Re: Stormwind Council

Can we get a thing put in place that basically says that all the rulings and laws of the Stormwind Council are run by Varian Wrynn, and that unless they're insane, he gives them the okay?

The reason I say this is due to a few issues raised lately with the idea that the Council are not operating under "The King's Law", or whatever. The idea that they don't is pretty silly, because means that the king made the council, and then is at odds as to what they're actually deciding. Either that or he doesn't care, also stupid.

Varian is not a hands-on king. He leaves the actual running of the kingdom to politicians, whilst he goes out fighting. The idea that he doesn't trust the Council just doesn't work.

due to a few issues raised lately with the idea that the Council are not operating under "The King's Law"

Raised ICly or? Because there is no reason someone can't just be disagreeing with the Council and reassure themselves that surely the King wouldn't even agree. I'm not sure what context you raise this in. As I know ICly there has been a lot of it, but that is personal character opinions on not trusting them. Which is not exactly a problem.

Also, people disagreeing creates more RP anyway, which is a good thing. Would be boring if we all agreed all the time.

Among the roleplayers, to my knowledge there is a rule akin to:
"Your character is only as powerful as other players allow them to be".

While you certainly can emote bringing down the moon from the sky, if the other players do not acknowledge it, the deed have never happen to them.

Stormwind Council is a similar thing. It actually have no more power than the players surrounding it agree to give it. No player roleplaying a guard 'have' to go with the Council created list of laws. No player roleplaying 'have' to acknowledge the Council's claim on anything.

The fact that the Stormwind Council is a player-run organisation and does not claim divine authority allows those players who want nothing to do with the Council to stay outside of it circle if they wish to.

King Varian Wrynn also did never create the Stormwind Council. Years ago, nine to then years ago, it was created by the most dominant roleplaying guilds in the Stormwind Scene as a platform to promote roleplaying.

Stormwind Council

The Stormwind Council has served the citizens for a long time, firstly founded by the guilds Holy Lightbringers, The Shining Strand and The Order of Justice. Thanks to Lady Someras fine idea about a council that could watch the interests of Stormwind the Council was a great success. It has kept the bane of Stormwind high by bringing justice, setting up laws and a court, dealt with the Dark Sphere, building up a defence against the horde, setting up patrols, starting the Stormwind University, amusement events, listing the property, among many other important tasks.

The Council is open for every citizen to attend and if you feel you can contribute to it you may even try to apply. The meetings are held in the Keep on tuesdays at 21.00 server time.

Quoted from the website of Holy Lightbringers, who have been here more or less from the launch of the server: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] . For reference, "The Dark Sphere" used to be a Shadowy Cult back in Vanilla-TBC days. Dark people doing dark shiz, including fighting lighties, dark rituals and much much more.

This was the original purpose of the Council. During the years, the purpose of the Council have changed as players change and the game change. The Second Gurunbashi Empire for example no longer prey upon the southern border of Kingdom of Stormwind, being reduced from +40 members to roughly five. In ages past, there used to be a Minister of Defense in charge of defensive matters and a Minister of War in charge of the offensive. Those two have since then merged, just as Minister of Faith was merged into the Minister of Internal Affairs.

The Council is what the players in it and surrounding it make out of it. What lies in the future for the Council, only time will tell. However, It will continue in some shape or form as long as the server itself remain standing. This has been witness, from time to time, across difficult times and change of eras.

But never should the Council fall under such again to claim King Varian Wrynn to actually hear their voice, for such is no more true than you claiming to be the mother of Anduin Wrynn or the lovechild of Arthas and Jaina.

TL;DR: Council is a player-created organisation. It was not created by King Varian Wrynn, and is not connected to him in any way. They just help to run the city while he has his eyes on war.

I understand that the council was made OOCly, by active players of the time, but the idea that it was ICly not created or endorsed by Varian Wrynn is a little odd, to say the least. If Varian did not accept the Council to run his city whilst he's out fighting or whatever, then what basically happened is that a bunch of renegade people turned up in his keep and started running his city, without his permission. The Council, by dint of what it is and does, almost HAS to have his acceptance IC. We have a Minister of Justice who can make laws, after all. How would he have the authority to do so if the King doesn't agree with these laws?

The issue was brought up IC about the Council being corrupt and not following the "King's Laws", but surely the Council's laws are essentially the King's Laws? I know that it's bad RP to claim to know or interact with lore characters, but in this case, it seems ludicrous that they wouldn't have done.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Keep Varians involvement vague, and if it's brought up ICly, play it down and keep it vague.
Any thing else is a power play IMO and to easily abused.

Keep it simple, stupid.

That link should give you a couple ideas as to how you might go about doing that o/

Well, what 'are' the King's Laws? The laws stated in the official lore. Thing is, those ain't many, and claiming "X" to be a law without Source is not a valid official law.

I've had to skip a few Councils, so you able to recap to me what the Council does differently than the "King's Law" claim? I'll be able to dig up some lore-sources to respond to that then.

I know that at least on one of my characters I have claimed the council is corrupt and not following the Kings Law wherever my character may believe a law change is not to his liking. Doesn't mean it makes sense, and its simply that ICly he can't possibly believe the Council are doing things properly. Because the -character- is not happy to accept the changes. I really don't think it is an issue. And as Skarain said, its not something people -have- to accept where it is a player made organisation.

Also, the topic of IC debating about the Council being corrupt or not is still creating RP, it would likely be stranger for everyone to follow the council to the letter and accept their claims and laws, than small groups dislike them or contesting their rule.

I believe the main claim I've heard of breaking 'Kings Law' is basically anything that leans towards Fel Magic leniency, which is also fine. Some people choose to stay involved with the grander scheme of things, and play down issues that might make them feel forced out of the larger hubs where their character would under real circumstances just leave. I don't think its anyone turning round and saying The council are making things up as they go along Just individual character quirks.

I remember once when there was a IC vote to make kidnapping illegal becouse it wasn't written down in the player made law post.

Fun stuff.

The best vote i've ever seen, was during a community of Light meeting, where the community was voting on which voting system to use. majority or two-thirds? Creating a sweet, sweet paradox problem.


But back to the council: here's the thing; claiming that your authority comes from the King or not, doesn't fucking matter a single iota. It changes nothing. Absolutely nothing, because the king can't come there and say its true or not. Do you honestly believe people will take the council's word that the king gave them the power, when they're being accused of corruption? Ofcourse not, they'll demand to hear it from the King itself, but that's impossible.

So you don't talk about it. Because - If you actually do say the king or historically Bolvar, gave authority to the council, which in the past has been the case, that's when the OOC meta-gaming and power-gaming shitshow discussions start. I've seen them all, its stupid.

Claiming the King's authority for the Council is like saying "God did it" when discussing science. It invalidates everything the other party is doing. It gives the council authority to dictate everything in SW and you can't really argue with it.