A possible new start for Civillian RP?

Recently the city of Stormwind has fallen in population due to people going to Draenor and various other reasons. However I am not here to complain about the state of the server RP-wise. Instead I am looking to fix and/or help the city RP in Stormwind that some of us enjoy. As things stand currently you have very few choices when it comes to guilds in Stormwind. Usually having to pick between criminals, guards or badass merc types. There's no real middle ground just the same old stereotypical stuff we've seen for ages. And yes - In the past before we have seen people try and start up civilian RP guilds to better off the RP for everyone.

After an extensive conversation with Iriel the GM of the Stormwind Regiment an idea was put forward that we (The Forlorn Cartel) and the Stormwind Regiment would consider creating a 3rd guild both for alts of our current guilds and also those that wish to RP civilians in the city to not only have some cool new RP opportunities but to also give more people for guards to arrest and criminals to mug. This would not also be mainly an alt guild. This is something you could join on your main character and he/she doesn't even have to be just a simple craftsman. It can be -Anyone- who doesn't want to be put into that stereotypical situation that is "Good" or "Bad".. neutral characters with their own goals and such would also be welcome.

The idea hasn't been put into place yet and I just thought I'd post it here to get some feedback on the idea and the levels of potential interest that we might get. If enough people were supporting of it however it is something that we could make effective immediately.

Big up, I'm in.

I do think if it's a civilian -guild- it does need to have some sort of purpose, so there's at least a draw for people to log in and potential for events. But totally agree on the need for a middle ground between "Guards / Adventurers" and "The Crime Scene"

I also believe this is a great oportunity to promote the realm's rp, where people doesn't only see guards or criminals. This is a way to promote all kinds of Roleplay, you don't have to be a normal civilian theres all kinds of people in the city, you can run shops, be a scholar, doctor, trader, merchant, adventurer er.. anything really, good, bad, evil, crazy, angelical, neutral.

This can give new roleplayers more ideas, also extend this to other guild alts too. It can be interesting rp getting out our usual roleplay and create something new that doesn't really require as much effort you place in your long term main character, or if you wanted you can have your main in it.

So far the city and roleplay overall is sided on good and evil rather than diverse without a lead and free and open for everyone.

The idea mainly is to give a collective of alts and roleplayers a chance to put their alts and a meaning of being in the collective of the city

Why does everything need events. I never attend anyway. And like Iriel and Rob said: "alts".

I like this. I got plenty of civillian type chars, but no-where to put it.

How about like an Union of working class people. That was an idea I played with a long while.

Anywho.. i can't wait for my Civilian alt to be repeatedly mugged AND thrown in jail

I don't think a union fits. Some characters wouldn't want to join one. Better to have a universal OOC name like "Citizens of Azeroth"

Very, very good idea. I would be happy to help out to get something like this up and running!
Good job Iriel and Robin!

These civilian characters don't just have to be workers they can he anything

Citizens of Azeroth. I like that. You could make the guildname as a title for each character. like or just

I support this! Best Idea of 2015 so far !

A guild like this I am guessing would only really need ranks like the Citizens, GM and moderators. However my question is would this guild have an open doors for people to invite new comers when we spot them. I do think this might work well for promoting rp on the realm ( in short, all guild members can invite people)

Events could work too for things like Mass, public trials of criminals, markets, festivals, dances, balls etc to make it more widely known outside the guild planning it.

The guild was created just this evening and all of the ranks are named "Citizen" not only to promote people getting to know one another before judging what their character will be like but to also avoid possible metagaming scenarios. On top of this to answer your other question Beladon yes all of the ranks have currently been given the access to invite other members. With me and Iriel busy having to run our own guilds it's likely there won't be officers online that often if at all and in that sense we want the guild to be able to sustain itself. With possible event ideas now and then but mainly for people to organise their own RP and get involved in what's happening around the city.

Cool, I think I have an alt or two I could give towards this.

So Cool. I'm in. I got an Alt for this. What is the guildname?

citizens of azeroth

I could throw an alt in there.
Sounds good. ^^

I have given this some thought as well, and 'citizens' is a logical step to break the long-time dichotomy of cops and robbers.

But as has been mentioned by Lyniath;

Lyniath wrote:
I do think if it's a civilian -guild- it does need to have some sort of purpose, so there's at least a draw for people to log in and potential for events.

The problem with civilians being able to be -anything- they want is that there is no focus, and there are few events they could feasibly do, and giving them enough drive to log in and walk the city. Robin described (part of) the role of civilians thusly;

Robin Drake wrote:
...more people for guards to arrest and criminals to mug.

Of course there is more to it than this, but this seems to be their primary, unified goal when I read this. Scenery for people to rob, or to protect. Making the streets busier again so the server is more fun. Now, I am sure people would love to be a part of this, and people want the server to have more RP. It's hard to deny that.
But making a guild of 'Civilians' whose directive is to 'just be citizens' only really works if the streets are already full of random encounters to enjoy, or if they really keep at it. If the RP in Stormwind is in decline, I don't think asking a few people to liven it up so they can be mugged, helped, or nodded at by guards is going to be enough.

Guards are cool. They get to wear snazzy outfits, and get shouted at by superiors often. They can be a low-key hero that fights criminals, patrols the city or stands post while chatting with their fellow guards. It is a fantasy that has been well executed by guilds, and is attractive to people.

Criminals are cool. They are scum, rogues, bad-asses. They thrive on intimidation, witty remarks and fighting -the man-. They have a dangerous allure that has long attracted people, with more always cropping up.

Citizens... could be anything? But, they should not be bad-ass mercs, those are already around. Not a soldier, as then they should not be guards. Not a thug, as there are already witty criminals. Those roles are filled by other guilds. So what is left? Everything else! But, don't 'everything else' people already walk the streets? Or is there another reason other than missing a <Citizen> tag above their head that has kept them from doing this?

I think the primary reason the roleplay in the city has been reduced to cops vs. robbers is the lack of activities for anyone outside of those groups to do. It is not enough that you make a guild for 'a middle group' and stuff your alts in them. It's that there needs to be a reason for citizenry to be around other than being scenery.
People need to run things in Stormwind, that require little help from the outside to be fun, that appeal to a fantasy and are active. Not needing, but enhanced and open to people joining in! Should enough people do this, then one could promote the city, and people would come to check it out.

The tough part is, how do you create these fun, non guard/thug locations or events? The most potential lies in shops and taverns. These have always been attractive spots. Running a good tavern, being a barman/maid has its allure. The Smoking Blade in times past is a prime example of a real hotspot. The Pig and Whistle has been last year too when the Band of the Brave hung their often. I believe the Shady Lady was too, although I visited less often. They often do require customers, but since they are also a hang-out spot you can just idle around until folks show up. And once you're there often enough, people will show up.
Some shops have been ran as well. Right now, the Artisan Appropriators have their shop in the Mage's District. Fragrant Flowers used to be run as well. All cool ideas, but they are less likely to be hang-out spots, so they'll be empty most of the time unless manned and RP'd in by at least two people from those groups. However, most enterprising guilds of this nature give up before this could ever come to fruition. I've seen many guilds based around this start up, and die within a month. They relied too much on outsider visitors, and unfortunately that is not feasible at this time.

Lastly, you could have events like a market. An event every week, or every few weeks, that draws people out to come visit. This has great potential too, and if run well and promoted often, could bring people back to the city. Although, in this case, it's only for that one event.

Regardless, I hope you do well! I have long burned out from patrolling the cities, chasing thugs, or idling for weeks in a bar. If something new and fun should arise, I might give it a try again.

Rinoi wrote:I have given this some thought as well, and 'citizens' is a logical step to break the long-time dichotomy of cops and robbers.

But as has been mentioned by Lyniath;

Lyniath wrote:
I do think if it's a civilian -guild- it does need to have some sort of purpose, so there's at least a draw for people to log in and potential for events.

The problem with civilians being able to be -anything- they want is that there is no focus, and there are few events they could feasibly do, and giving them enough drive to log in and walk the city. Robin described (part of) the role of civilians thusly;

Robin Drake wrote:
...more people for guards to arrest and criminals to mug.

Of course there is more to it than this, but this seems to be their primary, unified goal when I read this. Scenery for people to rob, or to protect. Making the streets busier again so the server is more fun. Now, I am sure people would love to be a part of this, and people want the server to have more RP. It's hard to deny that.
But making a guild of 'Civilians' whose directive is to 'just be citizens' only really works if the streets are already full of random encounters to enjoy, or if they really keep at it. If the RP in Stormwind is in decline, I don't think asking a few people to liven it up so they can be mugged, helped, or nodded at by guards is going to be enough.

Guards are cool. They get to wear snazzy outfits, and get shouted at by superiors often. They can be a low-key hero that fights criminals, patrols the city or stands post while chatting with their fellow guards. It is a fantasy that has been well executed by guilds, and is attractive to people.

Criminals are cool. They are scum, rogues, bad-asses. They thrive on intimidation, witty remarks and fighting -the man-. They have a dangerous allure that has long attracted people, with more always cropping up.

Citizens... could be anything? But, they should not be bad-ass mercs, those are already around. Not a soldier, as then they should not be guards. Not a thug, as there are already witty criminals. Those roles are filled by other guilds. So what is left? Everything else! But, don't 'everything else' people already walk the streets? Or is there another reason other than missing a tag above their head that has kept them from doing this?

I think the primary reason the roleplay in the city has been reduced to cops vs. robbers is the lack of activities for anyone outside of those groups to do. It is not enough that you make a guild for 'a middle group' and stuff your alts in them. It's that there needs to be a reason for citizenry to be around other than being scenery.
People need to run things in Stormwind, that require little help from the outside to be fun, that appeal to a fantasy and are active. Not needing, but enhanced and open to people joining in! Should enough people do this, then one could promote the city, and people would come to check it out.

The tough part is, how do you create these fun, non guard/thug locations or events? The most potential lies in shops and taverns. These have always been attractive spots. Running a good tavern, being a barman/maid has its allure. The Smoking Blade in times past is a prime example of a real hotspot. The Pig and Whistle has been last year too when the Band of the Brave hung their often. I believe the Shady Lady was too, although I visited less often. They often do require customers, but since they are also a hang-out spot you can just idle around until folks show up. And once you're there often enough, people will show up.
Some shops have been ran as well. Right now, the Artisan Appropriators have their shop in the Mage's District. Fragrant Flowers used to be run as well. All cool ideas, but they are less likely to be hang-out spots, so they'll be empty most of the time unless manned and RP'd in by at least two people from those groups. However, most enterprising guilds of this nature give up before this could ever come to fruition. I've seen many guilds based around this start up, and die within a month. They relied too much on outsider visitors, and unfortunately that is not feasible at this time.

Lastly, you could have events like a market. An event every week, or every few weeks, that draws people out to come visit. This has great potential too, and if run well and promoted often, could bring people back to the city. Although, in this case, it's only for that one event.

Regardless, I hope you do well! I have long burned out from patrolling the cities, chasing thugs, or idling for weeks in a bar. If something new and fun should arise, I might give it a try again.

Pretty much sums up what I was getting at.
Anyways, I'll just keep wandering SW in crimson antagonizing the Disciples until certain people get back on

Everything that Rinoi said.

Even Civilians need a "purpose".

While there have not been one around for ages, Noble houses at least did offer an opportunity to play a servant or a posh noble. Admitted, way to often they got armed forces of their own, and i don't think that counts as civilian anymore.

Hosting a bar is another good thing. I for one have roleplayed a Bartender and it can be good fun. It just requires a motivated crew to keep one running.

That's my topmost thoughts of the matter. Civilian Rpers just as anyone need a purpose, be it a guild or person they serve, a job or a mission of their own. Something that makes depth behind the concept and gives a reason behind the characters actions.

Think the reason why it's not a popular thing to do at the moment is because rolling a neutral civilian who doesn't really have some kind of his own group is like throwing a lamb in the middle of pack of wolves on one side, pack of lions on the other and a godzilla on the third.

Minding your own bussiness and doing peaceful neutral RP is fun, however being used as a fodder for criminal guilds is not. Yes, it's the cruel reality that you can get your ass whooped and mugged and that's perfectly fine but I think we just don't have enough guards or atleast their control over the city is not sharp enough.

I've walked into SW doing neutral RP just once, it was a frail loner worgen who was quite "special" in his head. Bit insane as he refered to himself in third person but point being he was neither aggressive or provocative and infact he looked quite weak and frail. It literally didn't take more than 20 minutes before
he was beaten up and knocked unconscious by a cartel member in the middle of the street simply for the "heh, why the hell not" factor. If he ended up beating the member of the cartel to the pulp, I think it wouldn't take more than a day before a large group carrying over 9000 flintlocks would appear and gun him down.

I'm not judging the cartel guild with that, they are infact just RPing what they set out to RP. My point is that there's a lot of dangerous groups walking around (my guild included) and they're looking for fresh meat, one that is becoming quite hard to come across these days.

Also worth noting: in a city where crime is as prominent as it is (criminals account for like half our SW rpers) it's just not feasible to live your life as a harmless peaceful citizen. Civilian RPers would/should be armed and know how to defend themselves. In that regard, I believe the Blades for Hire and Band of the Brave make out more logically realistic depictions of what civilians are than an alt guild that, as has been said, probably won't amount to more than victims for the cartel to attack, and cases for the regiment to solve.

Alright rather than the comment of being a guild about Cartel ti attack and Regiment to solve I'm going to tell you what this is, because I see you formed your own movie there ... and I will clear that out for you .

Some people has alts the jump on time to time even other has alts more normal and easy to role play than your main .

The guild is formed for these and possible new role players that wany to try something on the middle ground. In fact were planning the function of the guild itself rather than what to do with it with our own guilds .

In fact citizens can be anything not just stereotypical background fill on a action movie.