Worgen pregnancy

Considering I have played the last months as a pregnant worgen I figured it would be maybe a good idea to post the ideas and such that we have created upon such happening in the matter.
It is nowhere dictated that worgen should not be able to have children, it is not like they are like the forsaken.

I'm certain many will have different opinions on the matter and this surely is not meant as a literall guideline, it is mostly formed with a good common sense and discussed with several others to make it plausible and realistic.

So here are a few things we have come up with ourselves in the matter:

- worgen remain humans but with a second form which is based alot upon basic and common known wolftraits, the lenght of the pregnancy we decided upon was half of the normal 9 months considering wolves have only a few weeks.

- The mother (if worgen) most likely would experience alot of pain while staying in human form considered that it is most likely not well suited for such pregnancy and the change to the worgenform most dangerous in time for the children in the womb. And with the hormones it would be fairly hard to keep controll of it. Solution and "best" way to go: stay in worgenform for the whole duration.

- The born child/children would most likely be in a worgenform if they are afflicted by the curse (which might not be the case with a human mother) however the change of forms is highly painfull for most and easily trigged by uncontrolled emotions which is -often- for a baby or child. Hence we had thought of the fact that a child has a more easily controlled curse, less volatile and less likely to snap into it untill a certain age. More as a natural protection.

- Myself I have actually decided upon twins because of a possible chance of such considering wolves have litters themselves, not saying one should go for such as worgen but I would guess a heightened chance for twins might be very plausible.

As for other things, I am most curious what people would have to add or comment on this or for future things for children born with the curse. Considering some might be wanting to go down this lane in their rp and having some sort of idea what might make sense and appears logical is probably always welcome.

I still stand by that the are born as human.
And I'd say 6-7 months rather than half. But you already know this since you were the one altering my suggestions. ;p

Well I think if the mother is human I would go for indeed the children to be born as human even if having the curse, but a worgenmother it made more sense to me to have them in the same form as their mother.
And well since I went with twins it aint a big deal to go for a month less since twins are often born much to early ^^

*eyes lifespans* humans and worgen share the same row on http://www.wowpedia.org/Lifespan
*shrug*
who knows, maybe a born worgen takes even longer but has slightly less traumatic shifting, the reason for the longer pregnancy is because the complexity increases vs. a normal human child..

I'm not very much in favor of pregnancy RP in general, seeing as it is often done very clumsily (people getting pregnant, delivering and having a fully grown child within the timespan of a week, for example). But if you really háve to do it, better think it out first, like you obviously are doing.

Another thing worth considering is how independant the cubs/babies would be and how fast, seeing as wolf pups would be able to stand and (wobbly) walk within a day, and eat meat after a few weeks?

I honestly see it like HIV. Maybe they'll be born with the curse. Maybe not. However they'll be born human with the ability to shift right off the bat. That's just my thoughts considering how the curse works.

The curse is passed on by blood, if the mother is human then yes a chance but in my case the mother is a worgen and the blood passed on to the children cursed, seeing as that is how the curse from cured worgen is spread I am somewhat confident in saying they'd be worgen.

I do indeed think things out and am not planning on full grown children, I will rp it as it should be in their growth, perhaps a slightly faster aging at the start such as stated above considering the wolftraits but not going "lol my child is 10" in a few months no :p

I know what you mean about children growing up too fast. Anaei was nearly an example of it until we couldn't take it and had to retcon Saihna's past to make her 40! Although Anaei's son Arador is 3 now in proper time. TIme flies!

I don't believe humans and Worgen can have children together. Why not? Because I don't have any evidence to suggest they can. Worgen and Worgen, almost certainly. Human and Human, yes. Worgen and human? No evidence either way but for the same reasons I don't believe in the flying spaghetti monster or the teapot orbiting the moon I don't believe in cross species breeding unless contradicted by evidence, and even then only in isolated circumstances.

Which brings me onto my next point. I don't believe Gilnean Worgen are both Worgen and Human. I believe they are either or at that specific instance in time. Thus if they copulated (tee hee, got to protect the kids) in worgen form they would have a worgen child, pure worgen (no curse). If they were human at the time they would have a human child. Bear in mind I've no idea what the lore is on my 'theory' because I haven't done the starting zone. My character doesn't know what the Worgen went through in detail and I don't care enough OOC to find out.

What this leaves me with is, I don't believe the worgen 'curse' is hereditory. I'm not sure exactly why, but I don't. I'll 100% for certain, knowing Blizz, be proved wrong one day when the first Me'dan of the Worgen world pops up to SAVE TEH INTERNETZ.

That said..It's lore you might be raping, not anything that matters. Do what makes you happy.

P.S. Where's it stated the undead can't have children? I'm equally sceptical on that point myself but the certainty that it's an impossibility seems to be such a commenly held delusion I feel the need to ask.

And let's be honest, in counter to my point above, if Orcs and Humans can bare children, who aren't even from the same planet, why not two humans who are fortunate enough to be walking around despite having died several years back.

Please don't pull the LACK OF TEH BLUD FLOWS argument. Because last I checked I needed blood flow to overrun Hillsbrad, annihilate the Horde and Alliance armies at the Wrathgate, burn Southshore to the ground etc.

Scrap all that...Suddenly I vaguely remember some Forsaken complaining about it prior to the Val'kyr joining their forces? Anyone got a source?

Maybe the womb is one of the first thing to go, you know, like a male forsakens "5th limb".

*adds point*
Would the developing child be able to survive it's first transformation insides the womb?
Does it transform inside the womb // why not?
What stops it from transforming and clawing it's way out of the mother? <- I believe birth is often said to be traumatic

Also for the lulz http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=7080.0

First of all. The worgen are cursed humans. That means this will be a fairly normal human pregnancy. The timespan will be 9 months (ish). The children will be human. No strange mutations, no golden eyes, no pack-mentality.
It is a magic curse, not a change of species. They won't be hybrids, regardless of parentage.

Now, the children might be cursed themselves. Especially if the curse transfers like a bloodborne disease (which is to say through any fluid, such as saliva) whichthe game certainly hints that it is (however this suggests that a worgen father could technically curse his... mate... by impregnating her).
However, if the worgen curse cannot be spread further due to Krennan Aranas potion then the children will naturally not be cursed either (unless it happened prior to the potion). It's a bit tricky since that bit is left unexplained. Can the cured worgen spread the disease or can they not?

If we go with the hypothesis that they can. Then as I said, the children will probably be cursed themselves. I doubt they'll be born in their wolf-form, it'd probably manifest itself a couple of months after birth as the bones solidify and the baby develop their own immunesystem.

Here's an interesting question though. If the curse does spread... will the children be feral until administred that potion?

Also, seriously. Don't shorten the pregnancy-time. Humans have so long pregnancies for a reason. We have some of the most advanced systems in the animal kingdom (our brains, our eyes, our sweat-glands and our immunesystem) and those take time to mature. And more importantly... we're big. There's only so fast cells can divide and form the limbs.
If you shorten the time pregnant, not only will the children be much smaller than human children. They'll also be a lot simpler. Less advanced brains, colourblind eyes and so on.
Given that worgen is in fact larger than humans (but otherwise seem to retain all other abilities save for more precise hands) I'd say the pregnancy should even be longer if they are born in wolf-form.

Also, interesting fact. Humans are one of the few species that actually rebuilds itself in preparation for giving birth. That's where most of the pain comes from. Our bodies adjust themselves to handle it.

All of this is of course my opinion. But I see no reason whatsoever that there should be anything special with the children (beyond being cursed themselves)

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:

Also for the lulz [url=http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=7080.0

http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=7080.0[/quote[/url]]


They're not roleplaying are they? They're deadly serious? Oh humanity... D:

I'd have to agree with Gahalla.

Indeed. The larger the animal, the longer the pregnancy. Elephants for example... They take forever. Wolves, not so long. 'Cause they're little.

Morinth wrote:Indeed. The larger the animal, the longer the pregnancy. Elephants for example... They take forever. Wolves, not so long. 'Cause they're little.

I believe 22 months.

22 months = forever

No wonder I've not got my customisable dance studio yet...

To be fair everything is assumptions afterall, there is no proof on any of my statements nor is their proof against it, nice to see the discussion going tho.
I have to add that there is no proof -against- crossbreeding either, yes Orcs can impregnante draenei aswell as humans which I think -is- proof from, so two beings both with human origin I do not see why it would not be possible.
I am against several other crossings myself because they'd make no sense.

I'm in agreement with Gahalla, and this seems to be his specialty on the biology front.. So i'll just go with that guideline personally myself. Though there's nothing wrong shifting away from it due to blizzard not being clear on it.

Gahalla wrote:First of all. The worgen are cursed humans. That means this will be a fairly normal human pregnancy. The timespan will be 9 months (ish). The children will be human. No strange mutations, no golden eyes, no pack-mentality.
It is a magic curse, not a change of species. They won't be hybrids, regardless of parentage.

Now, the children might be cursed themselves. Especially if the curse transfers like a bloodborne disease (which is to say through any fluid, such as saliva) whichthe game certainly hints that it is (however this suggests that a worgen father could technically curse his... mate... by impregnating her).
However, if the worgen curse cannot be spread further due to Krennan Aranas potion then the children will naturally not be cursed either (unless it happened prior to the potion). It's a bit tricky since that bit is left unexplained. Can the cured worgen spread the disease or can they not?

If we go with the hypothesis that they can. Then as I said, the children will probably be cursed themselves. I doubt they'll be born in their wolf-form, it'd probably manifest itself a couple of months after birth as the bones solidify and the baby develop their own immunesystem.

Here's an interesting question though. If the curse does spread... will the children be feral until administred that potion?

Also, seriously. Don't shorten the pregnancy-time. Humans have so long pregnancies for a reason. We have some of the most advanced systems in the animal kingdom (our brains, our eyes, our sweat-glands and our immunesystem) and those take time to mature. And more importantly... we're big. There's only so fast cells can divide and form the limbs.
If you shorten the time pregnant, not only will the children be much smaller than human children. They'll also be a lot simpler. Less advanced brains, colourblind eyes and so on.
Given that worgen is in fact larger than humans (but otherwise seem to retain all other abilities save for more precise hands) I'd say the pregnancy should even be longer if they are born in wolf-form.

Also, interesting fact. Humans are one of the few species that actually rebuilds itself in preparation for giving birth. That's where most of the pain comes from. Our bodies adjust themselves to handle it.

All of this is of course my opinion. But I see no reason whatsoever that there should be anything special with the children (beyond being cursed themselves)

Yay I'm not alone about the born human thing. \o/
*Tickles Nilda*

I was going to comment, but ah.. Gahalla said pretty much everything I intended to say, and probably said it in a more concise manner :p

I pretty much agree with what Gahalla said in the first part of his post!

Nilda, I think maybe you should consider what sort of measures your character could take to insure her children won't get infected if you haven't already. The placenta is an amazing organ by the way, a lot of pathogens can't cross the barrier. In most cases, even HIV can't!

But anyways, we don't know the exact nature of the curse, since it might just be ... magical, and not exactly like a virus or a bacteria cell. Or maybe ... it completely rewrites the worgen's DNA and changes them into some sort of trans-species hybrid cyborg?! Basically, it's up to you!

Since transformation are linked to the mental state of the worgen, as far as I know, I don't think the curse, if it's been passed on, will manifest itself until the baby is actually more mature ... maybe around a couple of months or a year old?

And also, the size of an animal doesn't always determine how long the pregnancy'll last! Pandas are (relatively) huge but pregnancy lasts like 3-5 months, I think! The babies end up looking like slimy rat worms though...

As I said I have rp'ed her pregnant for several months already and the births has occured last night ^^ I only just came with the idea of posting this here rather late xD

Just a ponder, because you said "births". Was it a litter of worg-shaped.. babies?

That was honestly a typo xD Nilda has given birth to twins however

Oh erm ... congratulations?

Has Nilda eaten the weaker of the two yet?