Draenei roleplay, Under appreciated?

I've noticed since I joined this server; about a year ago. That alot of the RP is heavily human focused, infact very tunnel visioned towards Human Rp. It's so caught up in infact that we have about a zillion different kingdoms, villages, RP projects in human zones, evil guilds about Cultists, and even -tribes-? I'm not saying for one moment that this is a particularly bad thing: we do have Dwarf, gnome, Night elf and Worgen RP on the go. But what about the Draenei?

There so alien compared to what we consider the norm within Stormwind that many wouldn't hesitate about not including them or simply dismissing them. Now I understand that this can be quite a common trait within human RP, but are we being over zealous? Think of how much wealth of culture and lore ( Yes. I am a fan of the lore. ) the Draenei have, and what events could be held to truely make them stand out uniquely amongst the more mundane races of the Alliance.

Perhaps it's about time we got out of Stormwind and began appreciateing other possiblities within the game. Just my two cents. And yes, I play a male Draenei.

I'm a fan of the fact that there are relatively few Draenei kicking about the place. It's very true to the lore. That said I'mvery fond of what is currently a massive overrepresentation of draenei in my guild at the moment.

I must seem an awful party pooper right now but honestly I want more gnomes and less worgen. Besides that I think the racial balance is excellent.

P.S. Now that I think about it all the draenei in my guild are female...

They're always female. :>

We actually just got two male draenei applications to Ere Argus last week.

I was surprised.


But yes, moar appreciation for draenei RP plx. Most Stormwind events simply do not appeal in any way (at least, don't appeal to the ones that aren't just blue humans). I don't mind being excluded because that's all RP and draenei shouldn't need to hang around SW anyway, I just wish there was more of a draenei community that could stand on its own. And it makes me sad that of those few draenei that do exist, most of them never RP in the Exodar or other draenei locations.

I'm tired and so I'm probably making more of an argument out of this than there actually is. If I am I apologise in advance.

What could be done to broaden the appeal of 'Stormwind' events to the Draenei community?

I don't understand the Draenei's attachment to the Exodar. R2-D2 and C3PO didn't bunk down in the escape pod after they landed on tattooine. At the end of the day the Exodar is a giant sarcophagus in which a great many Draeenei died. Surely it would make more sense for them to find somewhere that isn't ingrained into their psyche as a monument to attempted genocide? For example Stormwind, or more likely Darnassus. Or even Draenor.

Fundamentally I don't completely understand the logic behind the argument that goes something like "Draenei are not to be RP'd as blue humans". Surely a medieval human's personality is as strange to me as an immortal hooved creatures? I mean, I can identify a lot more readily with living forever (especially as a nineteen year old male ) than dying when I'm thirty (overexagerated to enforce the point, life expectancy was not quite that low. At least not in Europe.) praying a couple of the malnourished runts my wife spawned will live long enough to inherit the strip of land my feudal lord so 'kindly' grants me to work in his place. I'm being very objectionable here but I think they're just blue humans with hooves, a tail, horns, and severe sexual dimorphism issues.

Ehm...I hope I've not gone too far off the plot? It's too early to be objective.

to be fair, the escape pod R2-D2 and C3-P0 were in was a little bit smaller... and it wasn't a transdimensional spaceship either..

Well the Draenei community isn't the only one which is rather small.
In the gnomish community all we have at the moment is Tinker Court, and thats seven people on a good day.
Less humans more of the other races! (except for dwarves there are quite a lot of dwarves... and worgen, and due to what i saw at the cultist event there are a lot of nelves aswell.... so yeah)

I think the draenei have three problems really. One is that they are the most alien of all species in the Alliance (they are, in order; human, dwarves/gilneans, elves/gnomes, draenei). Moreover, their alien-ness is very clear and obvious. They look strange and have a strange society. They're not very easy to relate to.

The other problem is that the draenei society is quite... Utopian. There is no conflict and antagonism within it. It's simply... perfect. This puts many people off draenei I think. There's not much room to explore the constraints of that character within draenei society. At best it will be through interaction with the other alliance races that any potential IC drama happens. And then always as the moral highground.

Three. The draenei story arch has ended. All that there is to draw inspiration from is now over.

I think those are essentially the big problems for draenei and why so few roleplayers are attracted to play them.

Also, off topic

...than dying when I'm thirty (overexagerated to enforce the point, life expectancy was not quite that low...

This is a gross misinterpretation of that figure. The life expectancy was low because 1/3 children died before their first year, 1/2 before they were adult and a lot of women died in childbirth.
The survivors lived long healthy lives though (except when hit by one of the big killers). few reached 90, but a lot reached 70. Kind of like today.

I'll have to agree with Gahalla. Draenei are weird. The whole utopian angle is actually more interesting to me than the SFS Human/Dwarf/Elf societies, but it does require more in-depth understanding on the lore both written and, sadly, implied to make a character that's both interesting and works within the established Draenei lore. That's why most "Draenei" characters, well, aren't.

Geneviève wrote:I'm tired and so I'm probably making more of an argument out of this than there actually is. If I am I apologise in advance.

What could be done to broaden the appeal of 'Stormwind' events to the Draenei community?

Things that have a more broad effect. Local SW issues, such as nobles, lords, claims over land and such, are of little importance. Things like healing the land, fighting the Legion, fighting/making peace with the Horde, the Church, arcane research/administration, etc that kind of stuff is going to have more relevance. While draenei can potentially come over and help the humans with some of their issues (me and Exaythe have done that a few times), that tends to depend on the issue being of broader impact (for example, issues between major power blocs during a time of crisis).

I don't understand the Draenei's attachment to the Exodar. R2-D2 and C3PO didn't bunk down in the escape pod after they landed on tattooine. At the end of the day the Exodar is a giant sarcophagus in which a great many Draeenei died. Surely it would make more sense for them to find somewhere that isn't ingrained into their psyche as a monument to attempted genocide? For example Stormwind, or more likely Darnassus. Or even Draenor.

The Exodar, along with Tempest Keep, are ships gifted to them by the Naaru. The same type of ships that they've been traveling on for thousands of years and that saved them from the Legion. It's practically their ark.

Fundamentally I don't completely understand the logic behind the argument that goes something like "Draenei are not to be RP'd as blue humans". Surely a medieval human's personality is as strange to me as an immortal hooved creatures? I mean, I can identify a lot more readily with living forever (especially as a nineteen year old male ) than dying when I'm thirty (overexagerated to enforce the point, life expectancy was not quite that low. At least not in Europe.) praying a couple of the malnourished runts my wife spawned will live long enough to inherit the strip of land my feudal lord so 'kindly' grants me to work in his place. I'm being very objectionable here but I think they're just blue humans with hooves, a tail, horns, and severe sexual dimorphism issues.

Because they're not. They have their own culture and background that is entirely different from humans. The kind of concerns that humans worry themselves with are generally outside the boundaries of what a draenei would think about. The Elwynn stuff for example are things that I don't see any draenei really caring about, such as who owns the land.

Gahalla wrote:The other problem is that the draenei society is quite... Utopian. There is no conflict and antagonism within it. It's simply... perfect. This puts many people off draenei I think. There's not much room to explore the constraints of that character within draenei society. At best it will be through interaction with the other alliance races that any potential IC drama happens. And then always as the moral highground.

This is a bit incorrect. While that is the natural state, that does not mean that characters that go against it are somehow wrong as a rule. What makes it difficult is that going 'against the grain' for draenei culture is much different (and perhaps, quite opposite) of going against the grain in human culture. Whereas someone 'perfect' in human culture is unnatural amongst the rabble of normals, in draenei most are perfect and therefore the deviant is the person who isn't perfect. There is a sense of shame to be different rather than rebellious pride (mostly). Draenei society is a hardcore Lawful Good society, which is very, very hard. There are going to be draenei who can't live up to that, and it's amazing that most somehow do.

There's a huge amount of conflict and antagonism between my character and many other draenei due to the way she is, and she is a 'poor draenei' by IC standards--but it is very clear that she is still draenei, has come from draenei background, and has simply lost her way (rather than never having found it nor having any idea what it is, like many people do).

Therefore, it takes a much different way of thinking in order to go against the grain. It's possible, but it's harder, because you can't do it the same way you do as a human. To bend the rules properly requires you to actually know what those rules are and to acknowledge them first. The character *comes* from a certain society that is different from humans, and therefore any differences that draenei has needs to be in relation to that society, and not normal human society.

This calls for me taking up the pe--keyboard and writing a little intro to Draenei RP, now that I got vacation anyway

You can always RP drae more as a shaman, mage and so on instead of draenei. Sure the race is still there and affects everything you do but imo it was much more enjoyable and made it easier to mingle with other races aswell. Shamans especially can be taken pretty far

The darker side of the Draenei culture for me will always be there subtle use of pride and pity towards anyone who doesn't follow the Light. Mages, Warriors and Shamans are considered lesser to Paladins or Priests because they lack such a deep connection, and as mentioned before where a young human rogue being rebellious and strikeing out on his own in Human culture may be considered " Cool " or " Inspiring " AKA sticking it to the man. The Draenei would simply not see any reason for it, consider the person to be emotionally unstable, weak and someone to be protected. It is expected to be proper, calm and collected as a Draenei.

And yes, whole heartedly agree that other races should also get more RP. I mean the gnomes are made of complete win, and it's such a shame to see them being swept under the rug; yet again. Not a big fan of " Realistic race population ". I mean, if you wanted anything closer to realistic. There would be 10,000 high elves slumming it up in Stormwind...

Another thing is to me, the racial balance in general seems fairly...realistic, in a way? Human breed like bloody rats without birth control, whereas you'd figure that races which live for a long freaking time would be prone to popping out less sprogs just as a question of natural development.

Also, there's the following effect- when I first started, I made a human, purely because I wasn't 100% certain on a lot of WoW lore and was only just starting in rp. I think a lot of people will be more confident picking a race they understand as a first character, and a lot of the time the first character is the one that become s our main....ergo humans humasn everywhere .

The Draenei I think are tricky because they as SO alien compared to a lot of the other ally races. Humans, gnomes and dwarves are all fairly understandable- Night Elves a little less so, but they're still more or less a common fantasy trope that people will have some understanding of as a concept. Then you have draenei which are, at first glance, ancient slightly monastic spacefaring goat-people. It's a tricky concept to 'get' I think

What are the Major Draenei guilds on the server?

Kittrina wrote:Another thing is to me, the racial balance in general seems fairly...realistic, in a way? Human breed like bloody rats without birth control, whereas you'd figure that races which live for a long freaking time would be prone to popping out less sprogs just as a question of natural development.

Also, there's the following effect- when I first started, I made a human, purely because I wasn't 100% certain on a lot of WoW lore and was only just starting in rp. I think a lot of people will be more confident picking a race they understand as a first character, and a lot of the time the first character is the one that become s our main....ergo humans humasn everywhere .

The Draenei I think are tricky because they as SO alien compared to a lot of the other ally races. Humans, gnomes and dwarves are all fairly understandable- Night Elves a little less so, but they're still more or less a common fantasy trope that people will have some understanding of as a concept. Then you have draenei which are, at first glance, ancient slightly monastic spacefaring goat-people. It's a tricky concept to 'get' I think

Like as I said in the above post to this one, Racial balancing can't really exsist given the believed numbers of the game. If we had every single roleplayer on the server, make a draenei and keep that draenei, the actual population of draenei would need to be far greater. You can go on about ratios, and realism. But it's not gotta much hell of a lot much.

And Draenei? ...Difficult? If you've ever chosen an elven race because they have a sense of un-earthly wisdom, something refreshing and new, and yet welcoming at the sametime. I bet you would choose a Draenei over the elves we have ingame.
Besides, There lore isn't the most difficult to learn, like most races you can read it in the racial infomation page on Worldofwarcraft.com/eu.

Three key words for roleplaying a Draenei: Survival, Faith and Wisdom. Be it you have all three, aim for all three or have lost all three. Make for good building blocks on creating a Draenei.

Flumi wrote:What are the Major Draenei guilds on the server?

The one I'm aware of is Ere Angus.

Vectoria wrote:

Flumi wrote:What are the Major Draenei guilds on the server?

The one I'm aware of is Ere Angus.

Argus. Not Angus.

We're not beef.

Vectoria wrote:Three key words for roleplaying a Draenei: Survival, Faith and Wisdom. Be it you have all three, aim for all three or have lost all three. Make for good building blocks on creating a Draenei.

This is a very good way of putting it.

Vectoria wrote:The darker side of the Draenei culture for me will always be there subtle use of pride and pity towards anyone who doesn't follow the Light. Mages, Warriors and Shamans are considered lesser to Paladins or Priests because they lack such a deep connection, and as mentioned before where a young human rogue being rebellious and strikeing out on his own in Human culture may be considered " Cool " or " Inspiring " AKA sticking it to the man. The Draenei would simply not see any reason for it, consider the person to be emotionally unstable, weak and someone to be protected. It is expected to be proper, calm and collected as a Draenei.

Yup, exactly. There is a lot of pride in draenei society as much as they try to hide it. You are expected to be a lot and if you are any way against that, it's going to be assumed that you've lost your way, or are otherwise inferior. They believe in protecting others and giving of themselves. but it's actually a very selfish kind of protection, because it's assuming that other people can't protect or guide themselves. Draenei see other races as their house pets is the way I've put it before... you love them, but at the same time they are clearly inferior to you and thus must be nurtured and protected.

It's a very, very, very demanding culture. It expects a lot from people. Again, hardcore Lawful Good. They see it as necessary, because it was freedom and individuality that lead to the Burning Legion and therefore they must steel themselves with absolute discipline and commitment to the tenants of the Light in order to stay on the true path. The people who fall behind, however, are in danger of being corrupted, in their minds.

They're not forceful about it, and it's very subtle, but it's there. A constant, quiet peer pressure to always be more, always be better--perfect. Which... isn't too far off from their Eredar days, even if it's in another direction.

I'm a bit disappointed at the stab at Human RP. It's there, it's developed, it has been a cornerstone in some of the greatest RP events. Why should it be traded for something else? Are we aggressing you, passively?

I don't mind the promotion of Draenei RP at all.. But the finger pointing tone at the start of the topic has biased me, and made me jump into a defensive position throughout the rest of the topic. Bah. I would have enjoyed this topic far more without that sentiment.

Let's see... objectively... Why I did usually pick Humans?
Hm..
- One of the first RP stories I ever had in mind was actually a Draenei story. I never made it to the Exodar. I was bored by the quests and lore by the time I made it there. And there wasn't enough RP along that road to keep me interested.
- We all read dozens of fantasy books. We all have a grasp or idea about Dwarves, Elves, Humans... But not the wow Gnomes and squids from outer space (pardon the language ).
- The Lore somewhat feels forced Suddenly it's there, in your face. 10.000 years of history that's suddenly it's a big deal. As beautiful as it is, it feels alien (lololol) and forced down my throat by Blizzard.
- I deliberately choose to RP a young character, just so I could justify not having to know everything. I don't even know how old a Draenei must be to justify that... But if it takes several decades to grow that ridiculously out of proportion character, then you certainly should have acquired some knowledge. So to me it seems the accessibility is out of the window.

AND:

Vectoria wrote:The darker side of the Draenei culture for me will always be there subtle use of pride and pity towards anyone who doesn't follow the Light. Mages, Warriors and Shamans are considered lesser to Paladins or Priests because they lack such a deep connection, and as mentioned before where a young human rogue being rebellious and strikeing out on his own in Human culture may be considered " Cool " or " Inspiring " AKA sticking it to the man. The Draenei would simply not see any reason for it, consider the person to be emotionally unstable, weak and someone to be protected. It is expected to be proper, calm and collected as a Draenei.

I see many Elves and Draenei act posh, vain, and superior towards Humans. As Elves it's a typical character flaw and it doesn't have to be logical: it just has to be their character. As Draenei it's supposed to be logical because they are so superior and knowledgeable. I've seen dozens act posh or superior. You ask a simple question and you get an answer that doesn't match a Draenei at all, but that perfectly matches the short sighted 13 year old playing the 'omg I'm so big'-Draenei. And trying to discuss the short sighted answer gets you a reply like "But you are but a human of 19 years.. I'm 10.000 years old." (almost literal quote).
My reply usually is passive aggressive like "And after 10.000 years you still have not learned something more insightful?"

So while I don't want to point fingers at the people in this thread (having never really roleplayed with them), I can say that the positive and inspiring encounters with Draenei RP I've had so far can be counted on 1 hand. And that's over the past year of intense RP :S

I still have that Draenei story in my head. It's there. But I just lack every incentive to go ahead with it. The facade is -just that discouraging-.

Female draenei probably have the best asses out of any gender/race combo

just sayin'

They have tails...

I don't choose to roleplay a Draenei because I believe them to be superior to Humans. And the pride of a Draenei does not come from the life span, or even the " height ". For me, personally. I choose to roleplay them as the refugees. Making their own way across the world, The Lawful hero, Similar to the Forsaken. I believe their hidden and other times very apparant arrogance to come from being saved. They fled curroption, they took the moral high ground and the Naaru blessed them for it, ascended them away from the Eredar because of this. A typical Draenei would never play the race card, he has to much fun being the calm and collected creature where Humans fight over material things. A higher spiritual connection. The Humans are lost to their sins and their emotions, Of course the Draenei are aswell. But they just like to believe otherwise.

I'll be honest I have issue with Human roleplay because the majority of it makes me want to rip my teeth out. You see far to many Arch-priests/esses, Arch-mages. Kings, Queens, Lords, ladies.. It's just so arrogant. :l

Jeanpierre wrote:I'm a bit disappointed at the stab at Human RP. It's there, it's developed, it has been a cornerstone in some of the greatest RP events. Why should it be traded for something else? Are we aggressing you, passively?

I don't mind the promotion of Draenei RP at all.. But the finger pointing tone at the start of the topic has biased me, and made me jump into a defensive position throughout the rest of the topic. Bah. I would have enjoyed this topic far more without that sentiment.

Let's see... objectively... Why I did usually pick Humans?
Hm..
- One of the first RP stories I ever had in mind was actually a Draenei story. I never made it to the Exodar. I was bored by the quests and lore by the time I made it there. And there wasn't enough RP along that road to keep me interested.
- We all read dozens of fantasy books. We all have a grasp or idea about Dwarves, Elves, Humans... But not the wow Gnomes and squids from outer space (pardon the language ).
- The Lore somewhat feels forced Suddenly it's there, in your face. 10.000 years of history that's suddenly it's a big deal. As beautiful as it is, it feels alien (lololol) and forced down my throat by Blizzard.
- I deliberately choose to RP a young character, just so I could justify not having to know everything. I don't even know how old a Draenei must be to justify that... But if it takes several decades to grow that ridiculously out of proportion character, then you certainly should have acquired some knowledge. So to me it seems the accessibility is out of the window.

The lore is the fault of Blizzard's shitty implementation (and later neglect). We draenei players make due with what little we have and speculate on the rest.

As far as the quests... I prefer draenei quests over everyone save the worgen. Humans are okay but great for their very smooth advancement (at least pre-Cata). Dwarves, gnomes (pre-Cata), and nelves felt very boring to me. Draenei also had the most beautiful starting area (Eversong and Azuremyst still tie for best-looking starting areas, IMO. Gilneas and Kazan are great and evocative, but in terms of outright beautiful, Eversong and Azuremyst remain hands-down the best).

The lack of RP around there, however, sadly is a problem. (I got lucky to roll on day 1 of TBC, and encountered the original Exodus RPing right in the first crash area, albeit I didn't participate at that moment in time (*Edit* MEMORIES)).

As for age... I'm used to RPing young though knowledgeable characters. RPing an older, more-experienced character was new to me, and, frankly, something I've never looked back on. My main characters in RP, whether WoW or not, are nowadays older characters. I love reading up on lore and learning everything I can though, so it makes sense that my characters are fairly well-knowledgeable.

AND:

Vectoria wrote:The darker side of the Draenei culture for me will always be there subtle use of pride and pity towards anyone who doesn't follow the Light. Mages, Warriors and Shamans are considered lesser to Paladins or Priests because they lack such a deep connection, and as mentioned before where a young human rogue being rebellious and strikeing out on his own in Human culture may be considered " Cool " or " Inspiring " AKA sticking it to the man. The Draenei would simply not see any reason for it, consider the person to be emotionally unstable, weak and someone to be protected. It is expected to be proper, calm and collected as a Draenei.

I see many Elves and Draenei act posh, vain, and superior towards Humans. As Elves it's a typical character flaw and it doesn't have to be logical: it just has to be their character. As Draenei it's supposed to be logical because they are so superior and knowledgeable. I've seen dozens act posh or superior. You ask a simple question and you get an answer that doesn't match a Draenei at all, but that perfectly matches the short sighted 13 year old playing the 'omg I'm so big'-Draenei. And trying to discuss the short sighted answer gets you a reply like "But you are but a human of 19 years.. I'm 10.000 years old." (almost literal quote).
My reply usually is passive aggressive like "And after 10.000 years you still have not learned something more insightful?"

So while I don't want to point fingers at the people in this thread (having never really roleplayed with them), I can say that the positive and inspiring encounters with Draenei RP I've had so far can be counted on 1 hand. And that's over the past year of intense RP :S

I still have that Draenei story in my head. It's there. But I just lack every incentive to go ahead with it. The facade is -just that discouraging-.

That has more to do with the fact that crap RPers are crap, and in an under-represented race like the draenei, you have very, very few good RPers to balance it. Especially when most of us stay in our local areas around Exodar. There's nothing we can do to stop that, no more than the night elves can stop the shitty mailbox-dancing Night Elves, and so on. We do what we can, but the draenei community is very limited. Especially when quite a few of us have been on break lately, which leads to even less draenei activity.

Drustai wrote:
That has more to do with the fact that crap RPers are crap, and in an under-represented race like the draenei, you have very, very few good RPers to balance it.

I don't mean to deny that. It's just a facade I'm confronted with. I would be all for it, to have that facade improved and see RP encouraged!

I'll be honest I have issue with Human roleplay because the majority of it makes me want to rip my teeth out. You see far to many Arch-priests/esses, Arch-mages. Kings, Queens, Lords, ladies.. It's just so arrogant. :l

I have seen people roleplay piss poor chaps trying to fight their way in life. They are in fact the majority, which is not something I can say about the Draenei I've seen who, somehow, seem never to lack any means to get along. Despite their whole economy having bursted in flames on this planet.
But yes... there's an overdose of <insert uber title>. All I can say is I'm not one of them. Heck, Jean-Pierre hasn't even acquired his priest title Icly. He's still acolyte.