go up there.

Raenmar wrote:Amazing first council event <3 Northern RP > all.

Hope people will spend their time around Hearthglen. Fortnightly events will be great, but some daily random RP would really be awesome.

Why is the Northern ALLIANCE spending time around a neutral zone? Shouldn't you be in Aerie Peak or Stromgarde? Please clarify.

Because a neutral zone is safe from attack, and it's a perfect place to move out from to reach a number of targets. We're also in scourge land, so an alliance with the local neutral scourge-fighting crusaders will stop us getting fucked up by scourge while we fight Horde.

Stromgarde belongs to the Arathorians and they probably wouldn't like us using their kingdom while they're sitting in Stormwind.

Aerie Peak would be a decent location, but Hearthglen is safer and is good for diplomatic relations and striking the Horde from the sides.

Raenmar wrote:Because a neutral zone is safe from attack, and it's a perfect place to move out from to reach a number of targets. We're also in scourge land, so an alliance with the local neutral scourge-fighting crusaders will stop us getting fucked up by scourge while we fight Horde.

Stromgarde belongs to the Arathorians and they probably wouldn't like us using their kingdom while they're sitting in Stormwind.

Aerie Peak would be a decent location, but Hearthglen is safer and is good for diplomatic relations and striking the Horde from the sides.

The Argent Crusade would not allow you to use it as a base of operations if you are going to be "striking the Horde" from it. You're a belligerent force, if they start providing aid and comfort to you while you're attacking another belligerent force, it would make them look like they're taking a side.

Neutral zones are only safe from attack so long as they remain neutral. When a neutral force starts allowing one side to use it as a base, then it stops being a neutral zone.

Drustai wrote:

Raenmar wrote:Because a neutral zone is safe from attack, and it's a perfect place to move out from to reach a number of targets. We're also in scourge land, so an alliance with the local neutral scourge-fighting crusaders will stop us getting fucked up by scourge while we fight Horde.

Stromgarde belongs to the Arathorians and they probably wouldn't like us using their kingdom while they're sitting in Stormwind.

Aerie Peak would be a decent location, but Hearthglen is safer and is good for diplomatic relations and striking the Horde from the sides.

The Argent Crusade would not allow you to use it as a base of operations if you are going to be "striking the Horde" from it. You're a belligerent force, if they start providing aid and comfort to you while you're attacking another belligerent force, it would make them look like they're taking a side.

Neutral zones are only safe from attack so long as they remain neutral. When a neutral force starts allowing one side to use it as a base, then it stops being a neutral zone.

Unless of course, you had a superior force to them. If this is the case, I suggest having Argent Crusader rpers arguing and creating friction in the town. It would make for great RP. They want to remain neutral but to try and kick you out would start a fight that they would possibly lose. I wish we had the manpower for these things

Hearthglen isn't being used as a "base", and neither was any horde and alliance conflict discussed there, it was merely an introductionary meeting, the council is for the alliance in the north, but the crusade guilds have been invited to represent themselves because of the scourge threat for us all, making it clear they are neutral of course!
The only reason The Lordaeron Alliance was there was because we were already in conflict with the scourge and was kindly invited while we continued to do so, so i hope that clears any concerns up, the argent crusade is merely being represented. Next shall be held in Ironforge, great showing and interest, hope to see more northerners .

Great introductory meeting, and the following mini-event and RP was fun as well! It was awesome to see so much interest in the Council and northern RP.

Hmm, yeah with the Acherus we were always very neutral in it, we didnt even discuss alliance/horde stuff there. Even though the Shroud was pro-alliance we would not bother horde if they were in Ebon Lands.

Even though you cant RP faction leaders, you can to the extent of their intention. Mograine it is fair to say would not want a band of DKs using the Acherus for pro faction stuff. The same would be true of hearthglen, even more so as the Argents have a lot more rep to lose than the Acherus.

I always enjoyed Irenes Argent priestess who made that neutrality a huge part of her RP.

Raenmar wrote:Because a neutral zone is safe from attack, and it's a perfect place to move out from to reach a number of targets. We're also in scourge land, so an alliance with the local neutral scourge-fighting crusaders will stop us getting fucked up by scourge while we fight Horde.

Stromgarde belongs to the Arathorians and they probably wouldn't like us using their kingdom while they're sitting in Stormwind.

Aerie Peak would be a decent location, but Hearthglen is safer and is good for diplomatic relations and striking the Horde from the sides.

Stromgarde are mostly ruins, the ingame representation, while it's useable. You can simply ask the arathorians if you may use it, since it is still borderlining to the Forsaken.
As you say they're taken refuge in Stormwind, so a diplomatic chat with them maybe can be fruitful?

Theo wrote:Hearthglen isn't being used as a "base", and neither was any horde and alliance conflict discussed there, it was merely an introductionary meeting, the council is for the alliance in the north, but the crusade guilds have been invited to represent themselves because of the scourge threat for us all, making it clear they are neutral of course!
The only reason The Lordaeron Alliance was there was because we were already in conflict with the scourge and was kindly invited while we continued to do so, so i hope that clears any concerns up, the argent crusade is merely being represented. Next shall be held in Ironforge, great showing and interest, hope to see more northerners .

Neither TTH nor Greyford company are neutral to the Horde.

My question really hasn't been answered as to why Hearthglen is being used of all places available up there in the North. Stromgarde is the best place really, as the long-time capital of the human nations and what-not.

Also, I don't think you really need to ask anybody to use any location as nothing to belongs to anybody, and I feel that Kingdom of Stromgardes guild changes specifically outlined their change in behavior towards that general way of "claiming" and acting.

I simply find it silly that Alliance Northern guilds meet in a neutral zone in order to discuss things, the last Northern Council I attended was a discussion in fighting the Horde. Tirion Fordring and the Argent Crusade are neutral factions which do not support either side: That means that you would go plot somewhere else and not inside his fortress which could be seen as possible collaboration with the Alliance and a casus belli for the Forsaken to invade.

Drustai wrote:
Neutral zones are only safe from attack so long as they remain neutral. When a neutral force starts allowing one side to use it as a base, then it stops being a neutral zone.

It's a shame the game mechanics heavily discourage you from playing a neutral character, so that the representation of such forces will always be marginal at best. I can already imagine a paralel case where my humbe little Shado-pan, alone and unloved, would kindly request an entire army if they would please leave and not use the peaceful pandaren village as their staging grounds, only for them to laugh at him and tell him to be on his merry way.

Just so we're in the clear: I am not complaining about this, I think it's actually hilariously fun to role-play out. My point was that, if an Alliance or Horde group of role-players wants to use a neutral town as their staging ground, well, there's little that can be done about it: the town or base will indeed be painted in a certain color, so to speak and lose its neutrality. Ratched is a good example of this. It is pretty much neutral in name only and treated as a Horde base by most players. That's just how it goes. If many Alliance players decide to role-play around Hearthglen, it will become an Alliance base, similar to how Ratched is a Horde base and that's just fine and dandy. I don't like it if players make an appeal to a voiceless NPC organisation to try and wrest people out of their role-play, for example argueing that Tirion wouldn't want them around. Tirion doesn't role-play with us, so he is pretty much irrelevant and I do not care much for what he has to say about anything.

That being said, if any of you bozo try to use the Shado-pan Monestary as your stating grounds, I will chase you off, even if I have to do it myself!

Where was I going with this...? Oh yeah. It would be nice if we were allowed to roll neutral characters, but alas: that's one of those role-player's fancies that are bound to never be realised.

Paozi wrote:

Drustai wrote:
Neutral zones are only safe from attack so long as they remain neutral. When a neutral force starts allowing one side to use it as a base, then it stops being a neutral zone.

It's a shame the game mechanics heavily discourage you from playing a neutral character, so that the representation of such forces will always be marginal at best. I can already imagine a paralel case where my humbe little Shado-pan, alone and unloved, would kindly request an entire army if they would please leave and not use the peaceful pandaren village as their staging grounds, only for them to laugh at him and tell him to be on his merry way.

Just so we're in the clear: I am not complaining about this, I think it's actually hilariously fun to role-play out. My point was that, if an Alliance or Horde group of role-players wants to use a neutral town as their staging ground, well, there's little that can be done about it: the town or base will indeed be painted in a certain color, so to speak and lose its neutrality. Ratched is a good example of this. It is pretty much neutral in name only and treated as a Horde base by most players. That's just how it goes. If many Alliance players decide to role-play around Hearthglen, it will become an Alliance base, similar to how Ratched is a Horde base and that's just fine and dandy. I don't like it if players make an appeal to a voiceless NPC organisation to try and wrest people out of their role-play, for example argueing that Tirion wouldn't want them around. Tirion doesn't role-play with us, so he is pretty much irrelevant and I do not care much for what he has to say about anything.

That being said, if any of you bozo try to use the Shado-pan Monestary as your stating grounds, I will chase you off, even if I have to do it myself!

Where was I going with this...? Oh yeah. It would be nice if we were allowed to roll neutral characters, but alas: that's one of those role-player's fancies that are bound to never be realised.

Except both comparisons are completely irrelevant. Hearthglen is a bastion of Argent Crusade power, the capital of all of their armies, they have the potential to wipe out and halt any defenders, Hearthglen survived the Scourge itself. As we as that, because Ratchet is mostly used by Horde players does NOT make it any bit more lenient to the Horde, it is still neutral, and as long as that is what the lore said's it to be, no amount of horde role-players will change that. The exact same can be said for Hearthglen.

The Argent Crusade is also not a merchant town, the Argent Crusade specializes in collaborating with both factions in order to counter a great threat: The Lich King. Why they would assist one faction over the other makes no sense, they are neutral, not Alliance or Horde. Using Hearthglen as a base to meet to discuss thrashing the Forsaken makes little to no sense.

It's an unstated assumptions from my perspective that the Argent Crusade would NOT be host to such meetings, of course you can disregard that but I feel it is necessary to put it out there while highlighting that two possible alternatives exist. (Aerie Peak was used before, why not anymore?)

Stromgarde is much derived of role-play, why not Stromgarde?

Feels like it's being doing for the sake of being done.

Edit: As I have said however this is merely my humble opinion and can be disregarded, I don't overly care what people do or don't do in the North, but I would like clarification as to why the staging ground for a Northern offensive is being put together in a neutral and strictly non-involved faction.

Torradan Goodwyn wrote:

Theo wrote:Hearthglen isn't being used as a "base", and neither was any horde and alliance conflict discussed there, it was merely an introductionary meeting, the council is for the alliance in the north, but the crusade guilds have been invited to represent themselves because of the scourge threat for us all, making it clear they are neutral of course!
The only reason The Lordaeron Alliance was there was because we were already in conflict with the scourge and was kindly invited while we continued to do so, so i hope that clears any concerns up, the argent crusade is merely being represented. Next shall be held in Ironforge, great showing and interest, hope to see more northerners .

Neither TTH nor Greyford company are neutral to the Horde.

My question really hasn't been answered as to why Hearthglen is being used of all places available up there in the North. Stromgarde is the best place really, as the long-time capital of the human nations and what-not.

Also, I don't think you really need to ask anybody to use any location as nothing to belongs to anybody, and I feel that Kingdom of Stromgardes guild changes specifically outlined their change in behavior towards that general way of "claiming" and acting.

I simply find it silly that Alliance Northern guilds meet in a neutral zone in order to discuss things, the last Northern Council I attended was a discussion in fighting the Horde. Tirion Fordring and the Argent Crusade are neutral factions which do not support either side: That means that you would go plot somewhere else and not inside his fortress which could be seen as possible collaboration with the Alliance and a casus belli for the Forsaken to invade.

They're still playing the represtantion of Stromgarde/Arathor/Arathi, even if they don't use it, they are still it's people. It would be common courtesy to ask, respect and aknowledgement of what they roleplay.

Something I'm sure you yourself have been wanting when RPing a noble. Aknowledgement.


I really don't see why you're going at these people. Why make it into a debate. Why do they have to answer any questions at all? They choose to use Hearthglen and it works fine. Why dictate their roleplay?
You should encourage RP, not limit it. Especially not since you're not in the north yourself?

I'm just confused.

There are Horde guilds using Hearthglen as their RP base as well, discussing how to best deal with the Alliance (and the threats within the Horde). I.e: neither side is denied entry and sides are not chosen.

In addition Hearthglen is a splendid hub for roleplay, with all Northern RPers having a reason to stay there (in combating the Scourge), and it comes with ample space and great scenery. If we are given such an opportunity, which makes sense from an IC point of view (for now atleast), why would we divide the northern community by sending some of the RPers to Aerie Peak or Strom?

Also defeating the Horde was not discussed in the meeting (aside from fleeting remarks) so you can stop arguing about that. The location of the meeting will be changing, meaning the next one will not be in the Argent Crusade's capital.

And while we're at it, take a look at Chillwind Camp. It was originally set up by the Argent Dawn to combat the Scourge, but has been taken over and is now being used by the Alliance to fight the Forsaken, with apparently the consent of the Crusade as it still remains in the camp.

I'd suggest claiming Heartglen, when you are there, as a random northern fortress.. Because using it as a Alliance base is just not cool.

Where Stromgarde is concerned, I believe a portion of the guild have returned and are currently based there. This happened during the two weeks I was away recently, however, so I'm not absolutely certain.

I assume there was no Arathorian presence at the last meeting, so, if the officers of the guild are still not really around by the time the next rolls round, I'll take my character along.

Neither TTH nor Greyford company are neutral to the Horde.

All guilds present agreed to accept and respect the Argents' neutrality while staying there, and the Argent Crusade made very clear their stance on the Horde.

My question really hasn't been answered as to why Hearthglen is being used of all places available up there in the North.

But it has been answered. Stromgarde is separated by a wall from the rest of the North, and then we'd need to fight our way up through Hillsbrad. It's also, as Erahn said, in ruins. Why would we hold an important and probably well-known meeting in ruins?

Aerie Peak is quite isolated, but a good location. Smaller, less facilities and supplies, but it'd work well.

Hearthglen was chosen instead. It does alternate, so I don't even see the problem. But it has it's advantages. Clear supply lines (because neutral), won't be attacked (actually, the ale was poisoned last night but yeah), it's in the far North. From an OOC point of view, it's a lovely area with great music and scenery, not too far from a mailbox.

It's not -that- much in ruins. It has an intact stronghold and chapel!

Slow down their cow boy. The function of a forum is, secondly I am questioning the event itself, there is no personal vendetta against anybody nor any form of bias, I'm being impartial and questioning the event, not the people behind it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum

is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages

I am merely curious as to why Hearthglen of all places is the location. My only worry for any of this is explained as follows: (I did read all the posts)

tl;dr To use a neutral location sets a certain precedent for follow-up events. On second thought I see nothing wrong with plotting against another faction in a neutral factions zone, in fact it's quite crafty. My biggest worry would be that when this transpires, and if any battle plans come to realization:

Will the RP-PvP event take place close to Argent controlled areas?
Will the Argent zones be treated as "safe zones"?

The second being the biggest worry I'd present as an issue because frankly, if there would be RP-PvP and then a sudden retreat into neutral zones it would simply be quite unrealistic in every single universe and history in space. The Argent Crusade does not take sides until Blizzard said's so, and if there is a sort of event where their lands/fortresses/troops are used to "escape" the Horde then you will have drama.

Neutral factions don't help either side, that's all, a meeting is fine, but massing your armies and then launching out of their land, I don't think so. Just keep it in mind.

That's all I'll say on this matter.

Erahn wrote:It's not -that- much in ruins. It has an intact stronghold and chapel!

And the majority of it is infested with Syndicate and Ogres. (Lol, never ending RP possibilities????)

Stromgarde is a ruin for the better part, the chapel, the catacombs and the walls/gates/bridge are however very nice.

I love Stromgarde personally, it's the best castle in WoW because it's more medieval then cartoony like the rest!

Mad as it may sound, I agree with Torraden.

If I was an argent commander and you came running back to Hearthglen after losing a battle to the Horde... I'd shut and bar the gates to you. Same to the Horde.