RP Confessions

If it's so horrible, then tell me, who on this server have I actually hurt with my horrible horrible RP?

Do you really think after saying people have been effected by such RP I would name them on a public forum?

My standing point here is that so long as YOU ARE CONSIDERATE OF PEOPLE AROUND YOU nothing is off limits ICly. If nobody is being pushed to doing things they find unpleasant then it is a crime with no victims. I've never had that kind of RP with anybody who weren't just as up for it as I was. Heck, when I was in the Forlorn Cartel that kind of RP was common occurence. And it was all fine because if somebody didn't like it nobody was trying to force them (to my knowledge) and so long as everybody has the choice to walk out on it when it gets too grim there's no reason to condemn people for what they pretend is happening in a fictional universe (again, which, as long as you are CONSIDERATE is no different from writing a rape scene into a book or a TV show. Nobody is getting hurt)

And you can't name people that I've personally hurt with that sort of RP, because I haven't forced anybody to take part in that sort of RP. So don't make it seem like you have a support group ready to shame me down.

Brigs Morgan wrote:Id like to personally throttle people that do rape rp. Imo anyone who takes part in that kinda rp is a sick mother fucker.

That was my standing point. A jab at weird people that wanna do a little bit of casual rape RP. No accusations, No directing rage or butt hurt at anyone. A simple RP confession In an RP confession thread.

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:I have characters that both are responsible for and victims of all those horrible crimes you've listed

That is what you replied to me with, I did not say you are responsible personally for anything I stated, You came out and said that of your own free will. I said it can effect people and I have experienced events in which such RP has really upset people. As a reasonable human being I think It's pretty fucking disgusting thing to defend in any form.

Confession! Not just because of the RP argument above (lets face it, rape RP really is a bit weird) but joining these forums has put me off ever roleplaying Alliance side.
Maybe its just because Horde presence on these forums is so limited, but I've managed to stomach all the nasty people and drama I've encountered in the Horde RP scene...

IC laws seemingly more detailed than IRL laws, people constantly bitching at each other, stupid stupid character concepts, the never ending and utterly pointless arguments about criminal guilds versus law guilds (seriously, these arguments make me want to throttle every single one of you).
Many months ago I decided to bite the bullet and give Alliance RP a go, and within 5 minutes of finding roleplayers I found a scantily clad female gnome who's MRP said "is actually a 5 year old human girl" and I gave up a second later.

I know this is harsh, so I'll soften the blow slightly by saying that many Alliance roleplayers I've encountered myself IC and OOC, outside of these forums, has been excellent.
Maybe its mostly these forums being poison and bringing the worst out in people?

I always enjoy a good debate. But the above has turned into something of a flaming war. This does seem to happen on this forum routinely. Perhaps a few more moderators would help shut this kind of thing down?

I've had a similar experience to Briggs, it isn't nice especially when a friend is affected. But I can understand the main point of 'just consider other people and ask what their boundaries are'.
Can we agree that you both have a valid point, interspaced with flaming, and leave it at that? ^^

IC laws seemingly more detailed than IRL laws, people constantly bitching at each other, stupid stupid character concepts, the never ending and utterly pointless arguments about criminal guilds versus law guilds (seriously, these arguments make me want to throttle every single one of you).

Yes. It's a thing. Fun stuff "detailed laws" kinda gets funny to say when people vote to put kidnaping as illegal becouse it's simply not writen in the "law book".

I know this is harsh

It's not. Except for when you happened to meet one surely very bad things in the eyes of many in a short amount of time and gave up.

The forums sound like the primary reason, rather then seeing something bad.

But seems strange since you know some people that you find nice but didn't try to find them then.

Maybe its mostly these forums being poison and bringing the worst out in people?

It's not diffrent then any other place on the internet. Stuff like this happens.

I'll confess I never really RPed on Horde but some things I have heard that were bad on that side too. Though while it surely would put me off in a way (or not, who knows?) Plenty of various reasons why I haven't that aren't related.

I wouldn't even know where to begin looking for the people I knew I liked! I walked into the pub in Stormwind which was the only place I knew was an RP hub.

Horde side has its moments of stupidity, and its stupid people. Perhaps I'm even one of them?
But, all told, Horde seems more like a bunch of guilds trying to do their own thing and interacting sometimes whereas Alliance is everyone in Stormwind, all the time, forever, rubbing their cocks in each other's faces.

But yes, these forums are my primary dislike. I cruise these forums fairly regularly, for two reasons. The first is to check for things which might affect me or my guild and the second is for the same reason people slow down when they drive past car crashes.

Brigs Morgan wrote:Well I suppose I can honestly say I've never had to think of a situation where I might want my character to rape someone. If people wanna do it then I assume they have some kind of problem OOCly and can take that shit far, far away from where I wanna RP. I hope and pray most of the server follow that view. Defending rape RP is a new low I have experienced on this forum/server. And that really is saying something.

While I've never had rape RP done as such. I have roleplayed characters who have raped in their backstory. A very simple backstory of "Soldier in war". Where, sadly as a fact, rape happens. Or rather, rape is a very common occurence. And gives an easy "darkness" more complexity for more depth.
And "Rape RP" can be as simple as just saying it happened. It doesn't have to be a detailed description of the act (of a fairly common fetish as more extreme kinks go). It's all a matter of preference since the fact that it happened to your character can be a great point of intrest in your RP. "How to deal with this in a way that would make sense for <character>?" Same as some people will RP out other torture or dismemberment in great detail while others will just want it blacked out and come up with a list of injuries.
Depends on what you want to explore with RP. Do you just want to have happy shiny fun or explore parts of life you abhore and never, ever, want to experience?

I personally dislike people that completely gloss over murder and genocide like it's no big deal when it comes to RP.

It fucking is - killing all the kobolds and stealing their candles means something. And as such I sometimes have a hard time understanding the ease with which people just say: Lol fantasy, but when it comes to other things they're like: aaah creeps that have problems oocly.

Fuck that shit. My main point is that I dislike people, because generally they're shit. And which is also why I approach strategy games peacefully, like CiV i always try to win without going to war, because that's more fun. You know, building a society that I want to live in and all that.

But on the otherhand, that's exactly why I like grimdark. (what a stupid name). Because it forces Compassion. It creates this dichotomy where you can either gloss over this shit, or force yourself to be compassionate in a place where frankly nobody is deserving of compassion.

Which is kinda the point. Compassion isn't about what someone deserves, or how he's worthy of it, or how he should prove to you that you owe him compassion. If we don't, it just means we're fucked.

in rosy fantasy land, the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad, and therefore we need to slay the bad guys. Just justifies all the bad shit we do to each other because they're bad. And for me that form op opinion making is toxic.

Which is also one of the reasons why I believe the Malazan tales of the fallen is one of the best Speculative works of fiction I've read.

It's easy to say, well grimdark is the place where we glorify violence and being horrid to each-other, but it's still worse than our actual world, and people that really glorify in just the violence part are missing the point.

But then again - we should all do whatever we feel comfortable with, and therefor we have the ability to just bow out of RP, and say screw this, i'm not having any part in this. And that's good. Infact that's excellent. Do what you find fun and what makes you happy, that's why we RP.

However completely vilifying the people that do those things in fucking Fiction that's just stupid.

Amaryl wrote:I personally dislike people that completely gloss over murder and genocide like it's no big deal when it comes to RP.

It fucking is - killing all the kobolds and stealing their candles means something. And as such I sometimes have a hard time understanding the ease with which people just say: Lol fantasy, but when it comes to other things they're like: aaah creeps that have problems oocly.

Fuck that shit. My main point is that I dislike people, because generally they're shit. And which is also why I approach strategy games peacefully, like CiV i always try to win without going to war, because that's more fun. You know, building a society that I want to live in and all that.

But on the otherhand, that's exactly why I like grimdark. (what a stupid name). Because it forces Compassion. It creates this dichotomy where you can either gloss over this shit, or force yourself to be compassionate in a place where frankly nobody is deserving of compassion.

Which is kinda the point. Compassion isn't about what someone deserves, or how he's worthy of it, or how he should prove to you that you owe him compassion. If we don't, it just means we're fucked.

in rosy fantasy land, the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad, and therefore we need to slay the bad guys. Just justifies all the bad shit we do to each other because they're bad. And for me that form op opinion making is toxic.

Which is also one of the reasons why I believe the Malazan tales of the fallen is one of the best Speculative works of fiction I've read.

It's easy to say, well grimdark is the place where we glorify violence and being horrid to each-other, but it's still worse than our actual world, and people that really glorify in just the violence part are missing the point.

But then again - we should all do whatever we feel comfortable with, and therefor we have the ability to just bow out of RP, and say screw this, i'm not having any part in this. And that's good. Infact that's excellent. Do what you find fun and what makes you happy, that's why we RP.

However completely vilifying the people that do those things in fucking Fiction that's just stupid.  

I can't agree more.

Though I must add-.. Don't forget the character itself. Morals differ per person. Even though you can be disgusted by the situation, what would your character do? If an actor is told to shoot someone, it's not like he'll bend the script to save that person just because he wants to. The character he plays has his own personality and motives. However, I've had situations which I avoided. And there is nothing wrong with doing so.

RP should remain something fun, it's not like we're getting paid for doing it.

RP should be enjoyable and give you something. It imo doesn't necessarily have to be "fun". If it had to be "fun" I'd never have played Muzjhath since most often it wasn't a fun experience. It was, however, a gainful one that forced me to think very not me.

Otherwise I eco Amaryls start. Killing and violence of non sexual natures in RP should be seen as abhorrent as rape. If you object to one you should imo object to the other for the same reasons.

I agree. What I find interesting is seeing how people justify things ICly. The war against the Horde, dor instance. It depresses me when people just say 'well we're at war so its fine' or similarly simplistic. It's a valid arguement, particularly in a world as unsophisticated morally as Azeroth sometimes seems to be.
It's a nice relief when someone cares about the lives of Tauren and Orcs as much as Humans, and even more so when they care about the Forsaken.

Let's not have a semantic discussion of fun. . We don't RP so that at the end of the day we can hate ourselves and feel miserable. Or if that's why you RP, I'm going to recommend you talk to someone since that seems unhealthy.

Fullfillment, enjoyment, escapism, fun, whatever.

Who said anyone's allowed to have fun? Stop it Amaryl. You know better than that.
(Edit: Also, I find the very notion of this thread hilarious. Not that I've payed any attention to it's content.)

I'm just sitting here, reading how everyone is utterly disgusted about forced sexual intercourse in RP and how they want to kill the person commiting the crime in the worst possible way, while me and my guild flayed a worgen yesterday before cutting his head off - and it was not done DM style. The worgen was an actual IC guild member who is now dead (He agreed on it).

But anyway, my point here being is that I find it a bit hard to understand how forcing sex on someone is worse than murder, torture, extreme blackmailing and bullying that comes from the criminal guilds and such.

I am aware that some people are just more vulnerable regarding these things, and I'm perfectly okay with that. Despite my sadistic game character and guild, I ALWAYS let potential recruits know what they're getting into and even them ask for permission just in case when things are bound to happen.

However, I still have the question burning inside of me: What makes rape so completely unacceptable among other deeds which I mentioned above?

I think this needs a change of topic before things become waaay too heated. Especially if we're getting into the rape discussions

Because people don't have a frame of reference when it comes to flaying worgen and cutting their heads off, but they have close-friends and family members that have been sexually assaulted and then it comes too close to home. It's not -That- hard to understand.

Amaryl wrote:Because people don't have a frame of reference when it comes to flaying worgen and cutting their heads off, but they have close-friends and family members that have been sexually assaulted and then it comes too close to home. It's not -That- hard to understand.

You nit-picked the worst out of example. I'm pretty sure though that there's definetly a number of people who have very bad experiences regarding murder, blackmail bullying or being ganged up on them and beaten up senseless.

Guess it falls down to each but I think I'd rather experience someone sexually forcing themselves on me or someone I know than to kill me/them, long term intimidate and bully to the point you might aswell off yourself because of the pressure or being ganged up upon and beaten up to the point of not being recognised anymore and dumped in a canal.

Right, I guess it's too much of a touchy subject for this thread. I made my point and I'll end it with this.

That's fine, the point i'm making isn't that you should agree, but that it isn't that hard to understand. And most of us don't want to be confronted with our emotional sore-spots in our escapist video-games.

Amaryl wrote:Because people don't have a frame of reference when it comes to flaying worgen and cutting their heads off, but they have close-friends and family members that have been sexually assaulted and then it comes too close to home. It's not -That- hard to understand.

Of course, and I don't think anybody is saying you shouldn't keep those things away from those people. I like grimdark (I hate the term too dw) RP exactly for the reasons you listed. It's not that I enjoy violence and love to watch people suffer. I've been part of RP that made my stomach clench as if its life depended on it. Just like some scenes in TV Shows make my toes curl. But while I don't enjoy the things that are happening, I enjoy experiencing the unpleasant parts of RP. Yes, it -should- be unpleasant. That's the entire appeal of it. And I've had plenty of people tell me that I was on my way to crossing their limits and I've never not respected that.

If one video game character gets sexually assaulted by another video game character in the thick of Duskwood while nobody else is watching, who gets hurt? Nobody does. And those two people might gain something from their RP, they might develop scars on their character that they're gonna enjoy playing out. Or they might just be horny and that kinda thing gets them off. Either way, they took it away from anybody who might be upset by it, so who is really in their right to judge?

And yes, torture and murder is just as severe as rape ICly. I understand that rape is a more widespread problem IRL and, again, I obviously would never force somebody to relive their trauma like that. But assuming I actually keep that rule, RPing torture or murder shouldn't be seen as less severe than RPing a sexual assault.

Grim wrote:Confession! Not just because of the RP argument above (lets face it, rape RP really is a bit weird) but joining these forums has put me off ever roleplaying Alliance side.
Maybe its just because Horde presence on these forums is so limited, but I've managed to stomach all the nasty people and drama I've encountered in the Horde RP scene...

IC laws seemingly more detailed than IRL laws, people constantly bitching at each other, stupid stupid character concepts, the never ending and utterly pointless arguments about criminal guilds versus law guilds (seriously, these arguments make me want to throttle every single one of you).
Many months ago I decided to bite the bullet and give Alliance RP a go, and within 5 minutes of finding roleplayers I found a scantily clad female gnome who's MRP said "is actually a 5 year old human girl" and I gave up a second later.

I know this is harsh, so I'll soften the blow slightly by saying that many Alliance roleplayers I've encountered myself IC and OOC, outside of these forums, has been excellent.
Maybe its mostly these forums being poison and bringing the worst out in people?

The Alliance is full of people who think the council actually means anything and try to impose it. From personal experience, I can also say it's full of people who go "I can do what I want because I RP for fun", which usually involves lorebreaking, power emoting, breaking the 4th wall to make 'funny' comments, etc. Now I know there must be those people on Horde, but holy fuck there's a lot on Alliance.

I'd say it's a matter of finding the right guild, but truth be told there isn't a guild pretentious enough on Alliance to deny the most annoying, destructive kind of people, and most guilds seem to go in a cycle of a new (or old returning) GM saying "I'll allow these people in the guild because it's unfair to judge" or something similar, and then down the line those people wear them down so much by simply existing until they give up completely and the guild flounders or dies.

The Band of the Brave is something you may consider, as I'm likely a lot more arrogant than you, but I very much like it there under Rinoi. Otherwise, stay Horde until someone makes an Alliance guild with a "No stupid people allowed" rule.

Lexgrad wrote:Well it is just RP really.  Violence against anyone is bad, being against children doesnt make it worse really, just our society makes us feel less about some than others.  

Morality is a hell of a lot more complex than just 'what society makes us feel'. Protection of innocence/children can be seen the world over, including in the animal kingdom, e.g. when a Gorilla protects a Human baby. Obviously, there's creatures/people that will kill young but it isn't society which dictates this. It's in our nature to empathise with defenceless things.


As for rape, it depends entirely on the context. Role-playing out the action is disturbing and doing it to strangers is far worse. If you're with a trusted friend and you're using it as a storytelling device, it's extremely powerful. For example, A character has been failing to seduce another and he grows angry. He pushes her to the ground and pins her down, but she manages to reach out to the nearest tankard and knock it over his head before slipping away from him and running. That's attempted rape and it also creates a HUGE amount of drama. But again, shouldn't be forced on a stranger.

Tbh Vaell I think you've hit the nail on the head of a part of why I and others have issue with it, any morality or personal distaste etc aside....it's fine for the victim and attacker in that scenario if they're down with it. But everyone else in that tavern will also have to react and be involved in some manner from that point on. Rape plots always draw in others and unless you have the courtesy to check with literally everybody involved it's very possible you'll stir up some very unpleasant emotions and memories.

For example...one time a while ago I was having a completely unrelated formal talk with Braiden on Kitt. In bursts a ranting Arathorian raving about how he hadn't sentenced somebody in particular harshly enough for rape....then going into graphic description of what had happened to the victim, how dare he, etc. Essentially hijacking the rp into somebody else's rape plot.

That's the issue, the ripple effect. It means people like myself who find rape plots HUGELY personally difficult to deal with come into contact with the threads of the plot including graphic content months afterwards. Unless you're extending some sort of 'are you okay with this sort of content' to anyone possibly involved it becomes a very nasty mess.

@Adry;
If we as a community decide to go along with the Council then it does mean something. It becomes an interesting part of server lore. All it takes is 51% of the Alliance community acknowledging the Council for it to mean something and be relatively hard to avoid around Stormwind. Personally I enjoy RPing within those confines, not because I want power over other RPers but because it puts me at the mercy of other people and creates a political atmosphere of vying for influence that otherwise wouldn't really exist. It adds to RP, in my opinion.

Secondly, I agree people need to be more cautious in recruitment and trial periods. There are lots of stupid people, and this attitude of 'who gets to judge what is good or bad RP, love everyone' annoys me. But we had this discussion a few days back. ^^