The Ordo Arcana: Instructors of Magical Practices and the Arcane Ways (new wizard's Guild)

[IC]:
Arcanists of Stormwind and the Alliance.
Too long have the people shunned the arcane arts because of fear and ignorance of that which they cannot comprehend and for too long have Wizards of Stormwind foremost been misstreated for accusations of corruption by ignorant individuals who know nothing of magic and it's nature for the deeds of warlocks, necromancers, and the evil ways of the dark arts, to whom you are of no associasion. Join in an effort to put aside this missguidance and share in the forming of a new institution of magic involving magical study, training of wizards and the banishment of the evil ways of demons and the unholy undead for your city and for your Alliance. Though magic can be harmful  and terrible in all it's Power, It can also bring about wonderful things. Thus we yearn to establish a balanced and stabilized use of magic to bring order where there is chaos and to defend the city of Stormind and the rest of the Alliance from the dark Powers that dwell as part of the supernatural. This is where the Ordo Arcana come in, a new order opening it's doors for spellcasters of any school of magic to study and recieve knowledge from the wise in the order. After recruitment, a test of abilities is to be required to gain access to the doors of the Tower Keep of Acrenor and it's great vault of knowledge, thus earning apprenticeship and in time full fledged wizardry or if this is already acomplished, a career of successful study and limitless potential in ways of politics and magical studies of the World. By the Word of Eldiros Almadros, Wizard of the Alliance cause and veteran of the great wars of the past, the doors of Acrenor and the Ordo Arcana opens Before you, Brothers and sisters of Magic...

- Eldiros Almadros, Archmage of the Ordo Arcana

[OOC]:
having found no Guild of real political Power in Stormwind City with the specialization of wizardry, (even though there might eb but I just have missed it perhaps), I have decided to create my own RP Guild to represent a wizard's Order. The Tower of Acrenor of which is spoken is located in Deadwind Pass by using the Area of karazhan (IC it's certainly not karazhan) though it is to the other side of the pass and also hidden by mists and the positions of the Mountains, (not that it is invisible, only that It won't be the first site you see when travellignt here IC). basicly i would welcome every spellcaster there is inot the order as long as they strive for wizardry and magical study (Mages and even Warlocks, though if I find out you practise fel, shadow or necromantic magic, I'll probably "deal" with you IC ) It will focus on Instructing students of the arcane as well as rooting out cults and the dark ways for swift trial and punishment. The order encourages every spellcaster of it's cause to break their limit of the magical studies and advance in their knowledge to serve as war wizards or instructors. This order will specialize it's activity in Stormwind in where it will dwell, (though the sanctuary is in fact in deadwind pass) I'd really appreciate any willing heart who would join me in this, in my opinion, awesome vision of a complex Wizard's Order. Feel free to Contact me about it OOC or IC, you decide, Thank you for your time everyone

It's good stuff, but I suggest you seperate some parts so it's easier to read and not possibly skip a line or two. ;P

Not sure what would druids and shamans have to do with the arcane though.

you are quite right in that stetement and probably that should eb changed now that I come to Think about it, though the original idea was merely that the order was to eb dominated by mages, even though other spellcasters are usually welcome

I don't think you realise what druids and shamans actually are....

They don't study like mages do. Nature casters are religious, they don't sit around reading tomes of power all day. They wouldn't fit in at all here.

Also, you won't get far proclaiming political power on your own. I've heard rumors that you claim to be the minister of magic and take it upon yourself to arrest anybody you think is a warlock. Protip: Stop doing that.

Actually I am Minister of Magic along with Kelly, we share the same position, ask anyone in the Stormwind Council and they will tell you I still am. Though I might possibly be deposed next week on tuesday, with the reforms of the Council and all. What evidence would you have of me lying? I was actually elected for that position IC by maelmoor. Also, I was basicly assaulted by a warlock if that's waht you are refferign to, only to then assist the guard in the matter. You come with accusations that are really without anything to support them. Please stop. No offense meant in any way with this reply. and also, I quickly realized my mistak about the druids etc and had it changed...

The druid thing was seriously a personal fault and I apologize for any inconveniance, though the rest of your criticism was really unncalled for as there is no ground to support it nor any reason why I would falsely claim myself to be what I claim to be. Once again, ask anyone who actually play as memebrs of the Stormwind Council and they will support what I just said...

No need to go super defensive, I'm not involved with the council so I wouldn't know. I just went by how you said your intention with this was to have a "politically influential mage guild", which sounded in line with what I'd heard went on.

Good luck with your mage guild.

Though I don't understand where you get the idea that mages are somehow discriminated against. They are respected and often influential members of the alliance, especially in human (and High Elf) culture.

erwtenpeller wrote:I don't understand where you get the idea that mages are somehow discriminated against. They are respected and often influential members of the alliance, especially in human (and High Elf) culture.

It's been a recurring thing in roleplay ever since the Chapter started copying their IC ideology wholesale from Warhammer 40k. I was pretty disappointed when I noticed it spreading to other Lightie-guilds.

Eldiros says it himself and is not ignorant of the Arcane being "clean and safe". The Church discriminates against the Arcane for obvious reasons.  (Look at the four laws written by mages and read the books written by mages) It has been quoted that Light followers believe Arcanists are eternally damned for using the magic. However their are Lighties that are more accepting of magics (the Argent Dawn) but they are deemed Heretics by the Church. Disciples of Light always follow the Church belief's, not server beliefs or beliefs of other Lightie guilds.

By other Lightie-guilds, I guess you are suggesting DoL. The Chapters influence hasn't left completely when they moved, some of it still remains. Especially the DoLers that Osmand manipulated.

Their are always Priests and Mages surrounding the king. Never Warlocks, DK's or Shadow Priests.

Rae Wulfgnar wrote: Never Warlocks, DK's or Shadow Priests.

Well in the books he had warlocks on his boats and ordered them around.
And I mean... Anduin aint exactly to shy about shadow.
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Rae Wulfgnar wrote:The Church discriminates against the Arcane for obvious reasons.

Cite your sources, instead of pointing at things that only highlight how mages know magic is dangerous.

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:It has been quoted that Light followers believe Arcanists are eternally damned for using the magic. However their are Lighties that are more accepting of magics (the Argent Dawn) but they are deemed Heretics by the Church.

Ahem:

According to Metzen, the Church of the Holy Light fully supports the Argent Crusade and hates the Scarlet Crusade.[11]

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erwtenpeller wrote:Good luck with your mage guild.

Though I don't understand where you get the idea that mages are somehow discriminated against. They are respected and often influential members of the alliance, especially in human (and High Elf) culture.

Yeah, they are discriminated against by Kaldorei but who cares about their opinions!

Sanara wrote:

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:The Church discriminates against the Arcane for obvious reasons.

Cite your sources, instead of pointing at things that only highlight how mages know magic is dangerous.

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:It has been quoted that Light followers believe Arcanists are eternally damned for using the magic. However their are Lighties that are more accepting of magics (the Argent Dawn) but they are deemed Heretics by the Church.

Ahem:

According to Metzen, the Church of the Holy Light fully supports the Argent Crusade and hates the Scarlet Crusade.[11]

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1. Because Mages communicate with the Alliance, so if Mages know and have written books then SURELY the Church knows?

2. I did not say they didn't support them (Argent Dawn). But they are considered heretics.

@Ralegh, It is known that Priests learn Shadow too. On wow's official thingy about Priests it states it.

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A: The Light is often said to bring about feelings of positive emotion -- hope, courage, comfort -- and the like. Shadow abilities are just the opposite, able to impart feelings like despair, doubt, and panic. In a poetic sense, it can be said that the emotions which the Light brings about come from the “heart,” whereas the emotions manipulated by shadow are often based on survival logic, and therefore affect the “mind.” That said, priests and their abilities are not necessarily always psychic or telepathic in nature.

Mages have written books on the damning nature of fel magic, there has been little to nothing written that directly opposes shadow magic. The only suggestion of opposition to shadow magic is the banning of necromancy, however we also know for a fact that necromancy incorporates both fel and shadow, so it would be natural to assume it is in fact the demonic energy at play that is the taboo part.

On the whole, I really think "shadow is bad and should feel bad" is really overdone on this server. Of course it should be considered suspect and shadowcasters are likely not to be trusted (unless they're the balance between Light and Shadow kind, i.e. Draenei priests), but there is nowhere in the lore that explicitly says shadow is bad. Heck, we even see people like Anduin using it openly and getting nothing more than a "D'ohoh, Anduin you so silly" from the SI:7 agents accompanying him. Isn't that a good indication of the attitude in the lore?

As for the negative attitude towards arcanists on the whole, while I do appreciate this in small zealous burts, it's growing rather tiring. As far as I'm aware, the only basis for this other than the corrupting nature of magic itself (which is honestly nothing to do with the Church, that would only ever be a concern for mages imo), is a piece of writing of Northshire from WC1 times stating "all who practice the arcane shall be damned to eternal suffering". I don't remember where I saw this, but I'll go trawl through old stuff to find it after this post and edit it with a citation. We must remember that in that time, the Light was also referred to as God, so lore that old should be taken with a pinch of salt at best.

Edit: "A paladin had indicated to Rhonin that he believed that, after death, the mage's soul would condemned to the same pit of darknes shared by the mythical demons of old. This no matter how pure Rhonin's soul might have been otherwise."DotD 19...a damned soul...devilish kind... --[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is natural to assume that this was retconned along with the other references to Hell.

Adry wrote:Mages have written books on the damning nature of fel magic, there has been little to nothing written that directly opposes shadow magic. The only suggestion of opposition to shadow magic is the banning of necromancy, however we also know for a fact that necromancy incorporates both fel and shadow, so it would be natural to assume it is in fact the demonic energy at play that is the taboo part.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (It is not fel)

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Adry wrote:Edit: "A paladin had indicated to Rhonin that he believed that, after death, the mage's soul would condemned to the same pit of darknes shared by the mythical demons of old. This no matter how pure Rhonin's soul might have been otherwise."DotD 19...a damned soul...devilish kind... --[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is natural to assume that this was retconned along with the other references to Hell.

I don't think it necessarily needs to be considered 'retconned', as I've read that book myself - I find it entirely plausible that a Paladin may believe such a thing, but I don't think it is what "The Church" thinks.

I also think it's bloody arrogant to declare things on behalf of an NPC organization without providing any sources to back it up. With evidence this flimsy I could as well, I dunno, declare that Draenei Priestesses also double as sexual courtesans because Ishanah wears a dress with an exposed midriff. Maybe a strawman argument, but it feels about as logical, to me.

Edit:

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:

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Seemingly written by a crazy person, with no indication of any religious sentiment.

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:

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Written by a Night Elf Druid.

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:

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That one, uh... doesn't actually say anything at all about corruption, and seems more like a propoganda leaflet in favour of mages.

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (It is not fel)

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The first book is propaganda (likely Scarlet, though on that note the Scarlets, the most zealous group around, have Mages under their own employ) with little actual basis.

The second book refers mainly to what COULD happen and not to any specific dangers of magic. Arguably the most dangerous use of magic is that it can attract demons to the planet (which really, is old news). It is well worthy of note that the book is in Dalaran, and is not some Church book.

The necromancy book never makes mention of what necromancy is at its essence, I don't understand why you linked that. We know that Gul'dan as a Warlock was the first necromancer, and it is common consensus that he conducted his necromancy through a mix of fel and shadow.

As for the fourth book... that doesn't even appear to relate to the subject at hand whatsoever.

Sanara wrote:I don't think it necessarily needs to be considered 'retconned', as I've read that book myself - I find it entirely plausible that a Paladin may believe such a thing, but I don't think it is what "The Church" thinks.

I also think it's bloody arrogant to declare things on behalf of an NPC organization without providing any sources to back it up. With evidence this flimsy I could as well, I dunno, declare that Draenei Priestesses also double as sexual courtesans because Ishanah wears a dress with an exposed midriff. Maybe a strawman argument, but it feels about as logical, to me.

I couldn't agree more. The Church itself has never to our knowledge made explicit any distrust of mages, and in the first war the Northshire clerics even worked very closely alongside mages. While I do approve of a few select people being so zealous about the arcane and its corruptive powers and its evils etc, there is no basis whatsoever to suggest that this is in fact the general consensus of the Church of the Holy Light.

Are you saying that because a female exposes a midriff that makes them sexual courtesans? Even though 90% of the female armour is very revealing.

@ Adry, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you assuming the Church is oblivious to what Arcane is? Even though Mages and Priests are close allies? I think the Kel'thuzzad stories would say otherwise. Or are we disregarding lore history even though it changes..

Are you really saying that, lorewise, Church trusts mages completely? I'm not sure what you are arguing. Whether I'm wrong with what I say or whether the lore is wrong that I'm linking?

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:Are you saying that because a female exposes a midriff that makes them sexual courtesans? Even though 90% of the female armour is very revealing.

This has nothing to do with the matter at hand, just ignore Sanara's detractions like everyone else does (sorry Sanara).

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you assuming the Church is oblivious to what Arcane is? Even though Mages and Priests are close allies? I think the Kel'thuzzad stories would say otherwise. Or are we disregarding lore history even though it changes..

I'm not assuming the Church is oblivious at all. My point is simply that they have never expressed any explicit hatred or even distrust of the arcane, and to inferr that into your RP is very bold. I can understand player-made organizations (i.e. the Disciples) taking their own viewpoint, but to decide the viewpoint of an NPC organization even though said viewpoint is never reinforced in the actual lore is a step too far. Additionally, Kel'thuzad was outcast by Dalaran. What does that have to do with the Church?

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:Are you really saying that, lorewise, Church trusts mages completely? I'm not sure what you are arguing. Whether I'm wrong with what I say or whether the lore is wrong that I'm linking?

The lore you're linking either doesn't support your point or has nothing to do with the topic...

"A sigh. “I am aware that you spend most of your time in the north these days. Your increasingly lengthy absences were what caught my attention in the first place. Yet even you must have heard that the king’s new tax has given rise to civil unrest. Your selfish pursuit of power could incite the peasantry to revolt. Lordaeron would be engulfed in civil war.”

He hadn’t known about the tax. Antonidas must be exaggerating. Besides, true magi would focus on matters of greater substance. “I will be more discreet,” he offered, gritting his teeth.

“No amount of discretion could possibly hide a secret of this magnitude,” said Drenden.

Modera added, “You know that we have always walked a fine line in order to protect our people without becoming a danger ourselves. We dare not sacrifice our humanity--not in appearance, and certainly not in truth. At best, your methods would see us condemned as heretics.”

It was too much. “We’ve been called heretics for centuries. The church has never been fond of our methods. Such sentiments notwithstanding, we are still here.”" And the source for this lovely tidbit is the story of Kel'thuzzad in the Road to Damnation.

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Adry wrote:

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:Are you saying that because a female exposes a midriff that makes them sexual courtesans? Even though 90% of the female armour is very revealing.

This has nothing to do with the matter at hand, just ignore Sanara's detractions like everyone else does (sorry Sanara).

It's just to illustrate a point, that you can take an unrelated tidbit of information and elaborate on it in pretty much any way you please, to then pass off as 'evidence'. No, I am pretty much 100% convinced Ishanah is not in fact a courtesan, but one Paladin not liking Mages equalling the Church being anti-Mage is the same kind of wild leap in logic.

Burgen wrote:"A sigh. “I am aware that you spend most of your time in the north these days. Your increasingly lengthy absences were what caught my attention in the first place. Yet even you must have heard that the king’s new tax has given rise to civil unrest. Your selfish pursuit of power could incite the peasantry to revolt. Lordaeron would be engulfed in civil war.”

He hadn’t known about the tax. Antonidas must be exaggerating. Besides, true magi would focus on matters of greater substance. “I will be more discreet,” he offered, gritting his teeth.

“No amount of discretion could possibly hide a secret of this magnitude,” said Drenden.

Modera added, “You know that we have always walked a fine line in order to protect our people without becoming a danger ourselves. We dare not sacrifice our humanity--not in appearance, and certainly not in truth. At best, your methods would see us condemned as heretics.”

It was too much. “We’ve been called heretics for centuries. The church has never been fond of our methods. Such sentiments notwithstanding, we are still here.”" And the source for this lovely tidbit is the story of Kel'thuzzad in the Road to Damnation.

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Once again this does not imply that the Church of the Holy Light itself condemns magic. It simply implies that mages have been labelled as heretics, likely by extremists. With no direct reference to the Church of the Holy Light, nor to Northshire, nor to any of the organizations that are being inferred as "anti-Mage", it can't be used as evidence to back up that point.

Additionally, Modera's words are very striking. "At best, your methods would see us condemned as heretics." The way this is worded heavily implies that they are not already branded as heretics by general consensus.

Adry wrote:

Rae Wulfgnar wrote:I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you assuming the Church is oblivious to what Arcane is? Even though Mages and Priests are close allies? I think the Kel'thuzzad stories would say otherwise. Or are we disregarding lore history even though it changes..

I'm not assuming the Church is oblivious at all. My point is simply that they have never expressed any explicit hatred or even distrust of the arcane, and to inferr that into your RP is very bold. I can understand player-made organizations (i.e. the Disciples) taking their own viewpoint, but to decide the viewpoint of an NPC organization even though said viewpoint is never reinforced in the actual lore is a step too far. Additionally, Kel'thuzad was outcast by Dalaran. What does that have to do with the Church?

The Disciples do a ton of research and keep up to date with the Church and its NPC's as closely as possible. Some of our characters may become zealous due to IC events that have caused great murder or distress (for example, the Black Hand murdering hundreds and dropping bodies) otherwise we follow the Church's beliefs as closely as possible.

The lore you're linking either doesn't support your point or has nothing to do with the topic...

I'm arguing that Arcane is corruptive and the Lighties distrust it for obvious reasons. That is all, linking things to state that it is INDEED corruptive and us Lightdogs don't just make this up and chase you lot for no reason. Due to IC events, my Paladin hates Mages. I don't know any-one else in DoL who discriminates them so mercilessly.