Questions Concerning Worgen
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Questions Concerning Worgen
by Cemdor Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:48 pm
First question:
Before the Cataclysm, Pyrewood Village in Silverpine Forest had NPC's who were Human during the day, and Worgen during the night. They were friendly to Alliance players in Human form, and aggressive to them in their Worgen form. So it's safe to assume they did not do this by choice. I'm wondering what the heck is up with that?
Second question:
Worgen Death Knights' starter quests in Acherus shows they used to be under service of Archmage Arugal. It also says they are Gilneans. This probably means the playable Worgen DK's are from Pyrewood Village. Now what I'm wondering is, how does the playable Worgen not go feral after they are released from the Lich King's control? How can they change between Human form and Worgen form at will when they haven't gone under the Night Elf ritual?
Third question:
Can you make any relation between these two questions to find a common answer?
Feel free to make assumptions and come up with your own answers. But please state if there is any canon information behind your answer, or not.
Before the Cataclysm, Pyrewood Village in Silverpine Forest had NPC's who were Human during the day, and Worgen during the night. They were friendly to Alliance players in Human form, and aggressive to them in their Worgen form. So it's safe to assume they did not do this by choice. I'm wondering what the heck is up with that?
Second question:
Worgen Death Knights' starter quests in Acherus shows they used to be under service of Archmage Arugal. It also says they are Gilneans. This probably means the playable Worgen DK's are from Pyrewood Village. Now what I'm wondering is, how does the playable Worgen not go feral after they are released from the Lich King's control? How can they change between Human form and Worgen form at will when they haven't gone under the Night Elf ritual?
Third question:
Can you make any relation between these two questions to find a common answer?
Feel free to make assumptions and come up with your own answers. But please state if there is any canon information behind your answer, or not.
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Drustai Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:49 am
Djem / Cemdor wrote:Second question:
Worgen Death Knights' starter quests in Acherus shows they used to be under service of Archmage Arugal. It also says they are Gilneans. This probably means the playable Worgen DK's are from Pyrewood Village. Now what I'm wondering is, how does the playable Worgen not go feral after they are released from the Lich King's control? How can they change between Human form and Worgen form at will when they haven't gone under the Night Elf ritual?
When the player death knights are pressed into the service of the Lich King, their minds are flooded with his indomitable will. The mind of a worgen who has not undergone the purification ritual beneath Tal'doren is in a state of constant battle between the wild, animal instincts of the curse and the rational mind of a human. Almost invariably, the curse overwhelms the human mind and renders the worgen little more than a ravenous beast. With the addition of the Lich King's control, however, the instincts of the curse are shattered by his power, leaving the logical, human mind in the service of the Scourge. And with the Lich King's will removed, as was the case with the Knights of the Ebon Blade at Light's Hope Chapel, only the human portions of the mind remain, giving the now free, undead worgen control over its destiny. Similarly, the Forsaken discovered that the Archmage Arugal had access to enchantments that allowed his favored worgen servants- which included Lord Harford- to retain a fair deal of their human intelligence as well. The source of these enchantments remains a mystery to this day, as Arugal took these secrets with him to his grave.
-Ask CDev 3
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Raene Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:51 am
Worgens seem to have been very... Half heartedly shoehorned into lore. Even moreso than Draenei (Edit: That's unfair on Draenei. For every Draenei inconsistensy I find, I find a dozen Worgen ones). For point number one, for all intents and purposes, imagine it never happened, and its been retconned out. That, or you can interpret that they were brainwashed to be infiltration agents for Arugal who seemed normal throughout the day, and turned into Worgen at night by choice/brainwashing. Either works.
Point number 2? They can't... At least, not according to Lore. You're right. This explains it a lot better than I could. Damn timelines muddle everything up... basically, you leave the LK's control after Lights Hope, fight alongside all of your Alliance buddies in the fight against the LK, and then all of your buddies get a severe case of amnesia just in time to forget you, and Worgen, and then learn all about them again in Cata. Technically, Worgens roaming the streets has been a canon thing since WotLK... Whatever.
Still, the 'taint', or the 'curse' of the Worgen wasn't a thing until Cata either, so does that technically mean Worgen DK's are Kaldorei? Or was the curse shoehorned in as well to be old canon lore meaning that when Arugal first messed up, he created a bunch of new Worgen immediately? Even if they weren't, what happened to all the Kaldorei Worgen? Does that mean a Worgen DK can pretend to be a 7'000+ year old Elf who was locked away after succumbing to Goldrinn?
Without getting too bogged down into details, you're a Feral Worgen, taken in by Arugal, tortured for a bit, then released on the Alliance in time for WotLK. The Nelfies won't have performed the ritual on you, because you were in charge of your 'rage', and they won't do it just so you can regain the ability to shift into your Human form you damn dirty undead. Raene occasionally gets a fellow Kaldorei to aid with performing the ritual for outliers of the Worgen populace who escaped the initial ritual, but she wouldn't do it for a DK, nor would many other Elves I suspect.
Point number 2? They can't... At least, not according to Lore. You're right. This explains it a lot better than I could. Damn timelines muddle everything up... basically, you leave the LK's control after Lights Hope, fight alongside all of your Alliance buddies in the fight against the LK, and then all of your buddies get a severe case of amnesia just in time to forget you, and Worgen, and then learn all about them again in Cata. Technically, Worgens roaming the streets has been a canon thing since WotLK... Whatever.
Still, the 'taint', or the 'curse' of the Worgen wasn't a thing until Cata either, so does that technically mean Worgen DK's are Kaldorei? Or was the curse shoehorned in as well to be old canon lore meaning that when Arugal first messed up, he created a bunch of new Worgen immediately? Even if they weren't, what happened to all the Kaldorei Worgen? Does that mean a Worgen DK can pretend to be a 7'000+ year old Elf who was locked away after succumbing to Goldrinn?
Without getting too bogged down into details, you're a Feral Worgen, taken in by Arugal, tortured for a bit, then released on the Alliance in time for WotLK. The Nelfies won't have performed the ritual on you, because you were in charge of your 'rage', and they won't do it just so you can regain the ability to shift into your Human form you damn dirty undead. Raene occasionally gets a fellow Kaldorei to aid with performing the ritual for outliers of the Worgen populace who escaped the initial ritual, but she wouldn't do it for a DK, nor would many other Elves I suspect.
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Drustai Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:03 am
Raene, lore says they can, see my post.
Also, there are a couple of Kal'dorei worgen in-game. The den mother in Felwood, for example.
Arugal's worgen have always used the taint thing, as they've always been more "classical" werewolves than the worgen in other areas. Worgen DKs are Pyrewood residents, which were created by Arugal, and taken by the Scourge at about the same time they unearthed Arugal's corpse. (you could also easily make a case for DKs from the Northrend Wolfcult, too).
Also keep in mind that Arugal first brought the worgen curse to Gilneas while the Wall was being attacked by the Scourge (it was the only thing that kept them from breaking it down and making it into Gilneas). So it's possible the Scourge could have rounded up a few during that time period as well (thus giving us some 2nd generation worgen DKs).
Also, there are a couple of Kal'dorei worgen in-game. The den mother in Felwood, for example.
Arugal's worgen have always used the taint thing, as they've always been more "classical" werewolves than the worgen in other areas. Worgen DKs are Pyrewood residents, which were created by Arugal, and taken by the Scourge at about the same time they unearthed Arugal's corpse. (you could also easily make a case for DKs from the Northrend Wolfcult, too).
Also keep in mind that Arugal first brought the worgen curse to Gilneas while the Wall was being attacked by the Scourge (it was the only thing that kept them from breaking it down and making it into Gilneas). So it's possible the Scourge could have rounded up a few during that time period as well (thus giving us some 2nd generation worgen DKs).
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Raene Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:24 am
the instincts of the curse are shattered by his power, leaving the logical, human mind in the service of the Scourge. And with the Lich King's will removed, as was the case with the Knights of the Ebon Blade at Light's Hope Chapel, only the human portions of the mind remain, giving the now free, undead worgen control over its destiny.
Doubtful that it includes the physical form however. When the LK created the DK's, I don't think he had cosmetic preference in mind when it came to the Worgen, especially when they're badass flesh eating toothy clawed monsters anyway. That's if he even had that power anyway. Hear me out...
I mean, the ritual is the blessing of Druids, who, with the help of some key artifacts (A scythe, provided by a God. I'd suspect Elune > Lich King), render the 'curse' a 'blessing'. Sure, they've freed them from Goldrinns Rage, but they've also imparted a Druidic blessing onto them, something that, in my eyes, would give them that ability to shift forms like any other Druid.
Having that connection to a Demi-God helps alleviate some of the more rigorous requirements of Druidic knowledge, which helps explain that whilst the more nature orientated Harvest Witches are already more in tune with the ebb and flow of nature, Druidism isn't a hard craft for Worgen to pick up and learn if they put their mind to it. They're already connected to one demi-god, who's to say they can't use what they inherently know from being a Worgen, into use by worshipping the other Demi-Gods, and ultimately, becoming in touch with Ysera and the Dream.
What I'm getting at here is that Druidism would play a large part in the Worgen curse. Especially considering that it's Druids who first created the Worgen 7'000 years prior. I don't think the Lich King has that kind of control over nature, to be able to bestow shape shifting powers upon his subjects. Nor would it be a naturally occuring thing for a Worgen to be able to shape shift at will.
In my opinion that is...
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Drustai Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:37 am
Yeah, the shape shifting thing is up in the air.
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Raene Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:40 am
I've still got questions about the old Kaldorei Worgens though... Any information on that Dru?
Cos I've tried, and I just get stumped.
Cos I've tried, and I just get stumped.
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Coppersocket Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:02 am
Kaldorei Worgen were just Druids that went feral from my little knowledge of them.
ie Lost themselves to the animal side.
From what I remember (might remember wrong) they were not the type of Worgen we see in the game, more than likely bears.
ie Lost themselves to the animal side.
From what I remember (might remember wrong) they were not the type of Worgen we see in the game, more than likely bears.
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Drustai Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:20 am
Not all Kaldorei worgen are feral. Alpha Prime was pretty darn sapient, and, like I said, there's a Kal'dorei worgen den mother in Felwood (at the quest hub near the furbolg tunnel), who mentions a bit about her situation I think.
Try doing her quests and seeing what you learn.
Try doing her quests and seeing what you learn.
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Raene Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:49 am
Oh, so at least one survived? Good to know, I thought they all just poofed and disappeared.
I wonder, because I remember reading about Alpha Prime and thinking "Where the hell did he go?". Later on finding a digital copy of Curse of the Worgen and reading through it made me think "What the hell happened to the rest of them?".
Also, bad Dru! Kaldorei, not Kal'dorei!
I wonder, because I remember reading about Alpha Prime and thinking "Where the hell did he go?". Later on finding a digital copy of Curse of the Worgen and reading through it made me think "What the hell happened to the rest of them?".
Also, bad Dru! Kaldorei, not Kal'dorei!
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by siegmund Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:36 am
http://www.wowpedia.org/Denmother_Ulrica This is that worgen i supose. Shame i haven't done this zone with any char since cata.
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Kittrina Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:44 am
Want info on kaldorei worgen?
Here you go!
(It's an in-game item to so...probably the best, most 'canon' source you could ever hope for
and it answers a couple of speculations/incorrect guesses above)
Here you go!
(It's an in-game item to so...probably the best, most 'canon' source you could ever hope for
and it answers a couple of speculations/incorrect guesses above)
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Raene Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:52 am
Yeah, Alpha Prime later goes on to become one of the major players in the Gilnean downfall.
I just didn't think that when he fell, all the other Kaldorei Worgen had fallen too.
I just didn't think that when he fell, all the other Kaldorei Worgen had fallen too.
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by erwtenpeller Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:56 pm
Another commonly accepted term would be Night Elf!Raene wrote:Also, bad Dru! Kaldorei, not Kal'dorei!
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Lexgrad Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:40 pm
erwtenpeller wrote:Another commonly accepted term would be Night Elf!Raene wrote:Also, bad Dru! Kaldorei, not Kal'dorei!
Tree hugging lighties too.
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Re: Questions Concerning Worgen
by Cemdor Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:37 pm
Raene wrote:Worgens seem to have been very... Half heartedly shoehorned into lore. Even moreso than Draenei (Edit: That's unfair on Draenei. For every Draenei inconsistensy I find, I find a dozen Worgen ones). For point number one, for all intents and purposes, imagine it never happened, and its been retconned out. That, or you can interpret that they were brainwashed to be infiltration agents for Arugal who seemed normal throughout the day, and turned into Worgen at night by choice/brainwashing. Either works.
I thought as much. Just bad lore on Blizzard's side.
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