Worgen pregnancy

*insert joke about doing it doggystyle*

Interesting points from Gahalla. And pregnancy is one of the things that when RPd can be done very well, like a proper romance, or death. When done badly... well... yeah.

And that link... jeebus and holy hell... but I did wonder... how you found it. Cough up! You're the "friend" aren't you!?

Oh ye of little knowledge, I shall tell you about he who is allknowing, he who is allseeing, he who who can show you the way...

There is this thing, called google.
https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img864/9158/googleknows.jpg

I very much doubt it would be born a worgen, cursed yes. But I imagine a shift wouldn't take place till atleast puberty, They are not animals, they don't have pups or litters. They still retain their humanity. The worgen curse is simply an add-on to that. But, with the lack of lore on it. I reckon you could play around with both outcomes and possibly choose yours based on what form your mothering gilnean keeps the most.

Maybe it's far-fetched.. but doesn't the shape originate from Druids? I mean.. I've seen druids turn into birds but I have yet to see then shit eggs (Would be nifty if you like omelets though).
As such I'd play it out like a Human pregnancy... With maybe a few oddities if you will.

Perhaps the curse could take some time to manifest itself on the baby as well? I doubt you'll be laying down pups and teaching them to fetch before they can say "mama".

I bet you'd have a craving for meat.

Creative freedom is good.

Gahalla wrote:First of all. The worgen are cursed humans. That means this will be a fairly normal human pregnancy. The timespan will be 9 months (ish). The children will be human. No strange mutations, no golden eyes, no pack-mentality.
It is a magic curse, not a change of species. They won't be hybrids, regardless of parentage.

Now, the children might be cursed themselves. Especially if the curse transfers like a bloodborne disease (which is to say through any fluid, such as saliva) whichthe game certainly hints that it is (however this suggests that a worgen father could technically curse his... mate... by impregnating her).
However, if the worgen curse cannot be spread further due to Krennan Aranas potion then the children will naturally not be cursed either (unless it happened prior to the potion). It's a bit tricky since that bit is left unexplained. Can the cured worgen spread the disease or can they not?

If we go with the hypothesis that they can. Then as I said, the children will probably be cursed themselves. I doubt they'll be born in their wolf-form, it'd probably manifest itself a couple of months after birth as the bones solidify and the baby develop their own immunesystem.

Here's an interesting question though. If the curse does spread... will the children be feral until administred that potion?

Also, seriously. Don't shorten the pregnancy-time. Humans have so long pregnancies for a reason. We have some of the most advanced systems in the animal kingdom (our brains, our eyes, our sweat-glands and our immunesystem) and those take time to mature. And more importantly... we're big. There's only so fast cells can divide and form the limbs.
If you shorten the time pregnant, not only will the children be much smaller than human children. They'll also be a lot simpler. Less advanced brains, colourblind eyes and so on.
Given that worgen is in fact larger than humans (but otherwise seem to retain all other abilities save for more precise hands) I'd say the pregnancy should even be longer if they are born in wolf-form.

Also, interesting fact. Humans are one of the few species that actually rebuilds itself in preparation for giving birth. That's where most of the pain comes from. Our bodies adjust themselves to handle it.

All of this is of course my opinion. But I see no reason whatsoever that there should be anything special with the children (beyond being cursed themselves)

Having studdied cell and molecular biology at university I fully agree with this point, thow like someone said not all animals follow the trend, as for the curse I would say that the initial cursing would alter the humans dna to the point that it allows both forms, this in turn would translate to the altering of dna of the eggs and seed thus hypotheticaly resulting in feral worgen births or child births that would gradualy develop the worgen abilities.. of corse its likly the child will be quite wild and there would be a much higher instance in the posibility of twins, triplets, etc...

Genetic alteration? I'm not entirely sure I'm buying that. It explains your one kid but it raises more questions than it solves. It's biologically "impossible" to be shape shifting between worgen and human. In wow such things exist through (druidic) magic. As such.. I'd keep it in the realm of magic.
I'd leave such technical details to the "mystery" of the world.

Chareshía wrote:
Having studdied cell and molecular biology at university I fully agree with this point...

So have I. *High fives*

...as for the curse I would say that the initial cursing would alter the humans dna to the point that it allows both forms, this in turn would translate to the altering of dna of the eggs and seed thus hypotheticaly resulting in feral worgen births or child births that would gradualy develop the worgen abilities.. of corse its likly the child will be quite wild and there would be a much higher instance in the posibility of twins, triplets, etc...

Like Jp said, this line of thinking introduces more problems than it solves.

*warning: biomedical jargon follows*

First of all. You suggest that the curse alters the DNA permanentaly in the eggs. But the progenitorcells of the eggs are formed during the migration of the gonads in the third trimester. Every woman is born with every egg she will always have (twice the number actually, one is sacreficed for every one that matures). If these cells are changed permanentaly... why not the hematopoiesis, the skin, the intestinal lining? Why can you revert back and forth to those? Since the DNA provides the blueprint for the proteins, which make up the traits, which constitute your appearance this means that the original DNA is at the very least still available.

If we go by the hypothesis that the eggs, for whatever reason, are the only cells (or among the few) to permanentaly change then we hit problem number two. NK-cells. The worgen's NK cells will be primed since a long time ago and will be circulating in the blood and tissues looking for any cell they don't recognice, suh as these new permanentaly changed egg-cells.
Basically... unless all NK-cells are killed (and replaced post-curse, which leaves us with a 4-week window of no cancer-defense) they will hunt down and kill these altered cells. How will they know? They'll simply analyse the protein-fragments presented on the Histocompatability Complex type I, which just grabs random proteins produced in the cells (out of the DNA blueprint). If they don't recognise it (ie. wasn't in the body during the first weeks of life) they kill it.

Problem three: Compatability.
Human and wolves have identical DNA to about 95 % (150 million basepairs). Humans and chimpanzees have identical DNA to 99 % (32 million baspairs). We can't have children with either. Worgen are very wolf-like (if cartoonised). This suggests that the worgen at least have some in common with wolves, which leaves us with the problem. We cannot produce offspring with our most similar species. How would we ever produce one with one farther apart?

One solution to that would be to propose that the worgen retain all their human kromosoms while adding onto a few worgen ones. The problem comes at cell division. During the final stage of the G2-phase, just before the M-phase begins. The cell counts the number of kromosoms. If it isn't the correct number, 46 (though it's a bit flawed in regards to number 5, 18, 21, X and Y), it will induce self-termination instead. The pups would thus miscarry in the very first cell-divisions (before the night of conception is over).

In summary.
It does not make sense for a permanent change of the egg-cells (a bit more with testes, but not much). That would mean worgen couldn't change back.
The immune-system will kill all changed cells.
Humans and worgen are too different to be compatible.
The built in security-check of cell divisions would prevent an add-on.

Like JP suggests, just say "it's magic". We're going to have to handwave it anyways so we might as well stick to the one we don't have to explain.

The human/worgen incompatibility doesn't really work in "lore". With half trolls, half elves, quarter orc/draenei half humans and such. It appears the only thing needed is the ability to wage war with each other.

Theoretically all those could be closer to one another than humans/chimpanzee though (they do look rather alike too). As you can note: there aren't any half-tauren around. Nor have we actually seen any half-worgen.

Gahalla wrote:Theoretically all those could be closer to one another than humans/chimpanzee though (they do look rather alike too). As you can note: there aren't any half-tauren around. Nor have we actually seen any half-worgen.

The Tauren ARE the halflings... M'pretty sure them hooman farmers have somethin' to do with 'em... *shudders*

Oooh! Ooooh! 46 wheras other great apes have 48 because two of them fused in one of our ancestors, one of the proofs of evolution?! Right?!Right?!

*claps hands in spastic glee at knowing something*

The only part that I don't like about killing genetics entirely is that.. well.. say... you have second or third generation offspring of cross breeds between Worgen and non infected Human. Would it be entirely impossible to say the kids have increased sense of smell and a patches of fur at inconvenient places?

Jeanpierre wrote:The only part that I don't like about killing genetics entirely is that.. well.. say... you have second or third generation offspring of cross breeds between Worgen and non infected Human. Would it be entirely impossible to say the kids have increased sense of smell and a patches of fur at inconvenient places?

That reminds me of the story about the kid with a wolf paw growing out of his cheek.

Anaei/Vezullia wrote:I honestly see it like HIV. Maybe they'll be born with the curse. Maybe not. However they'll be born human with the ability to shift right off the bat. That's just my thoughts considering how the curse works.

^ That.

I don't think this should be over-complicated, especially in a high fantasy setting. It really is an infection, it doesn't alter basic human biology, or magically transform the affected into another species.

I should guess they are delivered after nine months as normal-looking human babies who'll at some point of their lives (maybe right away) begin to shift shapes. There should be a reduced chance the offspring will actually possess the curse if one of the parents is an unaffected human.

Gahalla wrote:Theoretically all those could be closer to one another than humans/chimpanzee though (they do look rather alike too). As you can note: there aren't any half-tauren around. Nor have we actually seen any half-worgen.

Yeah, sure... magically-infused and/or -addicted creatures living several hundreds of years, springing from completely different ancestors than humans, or a species from an entirely different planet being closer to them than chimpanzees who share some 98 percent of their DNA? XD

Don't try to find genetic realism in WoW. There is none.

The curse is spread by blood, a child has the blood of both it's parents and it doesn't take a large amount for the curse to be made apparant. If one parent is cursed, the child will be. I would however -imagine- that the shifting would lay dorment to a given age, puberty, perhaps middle childhood. I can't really picture worgen " children ".

Fair enough. That stands to reason.

hmm good point didnt think of that i tend to remble without thinking sometimes

Sinnadrin wrote:
Yeah, sure... magically-infused and/or -addicted creatures living several hundreds of years, springing from completely different ancestors than humans, or a species from an entirely different planet being closer to them than chimpanzees who share some 98 percent of their DNA? XD

Don't try to find genetic realism in WoW. There is none.

Well if you go by the idea that we're the only possible combination of proteins and traits that can be intelligent it'd work

But yeah, you're right. I was mostly trying to point out that because some half-breeds exist doesn't mean everything can lead to hybrids. Especially not magic induced "species".

I think Emberstone's summary is the best one really

come on, a mule is a hybrid!

But not all mules can have babies.
Can you imagine a WoW were not every race can pork every race to get a new thing.

Hmmm... sorry for bumping this, but come to think of it: will children of two sin'dorei be born with or without the fel taint now the Sunwell is restored? Technically, their parents would still be (altered) quel'dorei or am I saying something outrageously offensive now?

It's apparently going to take a long time to lose the green eyes.