Get rid of RP guilds!

by **Zinkle Figgins** Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:52 pm

Get rid of RP Guilds!
by Gabriele Channing

With Cataclysm on our doorsteps, we’ll soon have Guild leveling.
Not much information is known about this big feature of the upcoming expansion, but what will it mean for us roleplayers?

The Guild levels are meant to help guilds of all sizes to work better together in raids and leveling alts, we will be able to get Guild Heirlooms and recipes.
Only the top 20 will contribute to the guild level. There will be separate guild achievements which require a certain amount of guildies in the raid-group.

Now in my server, Earthen Ring, we have this beautiful thing called Raidgroups. These are groups that function like guilds but they are not a real guild, they just raid together. This addition will make it hard for those raidgroups to keep up with the raid guilds. As a raidgroup, do you really want to limit yourself even if the guild level is a slight addition?

What does this mean for roleplayers? Most roleplayers have their guild to roleplay with and some of those are in raidgroups to do raids with. The guilds that they are in have, as a group, no intention of gaining ground on PvE or PvP and are focussed on roleplay alone.
This might pose a problem to some roleplayers. They want to continue to roleplay with their guild but also wish to progress in PvE while most of their guild does not care for that. Will you choose for your roleplay or your PvE?

Roleplay has been increased with add-ons such as flagRSP and GHI, you can learn more about a roleplayer just by looking at him, he mostly has a title aswell that shows his renown and guild or organisation.

So why do we still keep RP guilds? Most guilds have their own OOC channel since they don’t want their guild riddled with alts or OOC-members. Besides the tabard there is no real plus to being in a RP guild. It can help meta-gamers because they can see your guild from a mile away and as RP’er you try to ignore all facts you can only know OOC’ly.

Do you really want to have a roleplay guild or a roleplay group? A group will have the same benefits if it’s properly set up, it can have a channel and GHI and flagRSP to disperse information, a forum on the internet and use the calendar to invite.
Drop all roleplay guilds and focus on PvE and PvP.

I found this article while browsing the official WoW forums. I don't agree completely on on the author, but his point is indeed interesting and I wanted to discuss it with you guys. What do you think? Ah, I didn't mark the topic as Cataclysm-related since guild leveling is presented in the official Cataclysm trailer, so I think everyone knows about it yet.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:03 pm

Well, from my point of view seen:
Sin Belore doesn't have that many people really, we can with a whole lot of luck, get a 10 man raid (hasn't happened yet) together. Top 20 that contribute, not a problem for me either, atleast as I understand it now. Maybe it's a problem with guilds that are either very big or have their allowed classes limited.

On the other hand I'm planning to (ab)use the new guild leveling system and perks. 5/10% money? Extra funding! 5/10% more exp? Better training!
It's a good skeleton to hang up some juicy, meaty rp on Very Happy

by **Rmuffn** Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:11 pm

In short its hardly contributing to most roleplaying guilds.
Because in the end roleplaying guilds do just that. Roleplay.
Sure then there are guilds with many 80s that do like raiding.

I still think it's quite unfairly made for RP guilds.

by **Magaskawee/Anaei** Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:48 pm

Err.. Most RP guilds i've been in do alot of what the Guild Achievement and LEveling criteria states. Including Pvp, casual raiding and even Dungeons. So No, don't 'get rid' of RP guilds. That's retarded..

by **itsy** Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:53 pm

Angie Blackwood wrote:In short its hardly contributing to most roleplaying guilds.
Because in the end roleplaying guilds do just that. Roleplay.
Sure then there are guilds with many 80s that do like raiding.

I still think it's quite unfairly made for RP guilds.

I agree who cares about rp guilds not being able to get the perks if they don't rp anyway? This won't mean the death of rp guilds. It would be different if there was something useful for rp guilds in there, like a guildhouse or something interesting rather than different numbers in pvp/pve zzzzzz

by **Jeanpierre** Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:58 pm

Yeah, let's kill our community! Do iet!

Ehm.. no. Screw guild destroying. Either the guild occasionally raids and they'll manage or they don't and they shouldn't give a damn.

by **Magaskawee/Anaei** Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:59 pm

Jazeel wrote:
Angie Blackwood wrote:In short its hardly contributing to most roleplaying guilds.
Because in the end roleplaying guilds do just that. Roleplay.
Sure then there are guilds with many 80s that do like raiding.

I still think it's quite unfairly made for RP guilds.

I agree who cares about rp guilds not being able to get the perks if they don't rp anyway? This won't mean the death of rp guilds. It would be different if there was something useful for rp guilds in there, like a guildhouse or something interesting rather than different numbers in pvp/pve zzzzzz

People think we'll not be able to add at all. How many 80s are in DoL? Each 80 goes toward exp, every dungeon kill goes toward exp, hell DRS has a few hand of ragnaros that'll be exp. Perks like 10% riding and 10% gold into guild bank are unlocked in the first 10 guild levels. Easy!

by **Jakins** Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:06 pm

I'm not getting rid of my RP guild's status, but we will be looking into more PvE along with our PvP we seem to enjoy doing from time to time. Sixty Thieves has always been a guild with alts and I really don't enjoy being surrounded by characters they'd just join for 20 mins of RP a day and nothing else. I'm going to try and build the guild up to allow others to benefit from these achievements and stuff, but all in all, I'm not at all happy with how my guild is right now.

It's a state of either people can't be bothered logging in, or I can't be arsed putting up with these people not bothering to log in, or even just getting fed up with being surrounded by alts.

RP guilds are going to suffer in this next expansion, either because of people who can't be arsed or everybody concentrating on their main guilds with their mains which isn't the RP guild.

by **Gogol** Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:11 pm

Nothing the Great Bear, called DRS will fear.
Only enjoy.

by **itsy** Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:13 pm

Jakins wrote:RP guilds are going to suffer in this next expansion, either because of people who can't be arsed or everybody concentrating on their main guilds with their mains which isn't the RP guild.

Depends on the guild, many of the RP guilds I've been in have been filled with people's mains.

by **Torukan** Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:13 pm

I may not be in a RP guild on Tashun, but I reckon the author is right in some ways, however I personally believe that people who are dedicated to roleplaying in a certain guild wouldn't care for the perks, because roleplaying doesnt require looting more gold, roleplaying doesnt require gaining more xp, roleplaying doesnt require increased mount speed

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:24 pm

Tashun/Galavan wrote:
roleplaying doesnt require looting more gold,

Does anything really require "more gold", only thing that i could imagine is when learning pve content.

roleplaying doesnt require gaining more xp, roleplaying doesnt require increased mount speed

Neither does pve and pvp.

by Guest Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:29 pm

I think Cataclysm will definitly be a pwn to RP for the first time, of course, but after that it'll go back to normal. I don't think this feature will do anything overly bad to RP guilds, seeing as alot of RPguilds raid and if you wanna do die-hard raiding you need a PvE guild anyway. + I don't think the extras will be THAT grand.

by **Nayan** Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:42 pm

Must say even though I understand where the quoted person is coming from, I disagree with that reasoning.

"Most roleplayers have their guild to roleplay with and some of those are in raidgroups to do raids with."
I beg to differ. There's a healthy amount of the RP community that is the other way around. In a PvE guild, and simply RP'ing. You know, you don't need 10 people of specific classes and specs to RP. You do, to PvE. Makes more sense to RP while in a PvE guild, than to PvE in an RP guild. (and try to read what I'm saying here, not what you want to read, to flame Razz

)

I don't see why you "have to" be part of an rp guild, to rp and be part of the rp community. Sure it helps, but it's not a necessity.

"Most guilds have their own OOC channel since they don’t want their guild riddled with alts or OOC-members. "
Most PvE guilds have that as well, for the alts that are in rp guilds or unguilded or w/e.

"Besides the tabard there is no real plus to being in a RP guild. It can help meta-gamers because they can see your guild from a mile away and as RP’er you try to ignore all facts you can only know OOC’ly."
That entirely depends on the sort of guild. And how is a recognizable tabard "OOC" or "metagaming" anyway? I can understand the guildtag, but the tabard? Tabards symbolize something. If your guild doesn't want it obvious, don't friggin' wear them by policy xD

"The guilds that they are in have, as a group, no intention of gaining ground on PvE or PvP and are focussed on roleplay alone."
Those with no interest in PvE or PvP, surely have also no interest on PvE and PvP perks the guild system offers? Razz

~~~

That said, I understand the rp guilds' point of view that they will be drained. Then again, that's nothing new. I was facing that same issue 2 years ago, it's nothing Cata brings.

RP guilds aren't drained by guild perks, they are drained because people move on and want to do pve (mostly) or pvp. And the reason is that the guild doesn't provide that. In all brutal honesty, if you don't provide what someone wants, why the fook would he/she stay? Whether you enjoy pve or not, it doesn't matter, nor should you do it if you don't like it, but it explains -why- people leave.

by **Kil'drakor** Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:47 pm

Nayan wrote:Must say even though I understand where the quoted person is coming from, I disagree with that reasoning.

"Most roleplayers have their guild to roleplay with and some of those are in raidgroups to do raids with."
I beg to differ. There's a healthy amount of the RP community that is the other way around. In a PvE guild, and simply RP'ing. You know, you don't need 10 people of specific classes and specs to RP. You do, to PvE. Makes more sense to RP while in a PvE guild, than to PvE in an RP guild. (and try to read what I'm saying here, not what you want to read, to flame )

I don't see why you "have to" be part of an rp guild, to rp and be part of the rp community. Sure it helps, but it's not a necessity.

"Most guilds have their own OOC channel since they don’t want their guild riddled with alts or OOC-members. "
Most PvE guilds have that as well, for the alts that are in rp guilds or unguilded or w/e.

"Besides the tabard there is no real plus to being in a RP guild. It can help meta-gamers because they can see your guild from a mile away and as RP’er you try to ignore all facts you can only know OOC’ly."
That entirely depends on the sort of guild. And how is a recognizable tabard "OOC" or "metagaming" anyway? I can understand the guildtag, but the tabard? Tabards symbolize something. If your guild doesn't want it obvious, don't friggin' wear them by policy xD

"The guilds that they are in have, as a group, no intention of gaining ground on PvE or PvP and are focussed on roleplay alone."
Those with no interest in PvE or PvP, surely have also no interest on PvE and PvP perks the guild system offers?

~~~

That said, I understand the rp guilds' point of view that they will be drained. Then again, that's nothing new. I was facing that same issue 2 years ago, it's nothing Cata brings.

RP guilds aren't drained by guild perks, they are drained because people move on and want to do pve (mostly) or pvp. And the reason is that the guild doesn't provide that. In all brutal honesty, if you don't provide what someone wants, why the fook would he/she stay? Whether you enjoy pve or not, it doesn't matter, nor should you do it if you don't like it, but it explains -why- people leave.

All pretty valid, if it weren't for the fact that most PvE guilds (heck, almost every PvE guild) have crappy guild names.

A solid name is the best foundation!

by **Jeanpierre** Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:52 pm

My old PvE guild was called Order of the Athanor, based on symbology linked to Alchemy as example of the everlasting search for perfection in control of the elements.... a guild made by scientists where scientific discussion used to be common practice mid raid.
You call that crappy? I see RP guilds with less than half that depth.

by **Jomir** Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:23 pm

RP guilds exist currently without these guild perks, and will continue to exist when they're added. If people leave your guild because you're a little slow at gaining perks then they aren't members worth having in the first place.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:27 pm

An so the mighty Blizz gave use the tools so we can find the unworthy and reward the devout?

by **Sinnadrin** Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:31 pm

Better idea: get rid of PvE guilds on RP-PvP servers!

by **Jomir** Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:35 pm

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:An so the mighty Blizz gave use the tools so we can find the unworthy and reward the devout?

Exactly!

by **Kil'drakor** Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:46 pm

Jeanpierre/Jeanclaude wrote:My old PvE guild was called Order of the Athanor, based on symbology linked to Alchemy as example of the everlasting search for perfection in control of the elements.... a guild made by scientists where scientific discussion used to be common practice mid raid.
You call that crappy? I see RP guilds with less than half that depth.

Yep

'Hey let's pwn the Lich King for some elementz!'

And 'orders' are overrated.

I'm just trolling mind you. This is basically a non-discussion imo since the perks of guild talents are mediocre at best. Nothing game-breaking.

by **Torukan** Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:42 pm

Sinnadrin wrote:Better idea: get rid of PvE guilds on RP-PvP servers!

Why? Animosity and many other PvE guilds don't OOC near RPers, grief RPers or make fun of RPers, and most people in my guild are or have been roleplayers.

This is why I wanted to join a PvE guild, I didn't want to dedicated myself solely to roleplay, I joined a roleplay server so I could roleplay when I felt like it, while keeping my usual PvE (and a little PvP) gameplay I was used to on Quel'Thalas-EU

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:47 pm

Jomir/Nastor/Gannas wrote:
Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:An so the mighty Blizz gave use the tools so we can find the unworthy and reward the devout?

Exactly!

Praise be to Saurfang.

by **itsy** Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:50 pm

Tashun/Galavan wrote:
Sinnadrin wrote:Better idea: get rid of PvE guilds on RP-PvP servers!

Why? Animosity and many other PvE guilds don't OOC near RPers, grief RPers or make fun of RPers, and most people in my guild are or have been roleplayers.

This is why I wanted to join a PvE guild, I didn't want to dedicated myself solely to roleplay, I joined a roleplay server so I could roleplay when I felt like it, while keeping my usual PvE (and a little PvP) gameplay I was used to on Quel'Thalas-EU

because if the servers weren't full of fucking pvers/pvpers maybe we could actually have immersion instead of 1 million non rping retards in orgrimmar/stormwind etc

by **Torukan** Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:15 pm

Jazeel wrote:
Tashun/Galavan wrote:
Sinnadrin wrote:Better idea: get rid of PvE guilds on RP-PvP servers!

Why? Animosity and many other PvE guilds don't OOC near RPers, grief RPers or make fun of RPers, and most people in my guild are or have been roleplayers.

This is why I wanted to join a PvE guild, I didn't want to dedicated myself solely to roleplay, I joined a roleplay server so I could roleplay when I felt like it, while keeping my usual PvE (and a little PvP) gameplay I was used to on Quel'Thalas-EU

because if the servers weren't full of fucking pvers/pvpers maybe we could actually have immersion instead of 1 million non rping retards in orgrimmar/stormwind etc

RP-PVP and universaly every server is PvE (normal), so a RP-PVP-PVE server yet you solely focus on the RP focus point, yes, you're right, there are more rules when it comes to RP servers, however, does it specifically say in the rules "You MUST roleplay to be on this server"? No? Does it say "You must follow the rules set by Blizzard"? Yes. So we have PvE and PvP guilds who don't ooc in /s and /y and don't grief roleplaying, yet you're saying they're ruining your immersion.

Sense = None

Also, if there were no pve or pvp guilds on the server you would notice that things you take for granted like the auction house would be fucked and it'd be very difficult (especially in cataclysm) to be able to make any real raid progression for the server.

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