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Know thy crimes! Know thy sins! Can thou reach Heaven?

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Arabella Greene
Jeanpierre
Emrys
Amaryl
Feydor
Skarain
Lorainne/Bridlington
Antistia
Ishap/Virock
Osmand
Eowale
corleth
Braiden
Thelos
Silferdrake
Geneviève
Sanara
Sorayah
Shaelyssa
Gahalla
Seranita
Dréfurion
Timna
Kristeas Sunbinder
Drustai
Lexgrad
Melnerag
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Post by Lorainne/Bridlington Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:48 pm

My go, Osmand!
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Post by Melnerag Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:57 pm

We are working on a NEW list of sins. It is expanded and elaborated. Still missing some, so suggestions are welcome.

Also need help resolving a theological 'inconvinience'

The Chapter does not provide religious services to non-humans, therefore if a non-human commits a sin that does not break the secular Law the Chapter cannot deounce it and try to 'punish' the non-human because the only the Light can punish sins, the Chapter can only provide a path to atonnement. So the filthy Xenos have free license to claim that Anethion IS, after all, enlightened by a Naaru Sad

Spoiler:
TL:DR - everybody is a filthy sinner
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Post by Melnerag Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:17 pm

It is clear that anybody outside of the Chapter is a sinner, so lets look at the sins of a man one would expect to be a Saint by Chapter's standards.....


Baron Dragomir Iretongue:

Intellectual Arrogance : he attempted to prove rationally that the Light is good
Usurpation : he listened to confessions and forgave sins! (Mostly because Lector-rank didn't exist back then)
Sacrielege: he shot an oathbreaker inside the Cathedral
Interracialism: he used help of a Priestess of Elune to fight Ireth, he defeated Ireth with a druidic weapon ...not some Blade of Pure Light
Deception: he pretended not to be Dragomir when dressed as a High Inquisitor to keep his position as a Judge
Wrath: he almost shot a Disciple in anger because the Disciple said that damaging church property wasn't a crime
Arrogance: ..he was just an arrogant man
Luxury: he -loved- big oak tables and comfortable chairs
Vanity: he was overly obsessed about his awesome blonde hair

and about all the Venial Sins in the 'Purity' section


I think that Dragomir isn't in Heaven, watching over the Faithful...but in Hell, acting as Sargeras' right hand or something Sad
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Post by Lexgrad Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:58 pm

Naaruvianism (T/W) : suggesting that Anethion’s revelation was brought by a Naaru Hehehe

You forgot Pride!

Also doesnt the Anethionean funeral rite of burning absolve you of all sins?
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Post by corleth Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:01 pm

Melnerag wrote:The Chapter does not provide religious services to non-humans, therefore if a non-human commits a sin that does not break the secular Law the Chapter cannot deounce it and try to 'punish' the non-human because the only the Light can punish sins, the Chapter can only provide a path to atonnement. So the filthy Xenos have free license to claim that Anethion IS, after all, enlightened by a Naaru Sad
They can't though, as it would be a heresy and heresy is a crime according to the Witchbane. What must be separated is 'sins' and 'crimes'. Sins are mainly what the Clergy deal with in confession, whereas crimes are what the Inquisition aim to stop.
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Post by Melnerag Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:02 pm

Pride is split up into other sins. but will add it to make it more EXPLICIT!

And no, the Funeral Rite does not absolve you of the sins. Sorry. DEATH WON"T SAVE YOU FROM LIGHT"S JUST VERDICT!
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Post by corleth Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:05 pm

Lexgrad wrote:Also doesnt the Anethionean funeral rite of burning absolve you of all sins?
If the person is an Anethionean, yes.

If the person is a believer in the Light, it absolves venial sins and then its the Light that judges whether the person is pure.

If the person is unrepentant (i.e does not believe in the Light), it just sends them straight to the Light to be judged.

If the person is a real baddy then they're excommunicated before death and sent straight to the Nether.

That's my unofficial take, time to to write an essay on it and make it Anethionean doctrine!


Last edited by Corleth on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Lexgrad Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:07 pm

There is only one who can lead you to Atonement; he is called the Lexadin.
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Post by Melnerag Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:08 pm

"There is only one who can lead you to Atonement; he is called the Lexadin."

Aha! THAT counts as PRIDE!
/denounce
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Post by Lexgrad Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:08 pm

Corleth wrote:
Lexgrad wrote:Also doesnt the Anethionean funeral rite of burning absolve you of all sins?
If the person is an Anethionean, yes.

If the person is a believer in the Light, it absolves venial sins and then its the Light that judges whether the person is pure.

If the person is unrepentant (i.e does not believe in the Light), it just sends them straight to the Light.

If the person is a real baddy then they're excommunicated before death and sent straight to the Nether.

That's my unofficial take, time to to write an essay on it and make it Anethionean doctrine!

I thought the justiforcation of the Pyres was that they absolve the sinner of their crimes?
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Post by Lexgrad Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:10 pm

Melnerag wrote:"There is only one who can lead you to Atonement; he is called the Lexadin."

Aha! THAT counts as PRIDE!
/denounce

The light choose me tho!!
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Post by Melnerag Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:10 pm

No no, the pyres HELP absolve sinners of their crimes. Its not a guarantee Very Happy

So while heretics burn we actually plead them to confess and repent! It all fits together, you know!
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Post by Lexgrad Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:12 pm

I really have to write some Lexadin scriptures. He conciders the Chapter to be the same as the forsaken :p. Do not fear, he can bring you back to the light.
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Post by Melnerag Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:14 pm

We are NOT same as forsaken.

They are ruled by a hot chic, Chapter is ruled by an angry old man with a cane!
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Post by corleth Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:14 pm

Lexgrad wrote:He conciders the Chapter to be the same as the forsaken :p.
He really is nuts.

dat undead delusion :p
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Post by Ishap/Virock Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:21 pm

Thank you Osmand... to be honest though, the one you really need to remember with Ishap is the WRATH XD
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Post by Lexgrad Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:32 pm

Ishap has more sins than that.

Withcraft-by-proxy (D) : making use if anything that is obtained, granted, created or empowered through fel and shadow magic.
Advocacy (W) : defending the use of shadow and fel and sympathizing with anyone who is guilty of crimes against the Universe
Fallacy (W) : speaking out against any actions, people, institutions or anything whatsoever that is directed to protecting the Universe from Fel and Shadow
Ignorance (W) : failure to denounce or report the use of Fel and Shadow and any deed that harms the Universe
Disgrace (D) : using powers and privileges of the clergy for personal gain
Sacrilege (D) : despoiling or disturbing the sanctity of the holy places, defacing the icons of faith or laying hands upon the clergy
Blasphemy (W) : slandering the Sacred with word or deed
Heresy (T) : espousing, developing or promulgated deviant religious beliefs
Faithlessness (T) : paying lip service to the Light, following the rituals insincerely
Insult (W) : harming another’s feelings with deliberate unguarded words or gestures
Mockery (W) : making fun of another’s shortcomings
Harshness (W) : making somebody feel, uncomfortable, unwelcome or insulted with your words or deeds
Arrogance (T) : obsession with assumed greatness of your own ego
Luxury (T) : attachment to material wealth beyond what is functional and neat

When Lex RPs with Ishap he is no longer the most shadowy thing in the room Razz
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Post by Melnerag Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:40 pm

Chapter's sin-list is nothing compared to :

http://www.wogim.org/sinlist.htm
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Post by Timna Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:11 pm

Going to review Timna's doings. Lets see...

Guilty of being a:
Spoiler:

Has commited:
Spoiler:




Last edited by Timna on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by corleth Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:32 pm

Greagoir is a pretty strict and puritanical fellow. Let's see what he's done.

Spoiler:

Admittedly, most of these are from when he was still a kinda new character. He's still pretty harsh though.
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Post by Antistia Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:42 pm

Melnerag wrote:We are NOT same as forsaken.

They are ruled by a hot chic, Chapter is ruled by an angry old man with a cane!

This.
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Post by Seranita Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:47 pm

Ohh. Delidah knows monny and her secrets more than anyone. I would love it if she compiled this list as I suspect. I would be bias against monnies favour LOL
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Post by Skarain Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:40 pm

Okay...Lets have a look at Skarain

Soulslaying (D) - She destroyed a few Demons soul anchored to an object.
Conduction (D) - She did summon demons at her early time as a Warlock.
Soulsnatching (D) - Trapping Demon souls into a weapon.
Damnation (D) - Use of a Fel resurrection spell that corrupts the target.
Necromancy (D) - See above Very Happy
Witchcraft (D) - She used fel, still use shadow.
Withcraft-by-proxy (D) - She had a weapon that was a demon itself. Far from ordinary 'very' much Fel Razz
Ignorance (W) - She allows others do whatever they want with their magic. Its their problem if they die to it.
Apathy (T) - People can do whatever they want from her view. Within certain limits.
Irreligious Behavior (D) - She believe in the light, but doesn't worship it.
Murder (D) - She have killed people with dagger and countless with magic.
Sorcery (D) - She have used magic to torture and kill.
Harm (D) - See above
Subversion of the Law (D/W) - She was there freeing Drustai from jail Very Happy
Subjugation (D) - Use of shadowbounds when torturing someone.
Disobedience (D/W) - She ultimately trust her own judgement, and sometimes acted on impulse.
Theft (D) - She was a thief in one way or another for ~25 years.
Selling Out (D) - Her mercenary superiors aren't all human.
Interracialism (D) - Not a racist
Treachery (T) - Seeing nothing bad in it.
Idleness (T) - Not all things aren't her things.
Wandering (D) - She goes where she need to, not where the "sacred duty" wants her to go.
Encouragement (D) - Not a racist
Infallibility (T) - Not willing to confess all because...the list is so darn long and would lead surely to her death if she ever would Very Happy
Wrath (T) - She have had troubles controlling her emotions, have hurled fire in anger (angry Skara is a rare sight)
Selfishness (T) - Her goal > else
Treating with Prejudice (T/D) - Ofc, like Chapterians are all evil until proven wrong.
Intoxication (D) - She likes wine, even if avoiding to get truly drunk.
Wishing Harm (T) - She hates a few people.
Thinking Poorly (T) - Brainz not always working
Concealing the Truth (D) - Its her business, not their business.
Unhelpful deeds (D) - Selfish sometimes
Unhelpful speech (W) - Can't help sarcasm now and then.
Unhelpful thoughts (T) - Got to love to Daydream

Yep. She is going straight to Hell Very Happy
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Post by Seranita Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:26 am

Advocacy (W) : defending the use of shadow and fel and.. sympathizing with anyone who is guilty of crimes against the Universe (yes she did this once)
Naaruvianism (T/W) : suggesting that Anethion’s revelation was brought by a Naaru
Sacrilege (D) : despoiling or disturbing the sanctity of the holy places, defacing the icons of faith or laying hands upon the clergy
Sedition (W) : undermining the authority of the communal leaders such as magistrates, guards, nobles and the King
Sorcery (D) : using magic irresponsibly, using it to harm others or obtain personal gain at expense of others
Harm (D) : bringing harm upon another sapient being
Subversion of the Law (D/W) : denouncing the law-enforcement or sympathizing with those facing a sentence or suffering a verdict
Disobedience (D/W): gainsaying your superiors when they speak in their proper station
Vandalism (D) : damaging the possessions which are not your own
Adultery (D) : intimacy with anybody outside of current wedlock
Deception (W) : speaking untruth, making a promise with no intention of keeping it
Insult (W) : harming another’s feelings with deliberate unguarded words or gestures
Mockery (W) : making fun of another’s shortcomings
Harshness (W) : making somebody feel, uncomfortable, unwelcome or insulted with your words or deeds
Spreading Ill Rumors (W) : speaking poorly of another behind his back
Fornication (D) : intimacy outside of wedlock
Wrath (T) : an emotional outburst against a person or an object
Hatred (T) : obsession with harming another creature, or wishing that it would come to harm
Jealousy (T) : coveting something of another, be it a thing or an attribute
Lust (T) : obsession with bodily desires
Vanity (T) : obsession with the outward appearance
Flirting (D/W) : flirting with another for fun, and with no pure and serious intentions
Bacchanalianism (D) : clouding your mind with excessive alcohol or other narcotics
Attachment (T) : an attachment to another person so strong that it distracts from the Light
Treating with Prejudice (T/D) : forming and acting on an opinion of another being without knowing him
Intoxication (D) : consuming alcohol or any other narcotic substances
Wishing Harm (T) : desiring some harm or misfortune to fall upon another
Leisure (D) : undertaking leisurely activities
Thinking Poorly (T) : resenting or holding another being in contempt
Concealing the Truth (D) : withholding information that another has the right to know
Unhelpful deeds (D) : acting beyond what is strictly necessary
Unhelpful speech (W): speaking beyond what is strictly necessary
Unhelpful thoughts (T) : thinking beyond what is strictly necessary


\Hmm according to this list and definitions my monny has been a verry verry naughty girl.. There are a few bad ones in there two :S[i]
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Post by corleth Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:01 am

Monrena believes Anethion was granted His revelation by the Naaru? So she does acknowledge him as a prophet of the Light and someone worthy of praise?
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