Re: The discussion about the Shields gathers here.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:01 pm

Jakins wrote:Indeed they're is. We at the 60T get them all the time, they even bully our members OOCly for it to try and chase them out of the guild and game (there have been a few of our members who have suffered from this behaviour). To be quite frank, it's stupid, disgusting and should be banned completely. I could name a few of my members (even non-members) who have been bullied OOC for being a criminal, but I won't for privacy reasons.

*Cracks knuckles* Gief the bullies over, I'm gonna teach them some proper behavior. Criminal rp is the first rp I ever had, it got a special place in my stomac.. I mean heart. Good criminals, even pointed out they weren't stealing actual gold but just emoted!

Mansfield \ Ath wrote:
Join the Blazing Shields -today-! Or their enemies!

That makes me laugh.

by Guest Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:04 pm

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:That makes me laugh.

True :/ I forgot we're out for a expedition and cannot recruit before we return.

But join the Blazing Shields -the day they return-!

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:06 pm

I mean mostly that you encourage them to also join your enemy.

by **Lavian** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:06 pm

Can we buy members instead? I want to buy Meralynn, we have.....Plans :<(

by Guest Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:09 pm

Ovelia "Snow" Adair wrote:Can we buy members instead? I want to buy Meralynn, we have.....Plans :<(

On a per-hour rate you can acquire Meralynn and do with her as you please! As long as you don't infringe on our skype-time!

Also, the money goes to me! I ehh.. have her full agreement in this.. ish.
(Don't let her read this thread! Or the deal is off :<)

by **Meralynn / Ashla** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:11 pm

Damn it Snow, don't encourage Mansfield in believing he owns me! Neutral

(btw, I don't have any fitting dress. Will jeans do?)

by **Lavian** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:11 pm

Talk to her about true-blood and she isn't going to focus on anything else. Smile

EDIT: Jeans will do \o/.

by **Zinkle Figgins** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:11 pm

Netherian Helmsley wrote:Additionally, I have yet to hear any response to the fact that criminals were spreading IC Shields propaganda. Anyone care to do so?

It was me, and it was the least a thug pretending to be a commoner citizen should do. Plus, even if having dozens of guards everywhere, yet it was impossible to go anywhere without being assaulted. And this comes from a criminal.

Netherian Helmsley wrote:Never said it bothers me or that I care in that sense. I just find it ridiculous, having "worse" guards would be celebrated by any sensible criminal.

There is no fun in people not knowing the Stormwind Law, not having clear arrest, imprisonment and punishment policies and not having any kind of relation with us, which is what Shields have instead.

Nygarth wrote:Except your side was an organized event, and our side was a rabble of whoever happened to be online and noticing it.

Hence the selfishness.

As I already told you, we had our good reasons, I would explain better if I could. Also, why should I have warned an Arathorian about a Stormwind-based event for criminals?
I know you guys are not into criminal RP but I never heard of criminals telling others, especially guards, their plans, unless involving severe injures or drastic changes in someone's RP.

Netherian Helmsley wrote:The way I feel about criminal RP is that there is far too much street mugging and blind violence rather than sneakiness. It seems pretty damn repetitive.

Make a guild and change this. We did the same when criminal RP turned into barkeeping and snickering on the Cathedral Square's benches, and it went quite good. Also, rarely we imposed this on people, deciding to carry on our shady business in less-crowded places in order not to get bored and bother others.

Netherian Helmsley wrote:And here is a perfect example that people care too much about "winning". I don't really have anything more to say on the whole matter.

If you only knew... As Blaight can confirm, we outlaws rarely win when fighting the local law-enforcers, unless outnumbering them or playing dirty. If we were interested in winning we'd just pretend to be well-trained assassins and not street thugs and kick everyone's arses.

Anyway, the reason why Shields have been criticized is not their RP (unless we criminals would be complaining the whole time), but the fact that they dared to treat some people as they were common RPers, acting as proper guards with them as well. They apparently didn't like it.

by **Meralynn / Ashla** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:13 pm

BTW... Mansfield! Stop lying that you are cooking when you are actually trolling forums!

And True Blood can only occupy me for so long.

AND I don't think you can afford me. Razz

by **Lavian** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:15 pm

Billiam / Ashla wrote:BTW... Mansfield! Stop lying that you are cooking when you are actually trolling forums!

And True Blood can only occupy me for so long.

AND I don't think you can afford me.

by **Meralynn / Ashla** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:17 pm

Zinkle Figgins wrote: Good, intelligent stuff that Meralynn completely agrees with.

by Guest Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:31 pm

I never said I was cooking! I cannot even cook! I'm not a woman! (I went there.)

by **Jakins** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:40 pm

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:
Jakins wrote:Indeed they're is. We at the 60T get them all the time, they even bully our members OOCly for it to try and chase them out of the guild and game (there have been a few of our members who have suffered from this behaviour). To be quite frank, it's stupid, disgusting and should be banned completely. I could name a few of my members (even non-members) who have been bullied OOC for being a criminal, but I won't for privacy reasons.

*Cracks knuckles* Gief the bullies over, I'm gonna teach them some proper behavior. Criminal rp is the first rp I ever had, it got a special place in my stomac.. I mean heart. Good criminals, even pointed out they weren't stealing actual gold but just emoted!

I would, but you'll probably have heard of a few of the bullies and may get a tad more reluctant to punish those that require it. I could tell you but you wouldn't like the results.

by **William Helmsley** Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:48 pm

Zinkle Figgins wrote:
If you only knew... As Blaight can confirm, we outlaws rarely win when fighting the local law-enforcers, unless outnumbering them or playing dirty. If we were interested in winning we'd just pretend to be well-trained assassins and not street thugs and kick everyone's arses.

A lot of them seem to, running away when surrounded by several guards simply because it is possible while typing an emote to stop that takes some time. That is at least the impression I have gotten so far and indeed why I try to involve myself in alliance vs alliance RP as little as possible. Speaking of combat situation here, I really do not like emote fighting because it will rarely go well unless the individuals in question know each other well and have a good sense of what they can and cannot do. To elaborate on it another reason I prefer to not spend much time on such is that I feel people bring far too much technology into RP. Technology in this case being radios and that sort of stuff. I have people I consider friends who do that as well, and they know my standing on it. And then there is guns, of course, which in my opinion one of the surest way to butcher RP and make it far less entertaining. Speaking here of "handguns" if you will, which in a wow setting is more or less a flintlock pistol, I don't have that much against the larger blunderbuss style rifles. But yeah I can hardly deny people using stuff like that, but to avoid the "omg i shoot u" kind of RP, I tend to stay away from it.

Additionally I realize there is violence in cities, I am well aware. But people might want to show some moderation as in such a setting, call it medieval-ish if you will, criminals actually busted by guards would in all likelihood just be chopped down without being dragged to court and so on. Obviously depending on the crime and a few other things.

A bit too elaborate perhaps but it might give a slightly better idea as to how I see things.

by **Zinkle Figgins** Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:04 pm

Netherian Helmsley wrote:
Zinkle Figgins wrote:
If you only knew... As Blaight can confirm, we outlaws rarely win when fighting the local law-enforcers, unless outnumbering them or playing dirty. If we were interested in winning we'd just pretend to be well-trained assassins and not street thugs and kick everyone's arses.

A lot of them seem to, running away when surrounded by several guards simply because it is possible while typing an emote to stop that takes some time. That is at least the impression I have gotten so far and indeed why I try to involve myself in alliance vs alliance RP as little as possible. Speaking of combat situation here, I really do not like emote fighting because it will rarely go well unless the individuals in question know each other well and have a good sense of what they can and cannot do. To elaborate on it another reason I prefer to not spend much time on such is that I feel people bring far too much technology into RP. Technology in this case being radios and that sort of stuff. I have people I consider friends who do that as well, and they know my standing on it. And then there is guns, of course, which in my opinion one of the surest way to butcher RP and make it far less entertaining. Speaking here of "handguns" if you will, which in a wow setting is more or less a flintlock pistol, I don't have that much against the larger blunderbuss style rifles. But yeah I can hardly deny people using stuff like that, but to avoid the "omg i shoot u" kind of RP, I tend to stay away from it.

Additionally I realize there is violence in cities, I am well aware. But people might want to show some moderation as in such a setting, call it medieval-ish if you will, criminals actually busted by guards would in all likelihood just be chopped down without being dragged to court and so on. Obviously depending on the crime and a few other things.

A bit too elaborate perhaps but it might give a slightly better idea as to how I see things.

Not my men. Rules are clear and trainings/lessons are held every week just in order to avoid such poor RP.
That's why emote-fights have to be done among those who can do them properly, giving armors, weapons, trainings and numbers the due importance and not just using emote-fights as a way to win on a videogame because their lives suck.
I'm against guns and radios as well, but they're so widespread that it's quite hard to ban them - even if we made good progress, enstablishing some ground rules with the local law-enforcers and the other gangs.

Just in order to be moderated we confined our assaults and muggings in specific areas of the city, so we're surely not the ones to be blamed.
To be honest, as many keen on the subject can confirm, guards didn't chase criminals in medieval ages: they just had to toll, make people pay taxes and guard and defend the city walls, they rarely patrol the city, and surely not its slums. This is one of the reasons why crime was so widespread. So having criminals arrested wasn't that common as it is in our city, and taking medieval ages as an example isn't that useful.

by **William Helmsley** Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:15 pm

I was not targeting guilds specifically actually but from what I can tell I approve more of your guild's dealings than a lot of others. One large reason for this is that it is not as obvious, at least as far as I can tell. Most the bad experiences I have had have been with Ravenholdt Sanctuary, they seem more eager to pick fights than to actually make a profit. Additionally, it delights me to hear that you are doing work towards lessening use of technology and guns, that increases my respect for you considerably.

As for there not being guards in medieval times, that is not entirely true, even though the city guards may not patrol the streets, merchants and so forth would hire guards of their own to keep their merchandise safe. Otherwise they would have been completely unable to do so and I rather doubt these treated criminals with silken gloves.

by Guest Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:21 pm

ITT: People care about other peoples approval and what they like/dislike about RP and change their own character/RP for it.

by **John Helsythe Amaltheria** Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:45 pm

I've been a big ass problem to the shields icly.

I've been a great help to the shields icly.

In any case, they are great and apparently they have -again- created another fun RP event, this time with the criminal guilds.

No matter what people say or think: Have ( had ) fun with the event.. That or simply shut it. If you're here to simply whine and cry then shoo, it really is as simple as that.

Shields are doing a great job: -fact-. ( Yes it is a -fact-! )

The event happened. Alot of people had great fun, a few didn't enjoy it. So be it.
Also.. lol at they who are like "I consider this all being ooc".. god.

by **William Helmsley** Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:56 pm

I never tried to tell people how to RP. I explained why I distance myself from the settings in which they are commonly used. Stating an opinion, as it were.

by **Zinkle Figgins** Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:19 pm

Netherian Helmsley wrote:As for there not being guards in medieval times, that is not entirely true, even though the city guards may not patrol the streets, merchants and so forth would hire guards of their own to keep their merchandise safe. Otherwise they would have been completely unable to do so and I rather doubt these treated criminals with silken gloves.

That's why we concentrated our dealings in less-crowded areas, because as we see it in Stormwind there should be "up-town" zones heavily patrolled by the guards (think of the Cathedral Square or the Old Town) and others less-crowded and more slum-like areas, like the Harbour and the Mage Quarter, where petty-thieves can easily hide and guards aren't seen that often.
Indeed, that's why I approve Shields' methods. City guards are not supposed to be well-behaved boys, they're desperates who decided to wear an uniform instead of a mask to survive in a dangerous city, and use violence and intimidation as means to enforce the law, for it's the only way to let we criminals back off.

by **Ehrfürchtige Bennedict** Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:49 pm

Sophyra wrote:Stating Sophyra's reason for 'backing' the shields. Imagine you are an evil temptress, and you have a choice of supporting or wanting gone the guard regiment of drunk, naked-dancing, fun-having, easy-to-impress lads. Better than those puritan Disciples! (ps: Sophyra also supports Arathor, for same reasons )

It's because we like white, isn't it... You heartless bastard Sad

by **Mandui** Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:55 pm

Zinkle Figgins wrote:City guards are not supposed to be well-behaved boys, they're desperates who decided to wear an uniform instead of a mask to survive in a dangerous city, and use violence and intimidation as means to enforce the law, for it's the only way to let we criminals back off.

Many would disagree with this. Guards are appointed by a state to protect the population of a city. They are paid by the Kingdom to do so and they are to show respect to civilians. If guards joined because of the reasons you mention, wearing "an uniform instead of a mask to survive in a dangerous city, and use violence and intimidation as means to enforce the law", the population of the city would sooner or later revolt and bring the matter to the King. He in turn would pick out the ones with said mentality and only keep the ones who joined the guard forces with the sincere motivation to protect the city's population.

Also one last thing. Since the mentality of "IC occurrences should be handled ICly" seems to be broadly accepted, the matter with the Shields will be resolved ICly. I just hope that people don't suddenly have a change of mind when that happens.

by Guest Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:02 pm

Mandui wrote:Also one last thing. Since the mentality of "IC occurrences should be handled ICly" seems to be broadly accepted, the matter with the Shields will be resolved ICly. I just hope that people don't suddenly have a change of mind when that happens.

Exactly. That's why I'm glad there are no issues with the Shields. In either case my previous post should be read;

Either the council and the Shields come to a general consensus together, both agree on, interaction rules.

OR

The council can piss off and leave us alone and we'll continue our RP the way we always too. <-- This does not mean ignoring anyone, by the way.

by **Zinkle Figgins** Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:27 pm

Mandui wrote:
Zinkle Figgins wrote:City guards are not supposed to be well-behaved boys, they're desperates who decided to wear an uniform instead of a mask to survive in a dangerous city, and use violence and intimidation as means to enforce the law, for it's the only way to let we criminals back off.
Many would disagree with this. Guards are appointed by a state to protect the population of a city. They are paid by the Kingdom to do so and they are to show respect to civilians. If guards joined because of the reasons you mention, wearing "an uniform instead of a mask to survive in a dangerous city, and use violence and intimidation as means to enforce the law", the population of the city would sooner or later revolt and bring the matter to the King. He in turn would pick out the ones with said mentality and only keep the ones who joined the guard forces with the sincere motivation to protect the city's population.

I know, different point of views. But it proved to be a liked and effective RP, so I think it works and makes sense.

by **Mandui** Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:29 pm

Zinkle Figgins wrote:
I know, different point of views. But it proved to be a liked and effective RP, so I think it works and makes sense.

There are no statistics on how many agree and how many disagree with that way of RP. I know that many agree with it, but I also know that many don't, considering the amount of IC (and even some OOC) complaints the council has received about the Shields. So let's not draw any conclusions on that.

by Sponsored content