IC Stealth - suggestions

First off: This thread is not about deciding whether or not IC Stealth mode is a thing. It's there, in our faces, in the gameplay, at the very core of a class, so it is there. If you disagree with that, I don't think this thread is for you.

Cutting to the chase, however, I've decided to gradually teach my rogue character this ability. Not for über cool overpowered ninja combat advantages, but for other non-lethal purposes, like getting to meetings unseen, disappearing when danger rears its ugly head and so on. Going by the gameplay of the rogue class, I think it'd be more appropiate for this level of stealth (complete invisibilty) to be due to magic or supernatural artifacts (The One Ring to hide from them ALL), rather than just being a sneaky fellow.

So my question: How would you do the whole magic invisibilty thing? What schools of magic would you assume were used? Why on earth are rogues actually better at this kind of magic than the mages are? What limits (other than closed doors and antimagic fields) would you assume there'd be?

Looking forwards to all input! Long live the actual high magic setting we RP in!

Edit: Got no idea where this thread belongs, but decided to go for this subforum as it adresses IC use of Game Related stuff, and while it is (hopefully) the start of a discussion related to RP that is not RP in itself, it's not really looking for RP either. Also, Game Related is kind of more of a "General chat, but about Blizzard"-forum these days. So plz forgief me if this isn't where you'd prefer to see it

There are several examples of Rogues using shadow magic, as shown by both NPCs and player skills. As a matter of fact the majority of classes use some sort of magic.
It's simple, you use shadow magic to fade out.

A popular alternative for Orcs are the elements, so called wind walking.

Well gnome, Helmut, is a terribly weak fighter so I've always played him as that kind of guy who runs away or stays in the distance. And being a gnome and techgeek I've granted him with a "Gyrochormatic invisibility engine", a cloaking device, that makes him vanish into the thin air, or atleast appear so.

If you want to look into "stealthy invisiblity magic" then shadowmagic might be the way to go. But there are countless of "IC ways" to justify your invisibility.

Game Related section is where you'd have wanted to post this. That section of the forums is intended for OOC discussion of ingame and roleplaying things in general.

Like Helmut and Gor'thak explained, such invisibility can be explained in multiple ways. Invisibility generators, elemental assistance for Wind Walking, Shadow Magic, or something completely different.

Now why are Rogues best in that kind of magic? It comes with their job. Their thing is to go unseen. They are assassins, thieves, spies, infiltrators. A Mage is more concerned into blasting, freezing or otherwise clearing their way with their mastery over magic. They have no need for subtlety, in most cases.

The most traditional route i would think based on the magic-school of most Rogue magical abilities would be Shadow Magic in terms of minor mysticism. A Rogue is likely to find themselves work closely to the shadows, in the shadow of the buildings, dark alleys, during the night. In a high-fantasy setting as Warcraft where magic is literally floating in the air, i do not see it impossible or even unlikely for a Rogue to try bond with the shadow that already grant them cover, learning to bend the Shadows to their side through meditation or other mental training.

Speaking of limits, there are characters and magical abilities to detect stealth and invisibility. All the officers/thief catchers/hunters patrolling around Major Cities for example, or other kinds of wards. Taking such abilities into account when you try to sneak in roleplaying behind other player characters would be advised.

No magic is foolproof, so you might want to approach the targets from behind when getting close. Otherwise the other may actually notice something, be it a shadow without a body, a scent, a blurred image or something else - just like you can see stealthed people if they go from in front of you.

Other than that, you can come up your own limitations. In case of Wind Walking, i'd imagine it being impossible underwater or regions where there is no Air or Wind to the matter. In case of Shadow Magic, it might require more energy to remain invisible the more light there is. Standing in the middle of a desert when it is day would be very likely to drain your batteries quickly.

Just a few thoughts and suggestions. You're welcome to do what you wish and come up your own rules, whatever works. I do not know which faction you play on, but if on Alliance, i do have a Mage-Rogue hybrid character around who probably wouldn't mind teaching or helping your character to the start.

Pretty much this! One could argue arcane as well since mages use "Invisibility".

One problem with a magic used stealth is that one could possibly just try and sense your aura then, maybe!

Lots of fun ways stealth/invisibility can be used. One could possibly "cloak themselves" with the shadows. Using magical items would surely be something a lot of Rogue/Assassain types would use.

One thing is like the Ability Shadowblades it's purpuse is for your autoattacks to ignore armor, basically making your autoattack shadow damage. One could possibly then use such to cloak himself fully and go trough a wall or something of course things can drain your energy a lot (Saying since Rogues use energy mechanic wise) and "Or" cooldowns.

Shadowstep and Killing spree are things used to "Step trough the shadows", but they got cooldowns as far as mechanics go. Same would apply IC probably and fun to use!

Shadow Magic in terms of minor mysticism.

This as far as school goes, to be fair arcane wouldn't be far too off either.

Also a so far WoD 100 talent for rogues if you want to find creative ways of doing things as well check out shadow reflection, one can easily tweek it to have IC evading uses: http://www.wowhead.com/talent-wod#r1

Edit: The school of Illusion could come to mind just as well. Can me arcane to make you look like you're a shadow or melded into them, who knows! As most said many ways of doing things.

I used to hate IC stealth with a passion, and in a way I still do. My rogue is a shadow caster and specialise in shadow magic.

She can only stay stealthed for 5-15 minutes, depending on her own strength, and I step out of stealth to emote that there is a shadow presance for those who can sense such, and from what direction it comes. That way I give it room so everyone can react to me being there if their char can ICly sense it.

Remember when you are in stealth, people cannot see your /e /s or /y unless they see you or are in party with you.

Thanks, people.

I will keep all this in mind when proceeding. Might poke you if I see you online, Skarain. Will probably start contacting the various magic shops/tech shops too.

Simaria wrote:
Remember when you are in stealth, people cannot see your /e /s or /y unless they see you or are in party with you.

They can't? When did that happen?

Paia/Jenit wrote:

Simaria wrote:
Remember when you are in stealth, people cannot see your /e /s or /y unless they see you or are in party with you.

They can't? When did that happen?

It's been that way for quite a while, I think.

As my Orc is a Blademaster IC I had to figure out a realistic way to 'Wind-walk' early on.

I essentially just use invisiblity potions, but only ever use it in the sense of flashy entrances or exits...

/me dissapears into thin air as a strong gust of wind passes over...

I've never used it as a method of attack or self defence before, and base the idea of it being that the elemental spirit of air 'shrouds' you from view for a short time, a sort of elemental cloaking device.

I agree with what Skarain said in terms of magic, that rogues more or less manipulate or bend shadows to conceal them or just simply blend with them, because they're not completely invisible imo (going by in game mechanics you can see a rogue stealthing if you approach them closely enough).
The other side of the coin is also considering illusionism, since dispersing like so could fall under jurisdiction of an illusion. Whenever I've rp'd my illusionist Alorah disappearing all together it's more like a fast paced camouflage like a chameleon, blending into all the shades, tones and colours of your surroundings, similarly to shadow-melding, but with except not with shadows.

So there's always that, but that's just how I've done it. As for my actual rogue I don't think she has the ability to stealth since I see it as a magic based thing, and Zalissa is an illiterate moron. I just max out the speed bonus in exchange.

When I stealth with Copper I become an old god of the shadow world that bend the reality to my will. It's in fact not that I become invisible, it's just that everyone's minds are so baffled by my existence that their brain end up going negative about seeing it. I am there, but their brains just can't comprehend it, so they don't see me.

Spoiler:

... Yeah.

Berahnek wrote:Might poke you if I see you online, Skarain.

See my signature for my active characters. Remember the accent marks.

I think stealth as a mechanic (doesn't cancel itself) is just to represent stealthy movement.  Which I wouldn't press the stealth button for.  If you want to RP using stealth as magic as a rogue, I'd say a cloak of shadows thing: takes a huge toll on you to keep going (i.e. can't sit watching a meeting for half an hour), you're practically in the shadow realm, etc.  I detest stealth as a "thing" IC in general.

Simaria covered some of my own peeves but I'll repeat them for the sake of sane RP.

If you're going to use it for god's sakes please remember to emote that you're there, in stealth, with a shadow presence etc, OUT OF STEALTH (for ANYONE reading the thread; you can't see emotes from a stealthed person not in your party and not visible to you), so that those with the capacity to sense life or shadow, or smell your presence, etc., can do so.  It also means that stealth in places of Light, around moonwells, etc, is pretty much a no-go.  I hate when it was abused.  I've had incidents where 2-3 rogues were watching RP, ICly, but none knew the others were there despite all being shadow-users who'd sense shadow, "because game mechanics."  Eugh.

Trolls might use blessings of Loa to stealth!

Perhaps a better question to ask is how to treat spotting fairly. Stealth is pretty easy to manage: you simply press the button and you're stealthed. It's the spotting that has proven difficult. Some players argue that their characters are better at spotting and should be able to see trough this or that particular instance trough stealth; yet, their claims, more often than not, not backed up my game mechanics.

I've seen this lead this to a lot of arguments. People can feel bypassed when you're stealthing around without consulting them - they might see it as a form of godmoting, if you don't give them the chance to see trough your stealth, since it can possibly ignore some traits that are important for their character, such as being observant ('observant' is one of the traits you often see people put in their role-play descriptions - try to take notice of these and use them in your stealth RP!)

My advice to avoid drama when it comes to this particular issue is to politely OOC announce your presence to everyone trough whispers when you start skulking around. Then the ball is in the court of the players being snooped on: they can either decide to hear 'something' and be on their guard, or outright fail to notice you all-together, yet OOCly feel the suspense of knowing they're being watched.

*Scrolls up*

*Blushes*

So yeah, basicly exactly what Feral said! Communication is key. Bonus points if you do it semi-OOC. I once squeed a little when I had a rogue whisper me with something like "You have the feeling you are being watched". I who'd that motherfucker like you wouldn't believe and I had chill run down my spine when I found out it was a rogue! That kind of paranoia can add a lot of tension to your play - and if stealth isn't adding tension what even is the point of using it in the first place? That's the irony of stealth - you want people to know that their characters are not seeing yours, otherwise you might as well not even be there in the first place.

Also, obligatory:

Actually i disagree completely. It's in the game, sure. But it's absolutely unfair. I'd like to believe that everyone has the chance to be stealthy, if you're a plated two meter tall orc, you're obviousely gonna have a hard time with it. However, using shadow magic? Mmm, i honestly don't buy it. So -personally- i always/mostly don't use stealth if i wanna be stalking someone, i do however whisper them i'm stalking/spying on, that she's hiding pretty well, so they'd have to see me head on, and not just my name tag. That's my personal opionion. If you've gotten the ability to use shadow magic in-characterly, i can go with that, however if you just go ahead and have it without actually roleplaying the training, i don't quite buy it, and i'd call it a cheap way to get some infomation you want.

As for a combat advantage? Sure! Why not, but it's very rare i actually use emotes in my roleplay, as we don't really do that in the red blades. So that i accept fully hearted. Good thread btw.

I like when people are in stealth and I can actually see them, but then they are like: Noooo i'm stealthed!

or when you hear the "Swoosh" sound and you know someone is stealthed, and you go: I think some-one's here. then you get a whisper: Noooo i'm stealthed!

But on the other-hand Amaryl rarely cares about secrecy, when spilling non-vital information. and when there is a special plan, she just doesn't tell anyone about it, bar the people needing to do specific actions. and if she's overheard she's overheard. but with stealth, eye of killrog, mindvision, farseeing she has given up on the idea of secrecy. if its secret, someone other will probably find out anyway, so if you reveal it, better make sure that nothing can be done to stop the plan from happening.

And Djego he just goes: Waaa! That is awesome! Extra-ordinairy! Want to join the CutThroat-Alley Lads, we could definitely jam together.

So.. We're at a liberty to let loose that amaryl does dogging on the weekends due to the stress of her military life, right?

Isn't "being able to sence/see/hear you with my super powers" just as bad as staying in stealth without letting people know, if not worse?

I think that if you wanna do spying in full stealth you should always inform that you are there. If the situation goes into that other RPer wants so see you, i find there two possible decisions. Go visible or run away in hidden. Leave the rp but not give up your IC identity or stay and see how others will react.
If rogue just stays stealth and plays god i'd just consider him OOC.

So long as there's decent ooc communication and nobody feels like the other party's wrangling unfair ooc advantages, it can work in any of the ways people have described, magic, illusion, plain-old-hiding in dark places.

But I've seen bad behaviour going both ways, for every super-invisible-ninja there's a guard with spider senses and the ears of a fennec fox.



Your breathing? He heard that.

It just comes down to the one prime rule of RP: Don't Be a Dick.

That fox is adorable!

I want to role-play one -

Wait, that makes me a furry, doesn't it?

Argh!

Thelos wrote:That fox is adorable!

I want to role-play one -

Wait, that makes me a furry, doesn't it?

Argh!

You already have an anthropomorphic panda OC. I've already see you as a furry, you dirty, disgusting pervert...

My god. I've been a furrie all this time without even knowing it!

Welp, I guess I better start watching My Little Pony, too.